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“The Son is equal to his Father”

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
It was meant to show that maiden and virgin (παρθένος) did not mean at that time a (sexually) virgin. It simply meant young woman, girl.
But the author of Matthew didn't know that probably and thought he could include Isaiah's 7:14 as a prophecy for his idea about the conception of Jesus.
That is why you can't rely on Greek only.

Again read this:

In the early part of the Koine, παρθένος had not yet shifted to refer specifically to a virgin. It was used just like נַעֲרָה* (naʕará) and עַלְמָה (ʕalmá) and בְּתוּלָה (btulá) in Hebrew.

So Hebrew is more important in this case.
 

Ajax

Active Member
I don’t see “sickness only” in that statement. So you read into it.
What else could the sins of the world do to a body? Please explain and don't forget that Jesus already knew of all the sins of the world, if he is God. So he only had to say "I forgive them, give all the sins to me and will pay for them with my life, but will be back in 3 days"
However, the Apostles wouldn’t agree with you.
They would if they could read Isaiah..They were illiterate Kenny
You point to a book with no quotations. Did you have a point?
It is a Catholic Church list of the torment tools which were used for the martyrs. Jesus had nothing like these, plus he knew that he wouldn't die for more than 3 days
 
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Ajax

Active Member
That is why you can't rely on Greek only.

Again read this:

In the early part of the Koine, παρθένος had not yet shifted to refer specifically to a virgin. It was used just like נַעֲרָה* (naʕará) and עַלְמָה (ʕalmá) and בְּתוּלָה (btulá) in Hebrew.

So Hebrew is more important in this case.
We are saying the same thing.
 

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
What else could the sins of the world do to a body. Please explain and don't forget that Jesus already knew of all the sins of the world, if he is God.
I think that essence to sinning is more important then sin.

They would if they could read Isaiah..They were illiterate Kenny
I disagree , it's not as simple as you say it.Most probably Matthew new Koine Greek , since he was a tax collector.
 

Ajax

Active Member
I think that essence to sinning is more important then sin........

I don't fully understand what you mean about essence of sinning. The thought of sinning?
Matthew the disciple did not write the Gospel according to Matthew.
 

Ajax

Active Member
The problem is that you assume that Matthew did not know that , and i say most probably he did , because he was a tax collector and most probably he knew Koine Greek.
Then it is even worse, because he clearly cheated then. He knowingly wrote lies. At least I gave Matthew the benefit of doubt.
 

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
Then it is even worse, because he clearly cheated then.
How is that cheating , when you are dependent on Hebrew?
He did not abuse the Scripture , he just used what he had.
He could've not make a difference , because the words na`arah , alma and btulah were are used as parthenos.

The gospel is traditionally attributed to the Apostle Matthew.
According to predominant scholarly views, it was written in the last quarter of the first century by an anonymous Jew familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture

The Gaelic war doesn't have Ceasar name on the title,but we know that it was written by Ceasar , because the contemproraries of Ceasar atributed it to his name and the following generations did the same thing.
 

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
I don't fully understand what you mean about essence of sinning. The thought of sinning?
Matthew the disciple did not write the Gospel according to Matthew.
That's Orthodox idea of original sin
The Son does not bear the guilt of his Father.
The focus is on essence of sinning, or thought of sinning.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
@wellwisher
Thank you for your effort in writing this imaginable story..

Any evidence? The New Testament War in Heaven theme of Revelation 12, in which the dragon "who is called the devil and Satan was thrown down to the earth", was derived from the passage about the Babylonian king in Isaiah 14.


No he wasn't sinless, as he supposedly took on him all the sins of the world....hence his crucifixtion.
If you read Revelations there is a place where it says not to add or take away any thing from the Prophesy.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!…

Where is the word Babylon, other than the Whore of Babylon written in the Revelations. Revelations is like a puzzle. The only way not to add or take away words was to highlight all the Prophesy of the Old and New testament and using just these quotes, cut them into pieces, then arrange just these pieces like a jig saw puzzle, until a complete puzzle picture appears, that uses all the pieces.

I may be the first person to solve the riddle and complete the prophesy puzzle; circa 1987. The puzzle building triggered an internal brain affect with the symbolism appearing to be parts of my own personality. I became both the good and evil roles until a crossroads appears to make a choice. The puzzle appears to be command lines for brain IT, riggers layers of internal firmware. From this triggering, I learned the symbols are parts of each of us, connected to human nature and the historical perversion of natural human nature.

In my puzzle building effort, I had a bunch of unused quotes that were not exactly prophesy but were picked anyway. I arranged these as a separate introduction to the main puzzle; Gospel of Freedom. It was the warnings that introduces the puzzle; get you bearings first. This understand below, from the Gospel of Freedom. It provides a compass.


Law and Sin

The smartest way to take on all the sins of the world, is to go after the source of sin, and not get bogged down in the after effects of its endless induction diversity. This is in the Gospel of Freedom. The source of sin is law. If there is no law, there is no sin. If you get rid of law of good and evil; Satan's tree, sin also disappears, since sin is not inputed where there is no law.

In the USA, for example, there are marijuana laws that are different in the different states. These are laws of man, but they work the same way as any form of law. I can cross the border between two adjacent states, where one is illegal and the other is legal. The sin is only imputed, in the illegal state where there is a law. In my home state, it is legal and the cops will ignore you. But you do the exact same behavior across the next state line; all else equal, the cops are on the lookout and will bounce. Sin is not imputed where there is no law, but it will harass and punish where there is law. Jesus understood that is if you get rid of law, there will be no sin, since sin only appears because of law.

For example, when I was young and in school, you did not have to know pro-nouns other than for English Grammer. Not knowing the proper pronouns was not a sin, but it would give you a worse grade on English tests. But you would not be suspended or beat down by the student police for a B due to a pronoun error. If anything a perfect A made you a target of ribbing; Book worm or Teacher's pet.

Now, since the Left made pronouns into a school law, it is sin if you mess up pronouns. There may even a some form of punishment, since the wage of this terrible pronoun sin is harsh. It is not longer the lack of a reward, like no A on a test. Without law if you miss a pronoun you may not optimize; get an A in life, but there is no formal punishment.

The Left invented many new laws and sin that was not there a few years ago. There are green sins. These are connected to new laws. This was the problem with law ever at the time of Jesus, Humans made too many laws and thereby added too many new sins, to where the intent of law for righteousness became perverted; beat up the child with a B in pronouns.

Jesus tried to streamline the law and sin to just two guidelines, love God and Love you Neighbor. Other than that there was no sin to eat, or not know all the pronouns; sin of fear enforced with humiliation or pain. This simplicity pissed off the Pharisees, who liked to make new laws, that they did not have to follow, but they could use to lord over others. This created psychological problems, with people trying to do good, but still punished even for a minor screw ups to laws that did not deserve to be called sin; extreme punishment.

Jesus through the Holy Spirit, was able to deal a major blow to law, via attacking law at the pinnacle level; death penalty. If you are killed by the law; death penalty, that is as much as can be done to you. The righteous law reserves this for only the most evil offenders. But in the case of Jesus, they used law loopholes to kill an innocent man and son of God; death penalty, hereby making the law unacceptable to Heaven. Law was supposed to be for the righteous man; like Jesus, but the crooks made it a club of criminals, so they could even kill innocence by their law. This led to a debate in Heaven; among the Angels, and Satan had to go; law had become obsolete, since it lost its original connection to righteousness and was now being used by criminals to harm the righteous.

In the symbolism, Satan thrown from heaven implied that law of good and evil, was no longer condoned in heaven. Law was no longer condoned in heaven, since law was no longer like in the days of the elders. It had become perverted by the dynamics of the sinners in power; Satan on Earth. Satan is firmware of the brain, connected to the impact of law and not the natural part of the brain; inner self.

In the symbols of Revelations, the AntiChrist; General of Satan, makes changes to laws and times, with his law no longer condoned from above, but from below; Satan on Earth. Satan and law, once cut loose from Heaven, targets the righteous and becomes brutal; hearts grow cold.

Jesus said I have not come to bring peace but division. Once law is no longer condoned in heaven, all the unconscious and repressed sin from a lifetime of law, will be let loose, making things far worse, until the unconscious potential is used up, then there is a turnaround. If we legalized all drugs all the people who repressed the urge for years; inner sin created by law, may externalize to release, causing many yo way over do it until the potential is released and calmness appears. Then the end appears; faith and perseverance of the saints.
 

Ajax

Active Member
How is that cheating , when you are dependent on Hebrew?
He did not abuse the Scripture , he just used what he had.
He could've not make a difference , because the words na`arah , alma and btulah were are used as parthenos.

The gospel is traditionally attributed to the Apostle Matthew.
According to predominant scholarly views, it was written in the last quarter of the first century by an anonymous Jew familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture

The Gaelic war doesn't have Ceasar name on the title,but we know that it was written by Ceasar , because the contemproraries of Ceasar atributed it to his name and the following generations did the same thing.
We agree that the word used for “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14 is the Hebrew word "alma" which means simply a young woman/girl. The same meaning has the word "parthenos" in the Septuagint (which was written in 3rd century BC) as I showed you earlier. Now you said that at the time of writing the Gospel, the author knew what the word "alma" meant and despite that, he didn't use the word young woman/girl, but used the new meaning of "parthenos". If he had read the Septuagint, or if he could read Hebrew, he would have known that in both cases "alma" or "parthenos" does not mean a woman who didn't have sex.

There is proof that Matthew the disciple did not write the Gospel.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
You are kidding, right?
Read the bold text that you've written...:laughing:
Martyrs were well tormented before being usually decapitated.
Not all martyrs were tortured ( torture Not torment ) before being executed as Jesus was ( Purple triangles )
Jesus was Not decapitated before or after he was executed.
Torment in Scripture is associated with just being in jail - Matthew 18:34,30
Torture is Not the same as torment.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
That's Orthodox idea of original sin
The Son does not bear the guilt of his Father.
The focus is on essence of sinning, or thought of sinning.
Right also in that we do Not bear the sin guilt of father Adam.
Problem is because of inherited imperfection from father Adm we do sin.
Sin = death, and we sinners can Not resurrect oneself or another so we need someone who can resurrect us.
Sinless Jesus can and will resurrect us - Rev. 1:18; John 6:40,44; Acts 24:15
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We agree that the word used for “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14 is the Hebrew word "alma" which means simply a young woman/girl. The same meaning has the word "parthenos" in the Septuagint (which was written in 3rd century BC) as I showed you earlier. Now you said that at the time of writing the Gospel, the author knew what the word "alma" meant and despite that, he didn't use the word young woman/girl, but used the new meaning of "parthenos". If he had read the Septuagint, or if he could read Hebrew, he would have known that in both cases "alma" or "parthenos" does not mean a woman who didn't have sex..........................
Yes, Jewish translators of the Greek Septuagint used the Greek word parthenos at Isaiah 7:14
Is almah found at Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8
Almah can have a broader reference: either virgin or maiden.
Engaged Mary became pregnant by God's spirit and Not by man.- Matthew 1:20-24
 

Ajax

Active Member
Not all martyrs were tortured ( torture Not torment ) before being executed as Jesus was ( Purple triangles )
Jesus was Not decapitated before or after he was executed.
Torment in Scripture is associated with just being in jail - Matthew 18:34,30
Torture is Not the same as torment.
You are right.
 

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
We agree that the word used for “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14 is the Hebrew word "alma" which means simply a young woman/girl. The same meaning has the word "parthenos" in the Septuagint (which was written in 3rd century BC) as I showed you earlier. Now you said that at the time of writing the Gospel, the author knew what the word "alma" meant and despite that, he didn't use the word young woman/girl, but used the new meaning of "parthenos". If he had read the Septuagint, or if he could read Hebrew, he would have known that in both cases "alma" or "parthenos" does not mean a woman who didn't have sex.

There is proof that Matthew the disciple did not write the Gospel.
by the time Matthew wrote his Gospel, the word parthenos had come to mean 'one who has never engaged in sexual intercourse.'

I will look up into books to show you that this is accurate.
 

Ajax

Active Member
by the time Matthew wrote his Gospel, the word parthenos had come to mean 'one who has never engaged in sexual intercourse.'

I will look up into books to show you that this is accurate.
I don't dispute that. That's why I said that the author of the Gospel cheated. A reading of Isaiah 7:14-21 would make anyone but a cheater understand that these verses were not meant for Jesus. But of course at that time, very few could read.

The ancient world had no understanding that male semen and female ovum were both needed to form a fetus; this cultural milieu was conducive to miraculous birth stories, and tales of virgin birth and the impregnation of mortal women by deities were well known in the 1st-century Greco-Roman world and Second Temple Jewish works.
Virgin birth of Jesus - Wikipedia
Miraculous births - Wikipedia
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
I believe I do the same thing. I use my first name in a lesser environment than my signature name which is used in a formal environment. I believe the names an roles are different but God is the same no matter what person He is in.
Ok, but, if God is in Jesus, as Bible says, do you think that Jesus is then the God?
 

Dimi95

Χριστός ἀνέστη
I don't dispute that. That's why I said that the author of the Gospel cheated. A reading of Isaiah 7:14-21 would make anyone but a cheater understand that these verses were not meant for Jesus. But of course at that time, very few could read.
It's that what you think , Ok.
I just find it hard to belive when i look at everything.

Again,
Matthew tells that 'all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet' (Matt. 1:22). This sign, given by God to Ahaz, was fulfilled in the child Immanuel, who was born to a young woman during Ahaz’s reign. But Matthew tells us there’s a further fulfillment of this sign in the virgin birth of Jesus.

Immanuel - God with us
Yeshua - To deliver


One other important thing is they might saw Jesus Ressurected.That is what Acts is claiming and is much earlier evidence then the written Gospels.If they saw Jesus ressurected , then all this cheating arguments go in the basket.
If people saw Jesus ressurected , i don't know how someone will even try to impose something like cheating.

I understand the skepticism , but that is why is faith based , and not evidence based.I just can't go over that , it is not a coincidence.

A much stronger case can be made on the basis of the Gospel According to Luke 1:34 : 'But Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?' With this passage, the ambiguous context of parthenos becomes quite apparent in Mary’s case. She makes a clear claim to having been chaste prior to the conception of Jesus,a claim that does not rely on the use of an ambiguous word,and thus we hold as dogma that the birth of Jesus was in fact a virgin birth.

Luke 1:27 - παρθένον (parthenon)

So they all worked together on this cheating.Now its not just Paul , now they formed a group and all together they planned this.

Tomorow , maybe someone will say that those 500 also planned this.

I mean , i will be honest - i did not expect this from you.
 

Ajax

Active Member
It's that what you think , Ok.
I just find it hard to belive when i look at everything.

Again,
Matthew tells that 'all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet' (Matt. 1:22). This sign, given by God to Ahaz, was fulfilled in the child Immanuel, who was born to a young woman during Ahaz’s reign. But Matthew tells us there’s a further fulfillment of this sign in the virgin birth of Jesus.

Immanuel - God with us
Yeshua - To deliver


One other important thing is they might saw Jesus Ressurected.That is what Acts is claiming and is much earlier evidence then the written Gospels.If they saw Jesus ressurected , then all this cheating arguments go in the basket.
If people saw Jesus ressurected , i don't know how someone will even try to impose something like cheating.

I understand the skepticism , but that is why is faith based , and not evidence based.I just can't go over that , it is not a coincidence.

A much stronger case can be made on the basis of the Gospel According to Luke 1:34 : 'But Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?' With this passage, the ambiguous context of parthenos becomes quite apparent in Mary’s case. She makes a clear claim to having been chaste prior to the conception of Jesus,a claim that does not rely on the use of an ambiguous word,and thus we hold as dogma that the birth of Jesus was in fact a virgin birth.

Luke 1:27 - παρθένον (parthenon)

So they all worked together on this cheating.Now its not just Paul , now they formed a group and all together they planned this.

Tomorow , maybe someone will say that those 500 also planned this.

I mean , i will be honest - i did not expect this from you.

If you study the Bible with open mind you will see many things which don't fit.
Yes very few people saw Jesus resurrected and ...none recognized him. The gospel of Luke even says that Jesus appears to Cleopas and one other disciple, but "their eyes were holden" so that they could not recognize him!!! The disciples were fishing and saw Jesus on the beach, they went near and were afraid to go out as they didn't know who this person was. Mary Magdalene thought he was the gardener....

As for Luke, 75% of his gospel is copied from Matthew, some verses being copied word for word...

Synoptic_word-for-word.jpg
 
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