A simple case for intelligent design

[ecco]

I've named the 66 books of the Bible, written by 40 authors over 1,500 years--all testifying to Jehovah God and His Son.

You want to believe a Moses wrote Genesis.
You want to believe a Matthew write the first book in the NT.

The problem is that there is absolutely nothing to justify your belief. Biblical scholars, Hebrew and Christian, disagree with your and your beliefs. There is nothing outside of the bible that validates anything in the bible. There is much outside the bible that invalidates it.

The only thing that justifies your belief system is your indoctrination and outdated and/or fraudulent scholarship.

Please review human history and tell me they are "insignificant" (rolls eyes).

Yes, it became significant. But maybe, you should ask yourself why. Most of the early Christians realized it was important for their new religion to attract as many people as possible. They courted pagans by keeping their holidays. They courted Hebrews by suggesting that Jesus was their prophesied Messiah. It worked back then for a few.

The main reason that Christianity flourished is that the guy who was in charge of all of Rome said Christianity was an approved religion.

Over the past century, Islam has also become significant. Are you a supporter of Allah also?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

When I look around the world with no theist injecting their God babble into government, I will. Santa believers are not trying to inject the naughty and nice list into the criminal code.

Except you have the criminal code precisely because thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal. The first criminal code....

Without some Christians in the government trying to keep the peace we would be at war every 5 minutes.... What with evolutionists injecting their false babble into the government of survival of the fittest. After all, we are just animals right, and so slaughtering a few million won't matter much to the evolutionary scheme.... Cull the herd.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You want to believe a Moses wrote Genesis.
You want to believe a Matthew write the first book in the NT.

The problem is that there is absolutely nothing to justify your belief. Biblical scholars, Hebrew and Christian, disagree with your and your beliefs. There is nothing outside of the bible that validates anything in the bible. There is much outside the bible that invalidates it.

The only thing that justifies your belief system is your indoctrination and outdated and/or fraudulent scholarship.






Yes, it became significant. But maybe, you should ask yourself why. Most of the early Christians realized it was important for their new religion to attract as many people as possible. They courted pagans by keeping their holidays. They courted Hebrews by suggesting that Jesus was their prophesied Messiah. It worked back then for a few.

The main reason that Christianity flourished is that the guy who was in charge of all of Rome said Christianity was an approved religion.

Over the past century, Islam has also become significant. Are you a supporter of Allah also?

It became significant because people were eyewitnesses...... That's why they willingly laid down their lives...

Christianity flourished because those eyewitnesses saw what they saw and people saw them give up their lives instead of recant to false gods.....

How much do you believe your theory? Enough that if evolutionists came under persecution that you would lay down your life for it????? I doubt it, because you have never witnessed it nor know anybody who ever has....

 

[ecco]

Except you have the criminal code precisely because thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal. The first criminal code....

For tens of thousands of years, long before the old stories were written down, humans lived in civilized communities. They learned that it rarely makes sense to murder one of their own tribe. Throughout nature, animals seldom kill a member of their own group.

Perhaps you believe that there was a chimp Moses and an antelope Moses.

 

[ecco]

Without some Christians in the government trying to keep the peace we would be at war every 5 minutes.... What with evolutionists injecting their false babble into the government of survival of the fittest. After all, we are just animals right, and so slaughtering a few million won't matter much to the evolutionary scheme.... Cull the herd.....

Did Christian George Bush invade Iraq in order to further the evil ideas of evolution?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

For tens of thousands of years, long before the old stories were written down, humans lived in civilized communities. They learned that it rarely makes sense to murder one of their own tribe. Throughout nature, animals seldom kill a member of their own group.

Perhaps you believe that there was a chimp Moses and an antelope Moses.

Yes, they learned it from the story of Cain and Abel passed down to them by word of mouth and the laws that followed. Moses was just the first to codify them....

Which would then show that we are not animals, since we kill each other randomly and for no other purpose than fun sometimes.....
You see, you want us to be nothing but evolved animals, but we never acted like them from our first breath. One might say we were devolved, since even animals are smart enough not to kill their own.....

 

[Ajarn]

Perhaps a God created all with the big bang, that was his method.

 

[ecco]

It became significant because people were eyewitnesses...... That's why they willingly laid down their lives...

Who were these eyewitnesses? What evidence do you have that they were eyewitnesses?

Christianity flourished because those eyewitnesses saw what they saw and people saw them give up their lives instead of recant to false gods.....

Wrong. Christianity muddled along until Emporer Constantine, 300 years later, had a vision and allowed Christianity to flourish.

BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Christianity and the Roman Empire

How much do you believe your theory? Enough that if evolutionists came under persecution that you would lay down your life for it????? I doubt it, because you have never witnessed it nor know anybody who ever has....

What a nonsensical comment.

The founder of your branch of Christianity (Martin Luther) ostracized Jews long before Darwin existed.
The Christians who led the inquisitions tortured and killed Jews long before Darwin existed.
The Christians who led the European witchhunts did so long before Darwin.
The European Protestants and Catholics who killed each other for hundreds of years had no knowledge of evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Except you have the criminal code precisely because thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal. The first criminal code....

Without some Christians in the government trying to keep the peace we would be at war every 5 minutes.... What with evolutionists injecting their false babble into the government of survival of the fittest. After all, we are just animals right, and so slaughtering a few million won't matter much to the evolutionary scheme.... Cull the herd.....

No, there are criminal codes that predate those found in the Bible.

And you really should try to understand what you are debating against.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, they learned it from the story of Cain and Abel passed down to them by word of mouth and the laws that followed. Moses was just the first to codify them....

Which would then show that we are not animals, since we kill each other randomly and for no other purpose than fun sometimes.....
You see, you want us to be nothing but evolved animals, but we never acted like them from our first breath. One might say we were devolved, since even animals are smart enough not to kill their own.....

Moses was fictional. As were Cain and Abel, though one could learn from the story.

 

[Polymath257]

Except you have the criminal code precisely because thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal. The first criminal code....

Was *long* before anything in the Bible.

Without some Christians in the government trying to keep the peace we would be at war every 5 minutes....

Hmmm...it seems the Christians have been the ones keeping us in wars.

What with evolutionists injecting their false babble into the government of survival of the fittest. After all, we are just animals right, and so slaughtering a few million won't matter much to the evolutionary scheme.... Cull the herd.....

Your understanding of humanism is as bad as your understanding of evolution and cosmology.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, they learned it from the story of Cain and Abel passed down to them by word of mouth and the laws that followed. Moses was just the first to codify them....

Hardly. Hammurabi was prior to the mythical Moses.

Which would then show that we are not animals, since we kill each other randomly and for no other purpose than fun sometimes.....

One of the more amusing arguments I've heard, I have to admit.

You see, you want us to be nothing but evolved animals, but we never acted like them from our first breath. One might say we were devolved, since even animals are smart enough not to kill their own.....

We are great apes. Other great apes conduct wars and kill members of their tribe.

 

[Bear Wild]

I did, now explain why each of you as skeptics goalpost shift constantly here, from "there are countless (for practical purposes) genetic differences in the 1% difference between humans and chimps, but all those genetic changes, even though there's not time for them to occur, are irrelevant for speciation". I call baloney.

But there is more than enough time if you understand genetics. There are multiple ways that genes increase variation and already proof that some small changes in control genes have large effects. The differences have been explained in multiple research papers. You can call science baloney all you want but if science is baloney then that makes unproven claims from the bible as pure fantasy.

 

[ecco]

Yes, they learned it from the story of Cain and Abel passed down to them by word of mouth and the laws that followed. Moses was just the first to codify them....

What, exactly, would people learn from the story of Cain and Abel?

Today's Christians favor the death penalty. Cain was forbidden to plow the fields. Big deal. He just went elsewhere and found a long lost sister whom he married. Not much of a punishment.

Which would then show that we are not animals, since we kill each other randomly and for no other purpose than fun sometimes.....
You see, you want us to be nothing but evolved animals, but we never acted like them from our first breath.

Yeah. If you want to talk religion - OK. But if you want to discuss evolution you cannot use silly terms like "first breath".

One might say we were devolved, since even animals are smart enough not to kill their own.....

Natural evolution does not necessarily make newer species more docile than their ancestors. In any case, by and large, humans kill off members of other tribes more so than within their own. Your Martin Luther was a proponent of that.

 

[tas8831]

Except you have the criminal code precisely because thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal. The first criminal code....

The 'first' one, eh? You really think that there were no civilizations that had restrictions against killing and stealing prior to the the fabrication of the bible tales?
Amazing.

Without some Christians in the government trying to keep the peace we would be at war every 5 minutes...

Can you name 5? All of the supposed Christians in government that I am aware of seem to want to bomb someplace every few days.

What with evolutionists injecting their false babble into the government of survival of the fittest.

All these years of 'debate' and you still do not understand what 'survival of the fittest' actually means.
Well, I shouldn't be surprised, seeing as how you thought allele was spelled "allie" until I corrected you about 20 times, and you think alleles form during reproduction, and you think that all new 'races' and species are formed via hybridization yet deny that new alleles are required for variation, etc., etc., etc.

After all, we are just animals right, and so slaughtering a few million won't matter much to the evolutionary scheme.... Cull the herd.....

See above.

Pity that you seem immune to learning after your errors are repeatedly corrected.

 

[tas8831]

It became significant because people were eyewitnesses...... That's why they willingly laid down their lives...

Christianity flourished because those eyewitnesses saw what they saw and people saw them give up their lives instead of recant to false gods.....

How much do you believe your theory? Enough that if evolutionists came under persecution that you would lay down your life for it????? I doubt it, because you have never witnessed it nor know anybody who ever has....

These are stupid arguments. Because some ancient middle eastern slave-class nomads were dumb enough to die for a myth does not make the myth true. Of course, they were even more willing to kill for their myths, so there is that you ignored.

What is next? the 'argument from embarrassment'?

 

[tas8831]

Can you give a specific example of two species, showing speciation between families?

Do you really think that speciation would produce a taxon from one family that now belongs to another?

You're kidding, yes?

 

[tas8831]

I did, now explain why each of you as skeptics goalpost shift constantly here

How did the appendix evolved 30 times?
I mean, how did the appendix evolve 30 times AND how did the control mechanisms for releasing bacteria evolve at the same time?
I mean how did the appendix evolve 30 times AND how did the control mechanisms for releasing bacteria AND the enzymes AND the means of catalyzing AND the neurological control ALL evolve simulataneously?

Yup...

, from "there are countless (for practical purposes) genetic differences in the 1% difference between humans and chimps, but all those genetic changes, even though there's not time for them to occur, are irrelevant for speciation". I call baloney.

I call baloney on your presentation of what skeptics think and claim.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you know how the telomeres are related to longetivity and survivability? Every time a cell divides, the telomeres shorten a bit. Once they are too short, the cell is prevented from dividing.

So, longer telomeres allows for more cell divisions. This is potentially bad because the problem of cancer cells is that they don't stop dividing when they should. The telomeres are thereby a protection against some cancers.

On the other hand, if cells can't divide, they age and the result is a host of issues we identify as old age. So, potentially, making the telomers NOT shorten would lead to a longer life span.

Now, given this, what is the effect of that 10,000 base pair difference in the telomeres? How many cell divisions are typically done and how much does that affect the telomeres? How long are the telomeres in other species? Does that 10,000 base pairs represent a significant difference given the biological function?

See responses to Dan from Smithville elsewhere.

 

[BilliardsBall]

When I look around the world with no theist injecting their God babble into government, I will. Santa believers are not trying to inject the naughty and nice list into the criminal code.

And there we have it!

The church and government are powerful institutions--government on its own seeks power, I believe in limited government. I also understand that absolute morals come from the church.

We can start with abortion, I have a dollar that says you are fine with the current genocide on babies. This has to be stopped "in the criminal/legal code" as you wrote!