A good heated discussion

[savagewind]

Intent might be the reason for believing in a lie but the intent is probably hidden in the subconscious mind.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Genesis 6:5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

 

[savagewind]

is this done to expose and highlight the psychological vulnerability/unskillfulness?

Is what done? I do not know if error is ever done on purpose.

 

[crossfire]

Is what done? I do not know if error is ever done on purpose.

Really? Are "happy accidents" just something that happens, or is it something bubbling up from your subconscious trying to express itself?

 

[savagewind]

I realize it sounds naive to say no one has made a mistake on purpose. But when a mistake is made on purpose the desired result is sought, so it isn't a mistake. I am talking about failing on purpose. Really failing. Can you imagine it is possible someone wants to fail for the sake of failing? Is it perhaps the definition of satan? Does satan mean to fail on purpose?

 

[crossfire]

I realize it sounds naive to say no one has made a mistake on purpose. But when a mistake is made on purpose the desired result is sought, so it isn't a mistake. I am talking about failing on purpose. Really failing. Can you imagine it is possible someone wants to fail for the sake of failing? Is it perhaps the definition of satan? Does satan mean to fail on purpose?

Well, if God is supposedly all-powerful, then isn't it written into the script?

 

[savagewind]

Well, if God is supposedly all-powerful, then isn't it written into the script?

Is your question "is failure written in"? There is a difference between failure and planned failure. I do not believe in planned failure. It is an oxymoron.

 

[crossfire]

Is your question "is failure written in"? There is a difference between failure and planned failure. I do not believe in planned failure. It is an oxymoron.

Oh gosh, who was it who said, "If you want to succeed, then double your failure rate?"

 

[savagewind]

If someone or something plans to fail and does fail it means he didn't fail.

 

[savagewind]

Oh gosh, who was it who said, "If you want to succeed, then double your failure rate?"

That means keep trying until you get it right. It has nothing to do with planning to fail. The goal is to succeed, not fail.

 

[crossfire]

That means keep trying until you get it right. It has nothing to do with planning to fail. The goal is to succeed, not fail.

Well if an all-knowing god would know something was going to fail, but no one believed god, then what's a god to do? A repeated demonstration of failure would get the point acrossed, eventually, no?

 

[savagewind]

Sabotage is planned failure. But it is on purpose. The goal is to break or ruin something. If the sabotage is a success, failure results. Whose failure?

 

[savagewind]

Well if an all-knowing god would know something was going to fail, but no one believed god, then what's a god to do? A repeated demonstration of failure would get the point acrossed, eventually, no?

The point is made, though obscure. Obscure on purpose I imagine.

 

[crossfire]

Sabotage is planned failure. But it is on purpose. The goal is to break or ruin something. If the sabotage is a success, failure results. Whose failure?

Is entropy sabotage?

 

[savagewind]

Is entropy sabotage?

LOL. Brain overload....

I suppose if I WAS Satan I could answer that. My answer is I don't know.

Does anyone else find it interesting that the topic satan very quickly became one about god and the decaying nature of the universe?

 

[crossfire]

LOL. Brain overload....

I suppose if I WAS Satan I could answer that. My answer is I don't know.

Does anyone else find it interesting that the topic satan very quickly became one about god and the decaying nature of the universe?

Impermanence.

 

[savagewind]

Impermanence.

Is the scientific nature of the universe and the Biblical nature of satan.

It is also the religious view of Islam for the universe. And the Jehovah's Witness view of you and me.

I believe in no beginning and no end of YHWH. YHWH is HE who has nothing to do with impermanence.

Do you want to talk about it?

 

[crossfire]

Well, if you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that can make one wise, you will surely die.

I think impermanence is a kindness to us--if we suffer and learn from our mistakes, then there is the impermanence thing that insures that there will be an end of suffering.

 

[savagewind]

Well, if you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that can make one wise, you will surely die.

I think impermanence is a kindness to us--if we suffer and learn from our mistakes, then there is the impermanence thing that insures that there will be an end of suffering.

There are many people and persons who do not suffer. What about them? Should all life come to an end for the ones that suffer leaving nothing for the ones who do not suffer?

 

[crossfire]

There are many people and persons who do not suffer. What about them? Should all life come to an end for the ones that suffer leaving nothing for the ones who do not suffer?

Do the ones who do not suffer learn anything from observing the suffering of others, if not empathy?

 

[savagewind]

Do the ones who do not suffer learn anything from observing the suffering of others, if not empathy?

What good is learning if it will all come to an end?