A lawyer in California is pushing a ballot measure to legalize killing gay people

[Deidre]

Servant, do you really believe in your heart of hearts, that God would ask such a thing? That this was ever a ''command'' of God?

Legalize killing homosexuals is unacceptable in secular society.

But in Christian/jewish society its normal because u must follow the commands of G-D/YHWH.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No offense meant, but I'm tried of that as the pat answer when Christians have a hard time admitting that the Bible itself states things which ALL Christians should agree with...ie: homosexuality is a sin. The Bible states it.

No, it doesn't. That subject has been debated to death on this forum. Go search for "the Bible and homosexuality" or something similar on the board's search engine. There's many knowledgeable arguments that the Bible really has nothing to say about homosexuality, or at least homosexuality in general.

Edit: Here: Please Explain: "Gay Christian" | ReligiousForums.com

Go read through that thread and decide which side's argument makes the most sense to you.

 

[gsa]

Servant, do you really believe in your heart of hearts, that God would ask such a thing? That this was ever a ''command'' of God?

Yes, he does. Both Yahweh and Allah.

 

[Deidre]

No offense taken.The holy scripture does speak of wars in a time when God used His people to carry out judgment.This is not the norm in todays time.God has a set day for judgment.According to the holy scriptures.People who hate and kill are obviously not of God.Those who carry on with love and respect are actually doing as Christ himself did.Those who behave in this way are not Christians.Christian means to be Christ like,to walk as Christ did.Those who hate their fellow man are not doing this.A true follower of God knows that He does not approve of homosexual acts but that is for He to decide and judge.All we are to do is follow His commands.If people want to know then it is explained in a respectful way.If one wants to listen then it is up to them.If they do not then it is ok.Everyone has a choice.

I could *almost* slip back into Christianity listening to you, Bible Student. lol
You are right in this sense, but Christ spoke of hell, and if we are to believe his words, then he is talking about ''sinners.'' Unrepentant sinners. Which would be in this scenario, homosexuals who don't refrain from homosexual acts. So there is this mixed message of sorts when it comes to Christ.

But, I will say, if more Christians were like you, the world would be a better place.

 

[gsa]

No, it doesn't. That subject has been debated to death on this forum. Go search for "the Bible and homosexuality" or something similar on the board's search engine. There's many knowledgeable arguments that the Bible really has nothing to say about homosexuality, or at least homosexuality in general.

I agree that there are arguments, but they do contradict about 2,000 years of Christian tradition which is fairly uniform on this subject. While I am all in favor of the reformists winning this particular fight, I am not convinced that they have the better historical or textual argument.

 

[Nada]

I could *almost* slip back into Christianity listening to you, Bible Student. lol
You are right in this sense, but Christ spoke of hell, and if we are to believe his words, then he is talking about ''sinners.'' Unrepentant sinners. Which would be in this scenario, homosexuals who don't refrain from homosexual acts. So there is this mixed message of sorts when it comes to Christ.

But, I will say, if more Christians were like you, the world would be a better place.

Thank you for your kind words and respectful comment.I really appreciate it.

 

[Deidre]

No, it doesn't. That subject has been debated to death on this forum. Go search for "the Bible and homosexuality" or something similar on the board's search engine. There's many knowledgeable arguments that the Bible really has nothing to say about homosexuality, or at least homosexuality in general.

Edit: Here: Please Explain: "Gay Christian" | ReligiousForums.com

Go read through that thread and decide which side's argument makes the most sense to you.

The Bible is what it is. And we can't cherry pick away the parts that distress us.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

 

[Ouroboros]

Not a politician, thankfully. It just seems California has no standards for accepting and voting on citizen-proposed legislature and a very easy way for even the craziest of Californians to propose it.

I'm not sure what you mean.

You submit a proposal. You collect at least 300,000 signatures (people who supports the suggested bill), then it goes on the ballot (voting by the people in California), and only if there's a majority would it go in effect, and even then, supreme court can stop it if it's unconstitutional.

It's an idiotic bill McLaughable is submitting, but I have no worries. People are stupid here in CA, but not that crazy to allow such a hateful law in effect.

There's a good side and a bad side to this system. The good thing is that anyone, with a great idea, can submit a proposal and collect signatures, but the bad side is that anyone, with a stupid or evil idea, can submit a proposal as well. There's always a dark side to freedom. If we had a committee regulating what proposals could go into the ballot, we'd be much closer to a totalitarian state. The idea is that we have some form of democracy, where everyone's voice can be heard, if the idiots like McLaughlin.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree that there are arguments, but they do contradict about 2,000 years of Christian tradition which is fairly uniform on this subject. While I am all in favor of the reformists winning this particular fight, I am not convinced that they have the better historical or textual argument.

Why aren't you convinced? The anti-gay argument has been ripped to shreds many times over.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Legalize killing homosexuals is unacceptable in secular society.

But in Christian/jewish society its normal because u must follow the commands of G-D/YHWH.

Hey, @Servant_of_the_One1 , I won't bother with the obvious questions or comments, since we would disagree. But have you read the link (to the proposed legislation) and if so what is your opinion on it, in terms of the various clauses, structure, etc?

 

[Deidre]

Thank you for your kind words and respectful comment.I really appreciate it.

You know how I can get in chat , so I do mean it when I say it to you. You bring a depth to the faith that SO many Christians lack.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Bible is what it is. And we can't cherry pick away the parts that distress us.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

No one's cherry picking anything. It's called examining the text, looking at the original languages and putting it into cultural context.

 

[Deidre]

No one's cherry picking anything. It's called examining the text, looking at the original languages and putting it into cultural context.

Homosexuality was and still is viewed as a sin, in Christianity and in the RCC. There's no getting around that fact, SF.

 

[gsa]

Why aren't you convinced? The anti-gay argument has been ripped to shreds many times over.

Specifically, I am not persuaded by reformist interpretations of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and Romans 1. I think that their interpretation of the Sodom story is more persuasive, and I don't think that we can have much of an idea what was being conveyed in the other epistles. But on those two pieces, I am not really convinced that it isn't a flat out prohibition on male homosexuality. I don't think that the bible says anything about lesbianism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Homosexuality was and still is viewed as a sin, in Christianity and in the RCC. There's no getting around that fact, SF.

What does that have to do with what the text says and what the context of it is? The anti-gay interpretations didn't really come to the fore for centuries after the fact and became most prominent during the Middle Ages.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Specifically, I am not persuaded by reformist interpretations of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and Romans 1. I think that their interpretation of the Sodom story is more persuasive, and I don't think that we can have much of an idea what was being conveyed in the other epistles. But on those two pieces, I am not really convinced that it isn't a flat out prohibition on male homosexuality. I don't think that the bible says anything about lesbianism.

The Epistles are more likely referring to Pagan sex rites and Romans is specifically referring backslidden Christians taking part in those rites.

 

[Deidre]

What does that have to do with what the text says and what the context of it is? The anti-gay interpretations didn't really come to the fore for centuries after the fact and became most prominent during the Middle Ages.

It's not an interpretation. Christianity has and always will teach (including the RCC) that homosexual acts are sinful. Now, the RCC teaches that if one chooses to not to engage in homosexual acts, but considers him/herself gay, that is okay. But if they do, then those acts are considered sinful. The RCC only acknowledges a marriage between a man and a woman. Why is that?

I'm not trying to get you to leave your faith, but you have to see it for what it is. Not as you wish to see it. I went through all of this, until the mental gymnastics became too much, I eventually left it.

 

[gsa]

The Epistles are more likely referring to Pagan sex rites and Romans is specifically referring backslidden Christians taking part in those rites.

Perhaps. I am not convinced. Even if I were convinced, however, Christian tradition plays a role in the interpretation of those texts, and Catholicism is negative, as is Orthodoxy, as are most branches of Protestantism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's not an interpretation. Christianity has and always will teach (including the RCC) that homosexual acts are sinful. Now, the RCC teaches that if one chooses to not to engage in homosexual acts, but considers him/herself gay, that is okay. But if they do, then those acts are considered sinful. The RCC only acknowledges a marriage between a man and a woman. Why is that?

I'm not trying to get you to leave your faith, but you have to see it for what it is. Not as you wish to see it. I went through all of this, until the mental gymnastics became too much, I eventually left it.

Don't act like this is new to me. I'm bisexual, among other things, and I have studied the Church's teachings and all the arguments. My opinions on this are based on soul-searching and research. I'm sorry that what you've read or whatever has caused you to leave the Church. That's happened to me before but I kept thinking about it and am finding a way to make it work for me, as many other LGBT Christians of various denominations do.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Servant, do you really believe in your heart of hearts, that God would ask such a thing? That this was ever a ''command'' of God?

A homosexual who practises sodomy, or homosexual who controles his feeling and is married to wife?