A quote I found

[VoidCat]

"Patriarchy is like a man, having his boot on a woman's neck.
Feminism is a woman complaining about the boot.
Conservatives insist there wasn't a problem with the boot being on the neck until the woman started talking about it. If she would just be quiet about the boot, there wouldn't be a problem.
Male allies think there's a way to talk about the boot being on the neck that appeals to everyone and doesn't "alienate" those that would help remove the boot.
"Good Guys" insist that not all men wear boots.
Women with internalized misogyny insist they have a boot on their neck by choice and they love it! They insist something is wrong with women complaining about the boot.
The boot is never removed from the neck."
-LeAndra Lee Baker-

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"Patriarchy is like a man, having his boot on a woman's neck.
Feminism is a woman complaining about the boot.
Conservatives insist there wasn't a problem with the boot being on the neck until the woman started talking about it. If she would just be quiet about the boot, there wouldn't be a problem.
Male allies think there's a way to talk about the boot being on the neck that appeals to everyone and doesn't "alienate" those that would help remove the boot.
"Good Guys" insist that not all men wear boots.
Women with internalized misogyny insist they have a boot on their neck by choice and they love it! They insist something is wrong with women complaining about the boot.
The boot is never removed from the neck."
-LeAndra Lee Baker-

I understand the point being made. It's instantly dismissive of any non-feminist position, and accepts only women as feminists, so I suspect mileage may vary.

 

[VoidCat]

I understand the point being made. It's instantly dismissive of any non-feminist position, and accepts only women as feminists, so I suspect mileage may vary.

To be clear I just thought the quote was interesting. Sure I am a feminist but I dont have problems with people who take a traditional role. I just dont want that role forced on me...what I want is for anyone to be able to pursue any path they like regardless of gender as long as they arent hurting anyone else. That is all I want.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To be clear I just thought the quote was interesting. Sure I am a feminist but I dont have problems with people who take a traditional role. I just dont want that role forced on me...what I want is for anyone to be able to pursue any path they like regardless of gender as long as they arent hurting anyone else. That is all I want.

I would consider myself a feminist, albeit of the fairly lukewarm and uneducated variety.
But many feminists would say I can't be. Plenty would indeed have me as the enemy.

I'm not judging those positions, but it's impossible for me to 'agree' with feminism. It matters entirely on the context of the discussion.
I would say that I go further than egalitarianism, though, which was a pretty substantial step for me, and a somewhat uncomfortable one when I first consciously decided that.

 

[The Hammer]

I would say that I go further than egalitarianism, though, which was a pretty substantial step for me, and a somewhat uncomfortable one when I first consciously decided that.

Further than egalitarianism? How so?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Further than egalitarianism? How so?

In simple terms, I always considered myself an egalitarian. People are of equal value, regardless of gender, colour, etc. And they should ideally have equal opportunity.

Over time, I have concluded that if egalitarianism is the ultimate goal (and I strongly believe it is) then some more proactive actions are required to move the playing field closer to level. As a manager, and on a local level, I try very hard to not hire the person who makes the most sense to me, and instead build a diverse team (because I think that is the most effective team). That leads to me commonly hiring a woman over a man where their skills and experience are similar. You can think of that as the mildest of affirmative action, or you can think of it as me trying to build the best team, rather than simply hire the best individual (over and over) but it is a small microcosm of where my head is at.

My version of 'affirmative action' would be pretty subtle, since I would see it more as a useful evil than a positive. But I'm convinced that waiting for everyone in society to decide egalitarianism makes sense, and further than that to be able to divorce themselves from their own inherent and possibly poorly understood prejudices (we all have them) in order to actually achieve egalitarian OUTCOMES is a fairly idealistic position. I'd see a somewhat limited feminist position as much more pragmatic...which probably flies in the face of what some would believe.

 

[stvdv]

To be clear I just thought the quote was interesting.

That was exactly my feeling too, very interesting quote ... quite creative, picturing the words in a way to easily remember and understand the meaning

 

[blü 2]

I understand the point being made. It's instantly dismissive of any non-feminist position, and accepts only women as feminists, so I suspect mileage may vary.

Although it's called 'feminism', it's essentially egalitarianism, isn't it?

Same as BLM.

I'm all for it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Although it's called 'feminism', it's essentially egalitarianism, isn't it?

Same as BLM.

I'm all for it.

I'm for feminism, although I wouldn't equate it to egalitarianism.
I'm not so much for that particular quote.

 

[Revoltingest]

Patriarchy is only men being drafted into useless wars.
Feminism is women complaining they want veteran's benefits.

 

[Kooky]

Patriarchy is only men being drafted into useless wars.
Feminism is women complaining they want veteran's benefits.

You need to update your hot take to the 21st century, the US switched to an all-volunteer army in 1973.

I'm afraid at this point in US history, the draft only exists in the minds of old men complaining about feminism.

 

[Revoltingest]

You need to update your hot take to the 21st century, the US switched to an all-volunteer army in 1973.

Did you ever face the draft?
I don't sense appreciation of its evil.

I'm afraid at this point in US history, the draft only exists in the minds of old men complaining about feminism.

I recommend taking a basic civics course.
Men still must register.
There are potentially severe penalties for not doing it.
Do You Still Have to Register for the Draft?
Government could indeed reactivate it.

 

[Kooky]

Did you ever face the draft?
I don't sense appreciation of its evil.

I have served as a conscript in my country's armed forces, yes.

Not in an actual wartime situation, of course - but then, neither has any American of eligible age who did not volunteer for the job.

I recommend taking a basic civics course.
Men still must register.
There are potentially severe penalties for not doing it.
Do You Still Have to Register for the Draft?
Government could indeed reactivate it.

And women serve in the armed forces at this very moment.

I'm still wracking my brain how a reasonable mind could spin an anti-feminist rant out of these simple facts, yet here we are, I guess.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have served as a conscript in my country's armed forces, yes.
Not in an actual wartime situation, of course - but then, neither has any American of eligible age who did not volunteer for the job.

I knew many who had no choice in the 70s when the
Vietnam war was still on. Praise Nixon for ending the
draft, & making my felony moot.

And women serve in the armed forces at this very moment.

I'm still wracking my brain how a reasonable mind could spin an anti-feminist rant out of these simple facts, yet here we are, I guess.

Perhaps you're not familiar with Ameristanian politics.
I recall actual complaints from women that they didn't
benefit from the perquisites of military service, yet
were rather silent on the heinous sexism of the draft.

 

[Kooky]

I knew many who had no choice in the 70s when the
Vietnam war was still on. Praise Nixon for ending the
draft, & making my felony moot.

Do you think it makes any sense at all in that light to attack women for men being drafted, something which they had no influence on and were not able to change all by themselves anyway? I can understand the resentment, but I feel it is thoroughly misdirected. It was not women who sent young men off to war, or even started these wars in the first place.

Perhaps you're not familiar with Ameristanian politics.
I recall actual complaints from women that they didn't
benefit from the perquisites of military service, yet
were rather silent on the heinous sexism of the draft.

Could you elaborate on what it is you are talking about here, preferably in a way that points to concrete factual occurrences?

Everyone on this forum seems to enjoy speaking in oblique shorthand and vague references, seemingly unwilling or even outright incapable of talking about their issues in concrete terms, and it's driving me nuts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you think it makes any sense at all in that light to attack women...

You misunderstand.
I critciize some feminists who carp about the sexism
of veterans' advantages, but didn't fight the draft,
or enlist. I guess you & I have different values.