Response: In other words, you can't debunk the argument and deny the fact of the qur'an. Thanks for the clarification. Is it that hard for you to just say so or are you that desperate for attention and an ego boost?
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7 layers of heaven
- Thread starter skydivephil
- Start date
Response: In other words, you can't debunk the argument and deny the fact of the qur'an. Thanks for the clarification. Is it that hard for you to just say so or are you that desperate for attention and an ego boost?
gnostic
The Lost One
fatihah said:
Okay, we'll play it your way if you are such a chicken.
You answer my questions now about scientific research, and then I'll debunk your interpretation about the 7 heavens with regards to the atmosphere and stars...and the Qur'anic nonsense about lamps. I will put forward why the Qur'an is wrong scientifically and literary especially in regards to the atmospheres.
I am more than willing to debunk your interpretation, but only if you answer my questions first.
I will even take back all the names I've called you and apologise. And that's a promise.
Do you agree?
Can you promise me to do the same, with regarding to my questions?
And those questions are:
Did you do scientific research?
In what field or area did you do scientific research on?
I am offering you far more than a fair deal, because I am prepare to do a lot more than I've asked of you. So you have give me something in return for a whole thing that I am prepare to give you. In what field or area did you do scientific research on?
What I am not prepare to do is give you something first and you will most likely give nothing, because you have an awful habit of running away.
Do we have a deal?
Are you going to evade this deal as well as my questions?
Response: If you don't know what staying up topic is, then that's your business. I'm not making such a foolish deal. Just another attempt of yours to run away from the topic for fear of embarassing yourself by displaying the fact that when it comes to the topic, you don't have a clue. It's a very sad thing to watch. A person joins a thread of a specific topic and the whole time, they want to have a discussion non-relating the topic! Yet I'm the chicken? You're hypocrisy is amusing.
Response: Words of the defeated.
gnostic
The Lost One
The topic is not even yours.fatihah said:
You're forgetting that Skydivephil was the one who created this topic, so he is entitled to ask questions to any claim made by other members in his topic. And you've refused to his, which is precisely the same questions that I have ask you.
What do you don't understand...about who created what topic?
I have offered you far better deal, but knowing your reputation from not answering valid questions, the deal was to get something for something. But again, you run away from questions to your false claim.
You're a pathetic lying coward. No wondered why non-Muslims can take you seriously.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
agreed, i was defeated. i, nor anyone else im sure, can talk any sense into you. tis an act of futility, speaking to you like a sane adult human, anyone who tries to will be defeated, it is inevitable.
gnostic
The Lost One
jmorris said:
I don't want to give him something in return for nothing, that's why I offer him a deal. Considering his records, I have no doubt he would still refuse to answer me, if I go 1st.jmorris said:
I have just proven that fatihah is an absolutely gutless Muslim, because of his refusal to now deal; and because of continuing evasions, a lying one at that.
My problem is not his interpretation on the Qur'anic verses. The verses were and he can believe whatever he want. No, my problem is that he made his claim to have done scientific research (back in post 212).
He refused to admit what type of research he has done, or even in which field in science did his research in.
They are really 2 easy questions. Either question would only need a 1-line answer. I don't need a full detail answer of what he did (that if he did any scientific research). And the research don't even have to be about earth's atmosphere, which he had interpreted.
But, no, he just run away, making excuses that it was pointless question, when he was the one who made his claim, and refused to elaborate. No one made him say "Yes, I've done scientific research." (post 212)
I think he did out of pride or ego, when he made his claim, and didn't want people to know that he hasn't. Why? I don't know.
What he didn't expect was people to ask him to elaborate about his claim. No one had forced him to put his foot in his mouth. He did it to himself. :foot:
(I was going to say he shot himself in the foot, but there was no such smiley.)
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gnostic
The Lost One
jmorris said:
It is as good as interpretation anyone else.
You could put candles on the cake, so the lamps can be metaphors for candles. You can even put pictures of stars on top of the cake, made from icing.
But the problem still exist in matching the Qur'an with your interpretation, such as stars or lamps on the lower layer. Can you put candles on the bottom layer of the cake?
Zadok
Zadok
One of the great deterrents to understanding is assuming one knows more about something foreign to them than those devout in that discipline. Ancient calendars are based on either the sun’s position in the sky or the moon and its phases. The solar calendars were based on the sun and in the ancient world the solar calendar was the more accurate. Ancient solar calendar examples are the Mayan and the calendar used at the Dead Sea Scroll community. Most experts in ancient calendars believe that Jesus used a solar rather than lunar calendar.
Why does this play in this discussion? Because in ancient science the sun is tracked at sun rise and sun set through 6 gates. Two cycles through these gates completes the 12 month solar year. It was also a popular notion that each gate was a portal to a division of heavens in which the universe existed and all the stars were governed. This then gives us 6 heavens. It was also believed among the ancients that there was another heaven in which the great G-d and creator of the universe lived. The gate to this heaven was “hidden” or “unseen” but never-the-less believed to exist. This was known anciently as the 7th heaven.
Zadok
skydivephil
Active Member
How about providing some evidence for what you say. For example, "Most experts in ancient calendars believe that Jesus used a solar rather than lunar calendar." who are these experts? which academic journal did they publish in and what was their evidence?
Zadok
Zadok
Response: Likewise.
Response:We finally agree on something.
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WorldCitizen
Member
Some one has asked a question on astronomy.
In past ages astronomers accepted the Ptolemaic system. Ptolemy was a philosopher and astronomer of Greek origin and a lecturer in the University of Alexandria which was celebrated as one of the great universities of those times. He wrote a book called the Almagest in which he gathered together the theories held by ancient astronomers, systematizing these laws in a way that represents the knowledge of astronomy of that time. The book became an authority and eastern and western students used it in their colleges as a text-book. Ptolemy founded an observatory and his observations of the heavens were accepted by all the astronomers of the time.
According to his calculations the heavens were divided into nine circles, because he observed seven planets, calculating seven distant orbits through which they moved. The circle outside of
the seventh was thought to be studded with the fixed stars. In order to make this theory clear the ancient astronomers used as an illustration the different layers of an onion — thus the curving surface of each layer adheres to the curve of each succeeding layer. Outside the eighth circle there was thought to be a ninth through which these colossal bodies were given the power to march in there destined course. They further believed this ninth sphere of action to be devoid of any solar bodies and that it moved through an invisible power, thus causing the motion of all the other stars within its radius. A motion of the outward layer of the onion moves all the inside layers with it. This, in brief, was the system of ancient astronomy.
After centuries of scientific deduction it is proved that there is no fixed heaven; that which we see is an infinite space; these stars are hung like luminous lamps in this immeasurable atmosphere. There are neither eight nor nine nor ninety spheres and the stars are numberless. Later astronomers like Kepler and Newton discovered the law of attraction and repulsion which hold these infinite stars in their place. Through this power of attraction and repulsion there is a universal law of interdependence between the stars.
From Abdul'Baha - Divine philosophy
In past ages astronomers accepted the Ptolemaic system. Ptolemy was a philosopher and astronomer of Greek origin and a lecturer in the University of Alexandria which was celebrated as one of the great universities of those times. He wrote a book called the Almagest in which he gathered together the theories held by ancient astronomers, systematizing these laws in a way that represents the knowledge of astronomy of that time. The book became an authority and eastern and western students used it in their colleges as a text-book. Ptolemy founded an observatory and his observations of the heavens were accepted by all the astronomers of the time.
According to his calculations the heavens were divided into nine circles, because he observed seven planets, calculating seven distant orbits through which they moved. The circle outside of
the seventh was thought to be studded with the fixed stars. In order to make this theory clear the ancient astronomers used as an illustration the different layers of an onion — thus the curving surface of each layer adheres to the curve of each succeeding layer. Outside the eighth circle there was thought to be a ninth through which these colossal bodies were given the power to march in there destined course. They further believed this ninth sphere of action to be devoid of any solar bodies and that it moved through an invisible power, thus causing the motion of all the other stars within its radius. A motion of the outward layer of the onion moves all the inside layers with it. This, in brief, was the system of ancient astronomy.
After centuries of scientific deduction it is proved that there is no fixed heaven; that which we see is an infinite space; these stars are hung like luminous lamps in this immeasurable atmosphere. There are neither eight nor nine nor ninety spheres and the stars are numberless. Later astronomers like Kepler and Newton discovered the law of attraction and repulsion which hold these infinite stars in their place. Through this power of attraction and repulsion there is a universal law of interdependence between the stars.
From Abdul'Baha - Divine philosophy
tarekabdo12
Active Member
There are 2 types of skies which referred to Quran as 7 skies ... the atmosphere layers and the universe skies.
>> Verse which refers to atmosphere as sky:
"By Heaven with its cyclical systems." (86:11)
"Returning" function of the sky (condensed water-rains, reflects radiation and UV ray, reflects radio waves broadcast etc)
Seven skies one above another. Cool concept which is introduced by Quran. One must remember here that there is no ancient arabic word for 'atmosphere', so Quran only refers it as 'skies'. There are 7 layers in the atmosphere:
1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Mesosphere
4. Thermosphere
5. Exosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Magnetosphere
>> Verse which refers to the sky as sky:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits." (Quran 51:7)
The entire universe is full of paths and orbits.
And about the other 'skies' which the lowest sky is adorned with stars ... it is the sky which hold this universe. And it has 7 layers too but modern science couldn't figure that out yet so I guess we just have faith that there are 7 layers of skies.
What does 7 heavens mean mentioned in Qur'an? - Yahoo! Answers
[FONT="]You can just consider these links if you are interested>>>>>>
[/FONT][FONT="]The Medical Miracles of the Holy Quran[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Embryology and human creation between Quran and science[/FONT][FONT="]
you can consider a relation between religion and science.[/FONT]
In fact, you are speaking as if you know every kind of knowledge in the world which is not true. Science still has things more to discover.
>> Verse which refers to atmosphere as sky:
"By Heaven with its cyclical systems." (86:11)
"Returning" function of the sky (condensed water-rains, reflects radiation and UV ray, reflects radio waves broadcast etc)
Seven skies one above another. Cool concept which is introduced by Quran. One must remember here that there is no ancient arabic word for 'atmosphere', so Quran only refers it as 'skies'. There are 7 layers in the atmosphere:
1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Mesosphere
4. Thermosphere
5. Exosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Magnetosphere
>> Verse which refers to the sky as sky:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits." (Quran 51:7)
The entire universe is full of paths and orbits.
And about the other 'skies' which the lowest sky is adorned with stars ... it is the sky which hold this universe. And it has 7 layers too but modern science couldn't figure that out yet so I guess we just have faith that there are 7 layers of skies.
What does 7 heavens mean mentioned in Qur'an? - Yahoo! Answers
[FONT="]You can just consider these links if you are interested>>>>>>
[/FONT][FONT="]The Medical Miracles of the Holy Quran[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Embryology and human creation between Quran and science[/FONT][FONT="]
you can consider a relation between religion and science.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
In fact, you are speaking as if you know every kind of knowledge in the world which is not true. Science still has things more to discover.
tarekabdo12
Active Member
Because there are other aspects of the universe that you don't know about.
skydivephil
Active Member
Of that I have no doubt, but that doesnt mean that you do.