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A contradiction? (Jacob and Esau)

calm

Active Member
The book of Genesis and the book of Jubilees describe two different events in the attack of Esau and his people on Jacob.
The book of Genesis says that when Esau stood before Jacob with his people, he suddenly jumped on him with tears in the eyes and embraced him. (Genesis 33:4) So he changed his mind surprisingly.

On the other hand, the Book of Jubilees says that Esau started his attack, but he lost it.
This happend just before the fight:

Chapter 37-38

And he closed the gates of the tower; and he stood on the battlements and spake to his brother Esau and said, 'Noble is the comfort wherewith thou hast come to comfort me for my wife who has died. Is this the oath that thou didst swear to thy father and again to thy mother before they died? Thou hast broken the oath, and on the moment that thou didst swear to thy father wast thou condemned.'
And then Esau answered and said unto him, 'Neither the children of men nor the beasts of the earth have any oath of righteousness which in swearing they have sworn (an oath valid) for ever; but every day they devise evil one against another, and how each may slay his adversary and foe.
And thou dost hate me and my children for ever. And there is no observing the tie of brotherhood with thee.
Hear these words which I declare unto thee,
If the boar can change its skin and make its bristles as soft as wool,
Or if it can cause horns to sprout forth on its head like the horns of a stag or of a sheep,
Then will I observe the tie of brotherhood with thee
And if the breasts separated themselves from their mother, for thou hast not been a brother to me.
And if the wolves make peace with the lambs so as not to devour or do them violence,
And if their hearts are towards them for good,
Then there shall be peace in my heart towards thee
And if the lion becomes the friend of the ox and makes peace with him
And if he is bound under one yoke with him and ploughs with him,
Then will I make peace with thee.
And when the raven becomes white as the raza,
Then know that I have loved thee
And shall make peace with thee
Thou shalt be rooted out,
And thy sons shall be rooted out,
And there shall be no peace for thee'
And when Jacob saw that he was (so) evilly disposed towards him with his heart, and with all his soul as to slay him, and that he had come springing like the wild boar which comes upon the spear that pierces and kills it, and recoils not from it;
then he spake to his own and to his servants that they should attack him and all his companions.

And after that Judah spake to Jacob, his father, and said unto him: 'Bend thy bow, father, and send forth thy arrows and cast down the adversary and slay the enemy; and mayst thou have the power, for we shall not slay thy brother, for he is such as thou, and he is like thee let us give him (this) honour.'
Then Jacob bent his bow and sent forth the arrow and struck Esau, his brother (on his right breast) and slew him.

From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
by R.H. Charles, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913
Scanned and Edited by Joshua Williams, Northwest Nazarene College

Jubilees
___
But Esau did not die by the arrow of Jacob, he survived this attack. Esau was later killed by Chushim, according to the book of Jasher.

What do you say to that? How do you explain this contradiction?
 
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Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
In case you haven't noticed, the Book of Jubilees isn't in the Tanakh. If it's part of your scripture, it's your problem.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
In case you haven't noticed, the Book of Jubilees isn't in the Tanakh. If it's part of your scripture, it's your problem.
Guess it depends on what kind of Jew you are.

"The Book of Jubilees, sometimes called Lesser Genesis (Leptogenesis), is an ancient Jewish religious work of 50 chapters, considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as well as Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews), where it is known as the Book of Division (Ge'ez: መጽሃፈ ኩፋሌ Mets'hafe Kufale). Jubilees is considered one of the pseudepigrapha by Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. It is also not considered canonical within Judaism outside of Beta Israel."
Source: Wikipedia

.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Guess it depends on what kind of Jew you are.

"The Book of Jubilees, sometimes called Lesser Genesis (Leptogenesis), is an ancient Jewish religious work of 50 chapters, considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as well as Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews), where it is known as the Book of Division (Ge'ez: መጽሃፈ ኩፋሌ Mets'hafe Kufale). Jubilees is considered one of the pseudepigrapha by Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. It is also not considered canonical within Judaism outside of Beta Israel."
Source: Wikipedia

.
I'm aware of this, but the thing is that you simply won't find it within most Jewish communities. The group here mentioned is less than 3% of all Jews.
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
The book of Genesis and the book of Jubilees describe two different events in the attack of Esau and his people on Jacob.
The book of Genesis says that when Esau stood before Jacob with his people, he suddenly jumped on him with tears in the eyes and embraced him. (Genesis 33:4) So he changed his mind surprisingly.

On the other hand, the Book of Jubilees says that Esau started his attack, but he lost it.
This happend just before the fight:

Chapter 37-38

And he closed the gates of the tower; and he stood on the battlements and spake to his brother Esau and said, 'Noble is the comfort wherewith thou hast come to comfort me for my wife who has died. Is this the oath that thou didst swear to thy father and again to thy mother before they died? Thou hast broken the oath, and on the moment that thou didst swear to thy father wast thou condemned.'
And then Esau answered and said unto him, 'Neither the children of men nor the beasts of the earth have any oath of righteousness which in swearing they have sworn (an oath valid) for ever; but every day they devise evil one against another, and how each may slay his adversary and foe.
And thou dost hate me and my children for ever. And there is no observing the tie of brotherhood with thee.
Hear these words which I declare unto thee,
If the boar can change its skin and make its bristles as soft as wool,
Or if it can cause horns to sprout forth on its head like the horns of a stag or of a sheep,
Then will I observe the tie of brotherhood with thee
And if the breasts separated themselves from their mother, for thou hast not been a brother to me.
And if the wolves make peace with the lambs so as not to devour or do them violence,
And if their hearts are towards them for good,
Then there shall be peace in my heart towards thee
And if the lion becomes the friend of the ox and makes peace with him
And if he is bound under one yoke with him and ploughs with him,
Then will I make peace with thee.
And when the raven becomes white as the raza,
Then know that I have loved thee
And shall make peace with thee
Thou shalt be rooted out,
And thy sons shall be rooted out,
And there shall be no peace for thee'
And when Jacob saw that he was (so) evilly disposed towards him with his heart, and with all his soul as to slay him, and that he had come springing like the wild boar which comes upon the spear that pierces and kills it, and recoils not from it;
then he spake to his own and to his servants that they should attack him and all his companions.

And after that Judah spake to Jacob, his father, and said unto him: 'Bend thy bow, father, and send forth thy arrows and cast down the adversary and slay the enemy; and mayst thou have the power, for we shall not slay thy brother, for he is such as thou, and he is like thee let us give him (this) honour.'
Then Jacob bent his bow and sent forth the arrow and struck Esau, his brother (on his right breast) and slew him.

From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
by R.H. Charles, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913
Scanned and Edited by Joshua Williams, Northwest Nazarene College

Jubilees
___
But Esau did not die by the arrow of Jacob, he survived this attack. Esau was later killed by Chushim, according to the book of Jasher.

What do you say to that? How do you explain this contradiction?
The book of jubilees is not part of the Bible. It means absolutely nothing.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I'm aware of this, but the thing is that you simply won't find it within most Jewish communities. The group here mentioned is less than 3% of all Jews.
One broken link is all it takes to make the chain useless.

.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
If you buy a mainstream Jewish translation of the Tanakh, that book won't be in there.
And if you put diesel fuel in a gasoline tank the engine isn't going to run for long, if at all. The point being, so what?

.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
One broken link is all it takes to make the chain useless.

.
A small percentage of scientists do not accept the theory of evolution.
I guess that makes that chain useless. Can't wear a chain with a broken link.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
The book of Genesis and the book of Jubilees describe two different events in the attack of Esau and his people on Jacob.
The book of Genesis says that when Esau stood before Jacob with his people, he suddenly jumped on him with tears in the eyes and embraced him. (Genesis 33:4) So he changed his mind surprisingly.

On the other hand, the Book of Jubilees says that Esau started his attack, but he lost it.
This happend just before the fight:

Chapter 37-38

And he closed the gates of the tower; and he stood on the battlements and spake to his brother Esau and said, 'Noble is the comfort wherewith thou hast come to comfort me for my wife who has died. Is this the oath that thou didst swear to thy father and again to thy mother before they died? Thou hast broken the oath, and on the moment that thou didst swear to thy father wast thou condemned.'
And then Esau answered and said unto him, 'Neither the children of men nor the beasts of the earth have any oath of righteousness which in swearing they have sworn (an oath valid) for ever; but every day they devise evil one against another, and how each may slay his adversary and foe.
And thou dost hate me and my children for ever. And there is no observing the tie of brotherhood with thee.
Hear these words which I declare unto thee,
If the boar can change its skin and make its bristles as soft as wool,
Or if it can cause horns to sprout forth on its head like the horns of a stag or of a sheep,
Then will I observe the tie of brotherhood with thee
And if the breasts separated themselves from their mother, for thou hast not been a brother to me.
And if the wolves make peace with the lambs so as not to devour or do them violence,
And if their hearts are towards them for good,
Then there shall be peace in my heart towards thee
And if the lion becomes the friend of the ox and makes peace with him
And if he is bound under one yoke with him and ploughs with him,
Then will I make peace with thee.
And when the raven becomes white as the raza,
Then know that I have loved thee
And shall make peace with thee
Thou shalt be rooted out,
And thy sons shall be rooted out,
And there shall be no peace for thee'
And when Jacob saw that he was (so) evilly disposed towards him with his heart, and with all his soul as to slay him, and that he had come springing like the wild boar which comes upon the spear that pierces and kills it, and recoils not from it;
then he spake to his own and to his servants that they should attack him and all his companions.

And after that Judah spake to Jacob, his father, and said unto him: 'Bend thy bow, father, and send forth thy arrows and cast down the adversary and slay the enemy; and mayst thou have the power, for we shall not slay thy brother, for he is such as thou, and he is like thee let us give him (this) honour.'
Then Jacob bent his bow and sent forth the arrow and struck Esau, his brother (on his right breast) and slew him.

From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
by R.H. Charles, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913
Scanned and Edited by Joshua Williams, Northwest Nazarene College

Jubilees
___
But Esau did not die by the arrow of Jacob, he survived this attack. Esau was later killed by Chushim, according to the book of Jasher.

What do you say to that? How do you explain this contradiction?

The account in Genesis Speaks of a different time than that in Jubilees. Esau had sworn that he would kill Jacob, but only after their father Isaac had died.
The book of Genesis and the book of Jubilees describe two different events in the attack of Esau and his people on Jacob.
The book of Genesis says that when Esau stood before Jacob with his people, he suddenly jumped on him with tears in the eyes and embraced him. (Genesis 33:4) So he changed his mind surprisingly.

On the other hand, the Book of Jubilees says that Esau started his attack, but he lost it.
This happend just before the fight:

Chapter 37-38

And he closed the gates of the tower; and he stood on the battlements and spake to his brother Esau and said, 'Noble is the comfort wherewith thou hast come to comfort me for my wife who has died. Is this the oath that thou didst swear to thy father and again to thy mother before they died? Thou hast broken the oath, and on the moment that thou didst swear to thy father wast thou condemned.'
And then Esau answered and said unto him, 'Neither the children of men nor the beasts of the earth have any oath of righteousness which in swearing they have sworn (an oath valid) for ever; but every day they devise evil one against another, and how each may slay his adversary and foe.
And thou dost hate me and my children for ever. And there is no observing the tie of brotherhood with thee.
Hear these words which I declare unto thee,
If the boar can change its skin and make its bristles as soft as wool,
Or if it can cause horns to sprout forth on its head like the horns of a stag or of a sheep,
Then will I observe the tie of brotherhood with thee
And if the breasts separated themselves from their mother, for thou hast not been a brother to me.
And if the wolves make peace with the lambs so as not to devour or do them violence,
And if their hearts are towards them for good,
Then there shall be peace in my heart towards thee
And if the lion becomes the friend of the ox and makes peace with him
And if he is bound under one yoke with him and ploughs with him,
Then will I make peace with thee.
And when the raven becomes white as the raza,
Then know that I have loved thee
And shall make peace with thee
Thou shalt be rooted out,
And thy sons shall be rooted out,
And there shall be no peace for thee'
And when Jacob saw that he was (so) evilly disposed towards him with his heart, and with all his soul as to slay him, and that he had come springing like the wild boar which comes upon the spear that pierces and kills it, and recoils not from it;
then he spake to his own and to his servants that they should attack him and all his companions.

And after that Judah spake to Jacob, his father, and said unto him: 'Bend thy bow, father, and send forth thy arrows and cast down the adversary and slay the enemy; and mayst thou have the power, for we shall not slay thy brother, for he is such as thou, and he is like thee let us give him (this) honour.'
Then Jacob bent his bow and sent forth the arrow and struck Esau, his brother (on his right breast) and slew him.

From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
by R.H. Charles, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913
Scanned and Edited by Joshua Williams, Northwest Nazarene College

Jubilees
___
But Esau did not die by the arrow of Jacob, he survived this attack. Esau was later killed by Chushim, according to the book of Jasher.

What do you say to that? How do you explain this contradiction?

The account in Genesis and that in Jubilees occurred in two different points in time. Esau swore to kill his brother Jacob, but not until after the death of their father Isaac.

Genesis 27: 41; Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob."

Benjamin the youngest son of Jacob, was born years after the first meeting of Jacob and Esau as recorded in Genesis Chapter 33, and it was while Jacob and his family were camped at Ephrath near to Bethlehem before the birth of Benjamin, that Jacob went to visit his father Isaac, who was still living at that time, in Mamre near Hebron.

Isaac who sired his twin sons when he was sixty, died at the age of 180, and it was after his two sons Esau and Jacob who were then both 120, had buried their father, that Esau came against his brother Jacob in order to kill him, but was himself killed by his brother Jacob.

Genesis 35: 28-29; "Isaac lived to be 180 years old and died at a ripe old age, and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

To those Christians who reject the book of Jubilees, I would ask them to check their Old Testament, which states that Shelah is the son of Arpachshad. Only twice in the OT, is the father of Shelah mentioned, once in Genesis 11: 12; where it is said; "When Arpachshad was 35 he had a son, 'Shelah.' Then again in 1 Chronicles 1: 18; and there it is written; "Arpachshad was the father of Shelah."

While in the book of Jubilees we see recorded in [Chapter 8] 1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she 2 bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for 3 himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and 4 stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was 5 afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and 6 called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.

If those Christians reject the book of Jubilees, they must now reject their NT, in which Luke 3: 35-36; reveals that Shelah is the son of Cainam/Kainam, who is the son of Arpachshad.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
A small percentage of scientists do not accept the theory of evolution.
I guess that makes that chain useless. Can't wear a chain with a broken link.
It's a matter of dependency. Think about it.



If you give up, hold down the left clicker on your mouse and scroll ahead. The truth of Rival's statement "In case you haven't noticed, the Book of Jubilees isn't in the Tanakh" depends on the condition that no Tanakh includes the Book of Jubilees, and any single exception would render his claim false. Well the Tanakh of the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) does include the book, which is that single exception. Like wise, any single exception to the integrity of a chain, a broken link, renders the chain useless.


.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
It's a matter of dependency. Think about it.



If you give up, hold down the left clicker on your mouse and scroll ahead. The truth of Rival's statement "In case you haven't noticed, the Book of Jubilees isn't in the Tanakh" depends on the condition that no Tanakh includes the Book of Jubilees, and any single exception would render his claim false. Well the Tanakh of the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) does include the book, which is that single exception. Like wise, any single exception to the integrity of a chain, a broken link, renders the chain useless.


.
Okay. Clever format.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
It occurs to me that people busy looking for contradictory parts of the Bible never bother to examine them in their own life.
 
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