“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Soapy]

You're in a hurry...First you have to prove there is a soul, contrary to the consensus of scientists...unless you can describe in full detail what you did in the first year of your life.

‘Soul’ is the Hebrew equivalent word for Latin/Greek ‘Person / Persona’.

A ‘Person’ is ‘A Body animated by a Spirit’.

God blew the spirit into the body of [the person of] Adam - and the man (as yet unlivened soul) became a LIVING SOUL…

 

[Dimi95]

• “Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge, or showed him the path of understanding?” (Isaiah 40:14)

Did you mean to post a verse that proves against you?

My mistake , i stated in the previous answer 13-14

Isaiah 40:13-14
יג מִי-תִכֵּן אֶת-רוּחַ, יְהוָה; וְאִישׁ, עֲצָתוֹ יוֹדִיעֶ
"Who hath meted out the spirit of the LORD? Or who was His counsellor that he might instruct Him?
יד אֶת-מִי נוֹעָץ וַיְבִינֵהוּ, וַיְלַמְּדֵהוּ בְּאֹרַח מִשְׁפָּט; וַיְלַמְּדֵהוּ דַעַת, וְדֶרֶךְ תְּבוּנוֹת יוֹדִיעֶנּוּ.
With whom took He counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of right, and taught Him knowledge, and made Him to know the way of discernment?"

 

[Bthoth]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity but it is relevant to a part of trinitarianism and other ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ type of ideological beliefs, wherein it is claimed that:

1. ‘Jesus is equal to God because he is the Son of God’
2. ‘Jesus had the same nature as God so he, too, is God’
3. ‘Jesus received all things that the Father had therefore jesus is God’

These are a few of the reasonings I have heard but which carry no evidence from the scriptures... and it is from the scriptures that I seek the answer to:

• Where is this belief shown in the Old and New Testaments

I am asking:

• If the Son receives what he has from the Father, how is the son equal to the Father who gave him what he has?
• Jesus is given all power and authority BY the Father ... but only did a period of time - and even so, the ‘all things’ did not mean ‘absolutely all things’ because the Father’s “Seat of Power” was not part of the deal. This is illustrated by the stories of:

1. Joseph in Egypt given all power and authority to rule over Ha roads Kingdom ... for a period of time until the famine was over’ whence he ‘HANDED BACK POWER AND AUTHORITY TO’ Pharoah. And, Pharoah said to him, ‘EXCEPT FOR MY THRONE, you are to be Pharoah to my people’
2. Mordeciah in Persia (Book of Esther) in which King Xerxes handed over his Rulership to Mordeciah so that Mordeciah could save the Jews on the day of Purim where the Jews in that kingdom were edicted to be destroyed by the wicked Haman who tricked kings Xerxes.
3. Moses, also, was ‘GOD’ for a period of time under Pharoah. THE GOD, YAHWEH said to him that he was to be ‘God to Pharoah’ (read that as you may) and Moses even was given a high priest to mediate between himself and the people (there’s more to this than I’m saying but times and attention doesn’t warrant right now)

What these show is that even if a Father (or God) gives ‘ALL’ or designates another (obviously, a SON OF MAN) to ACT on his behalf, this still doesn’t make the trusted ‘Son’ EQUAL to the Father, to the God, who entrusted him.

Furthermore, what is it then when the Father has more than one Son - are they both (all) equal to each other ... I don’t think any scriptures credits that reasoning - does it?

Lastly, Adam, the first human, (until he sinned) is credited as being:

• ‘SON OF GOD’ (Luke 3:38)

How is it no one say that:

• ‘Adam was equal to God’

And we know the holy angels are:

• ‘Sons of God’

Why are they not said to:

• ‘Be equal to God because they are Sons of God’

And Jesus prays to the Father that the apostles should also become ‘Sons’ of God...

• ‘Equal to God’???

I’m searching for the reasoning behind ‘Son is equal to Father’ in Christianity or tradition of the Jews - or that it is a myth to substantiate a falsehood of trinitarianism.

conscious and capable.

Same framework to enable equality of mankind.

 

[Soapy]

My mistake , i stated in the previous answer 13-14

Isaiah 40:13-14
יג מִי-תִכֵּן אֶת-רוּחַ, יְהוָה; וְאִישׁ, עֲצָתוֹ יוֹדִיעֶ
"Who hath meted out the spirit of the LORD? Or who was His counsellor that he might instruct Him?
יד אֶת-מִי נוֹעָץ וַיְבִינֵהוּ, וַיְלַמְּדֵהוּ בְּאֹרַח מִשְׁפָּט; וַיְלַמְּדֵהוּ דַעַת, וְדֶרֶךְ תְּבוּנוֹת יוֹדִיעֶנּוּ.
With whom took He counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of right, and taught Him knowledge, and made Him to know the way of discernment?"

It makes no difference how much you post in regard to what you think you are asking. God is not instructed by anyone - and there’s nothing in what is said of I said that implied that God was ‘Instructed’ Bible Hub someone else - nor that God took counsel FROM anyone.

It is said that God STATED A DEED… ‘LET US….’. This is a DIRECTIVE… a statement of an act about to be performed. It does not require ‘Counselling’ nor ‘Request for input’.

Why do you think … that you have found something that does not exist?

Could you be thinking of: ‘Do you think we should …?’ ‘What do you think, should we …?’

 

[Dimi95]

Did you mean to post a verse that proves against you?

God did not ASK for enlightenment … GOD said, ‘LET US …’. That is a DIRECTIVE… not a REQUEST FOR ENLIGHTENMENT.

Yes , LET US , so Elohim(plural of ʾĔlōah) , in singular form , just as in Genesis 1:1

So why US?

Were you just kneejerking a reply because you saw the truth in what I wrote to you?

I don't know any other truth then Jesus.

Jesus claimed to be the truth
He said : 'I am the truth' , not i come with the truth.
Or he forgot to say it like that,and you will enlighten everyone?

‘The Satan’ (Lucifer) desired worship from man just as God was given worshipped by man. Why did ‘Satan’ do this if he had nothing to do with the creation of man - the body of the man as we know that God alone put the spirit into the man to make the BODY alive. A lifeless body is of no consequence in terms of glory… Satan was not to be glorified for creating the body…

What is the Spirit?

Who created the bodies of all those other millions of millions of animals?
Who put the animating spirit in them?
Are they one act - or two?
Who gets the glory of the result of the two acts?

Explain Animating Spirit and what is the Spirit.

Glorifying an angel might well lead to WORSHIP of then hence God denies them such an act upon them. But Satan’s deception should underline exactly why he was, in particular, not to be worshipped despite his action in creation.

We don't worship Angels , you confuse yourself.

GOD, the Father, ALONE, is the creator! Not THREE, not TWO, but ONE ALONE.

Explain what is one.

‘Father’ means:

• ‘He who creates’
• ‘He who brings into being’
• ‘He who GIVES LIFE …’

Many sects of Christianity claim that Jesus was the creator … but jesus is never is called ‘Father’ (‘Eternal Father’ is a title for jesus AT THE END OF TIME… not linked at all to creation IN THE BEGINNING OF TIME)

No we don't do that.
We belive in the eyewitness of the Apostoles.
That is very different from what you said.

You are full of your own words.

 

[Soapy]

Yes , LET US , so Elohim(plural of ʾĔlōah) , in singular form , just as in Genesis 1:1

So why US?


I don't know any other truth then Jesus.

Jesus claimed to be the truth
He said : 'I am the truth' , not i come with the truth.
Or he forgot to say it like that,and you will enlighten everyone?


What is the Spirit?


Explain Animating Spirit and what is the Spirit.



We don't worship Angels , you confuse yourself.


Explain what is one.


No we don't do that.
We belive in the eyewitness of the Apostoles.
That is very different from what you said.

You are full of your own words.

There’s a point at which replying to foolishness is simply distraction.

I have reached that point with you.

Bye bye….!!!

 

[Dimi95]

It makes no difference how much you post in regard to what you think you are asking. God is not instructed by anyone - and there’s nothing in what is said of I said that implied that God was ‘Instructed’ Bible Hub someone else - nor that God took counsel FROM anyone.

It is said that God STATED A DEED… ‘LET US….’. This is a DIRECTIVE… a statement of an act about to be performed. It does not require ‘Counselling’ nor ‘Request for input’.

Why do you think … that you have found something that does not exist?

Could you be thinking of: ‘Do you think we should …?’ ‘What do you think, should we …?’

I did not know that God had a lawyer.

So many people are fools to read Scriptire.

We have you , we don't need Scripture.

 

[Ajax]

‘Soul’ is the Hebrew equivalent word for Latin/Greek ‘Person / Persona’.

A ‘Person’ is ‘A Body animated by a Spirit’.

God blew the spirit into the body of [the person of] Adam - and the man (as yet unlivened soul) became a LIVING SOUL…

Can you define the "spirit" you mentioned for me please?

Because it means a great deal of things...

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Spirit ​

Spirit [N] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/spirit.html
(Heb. ruah; Gr. pneuma), properly wind or breath. In 2 Thessalonians 2:8 it means "breath," and in Eccl 8:8 the vital principle in man. It also denotes the rational, immortal soul by which man is distinguished ( Acts 7:59 ; 1 Corinthians 5:5 ; 6:20 ; 7:34 ), and the soul in its separate state ( Hebrews 12:23 ), and hence also an apparition ( Job 4:15 ; Luke 24:37 Luke 24:39 ), an angel ( Hebrews 1:14 ), and a demon ( Luke 4:36 ; 10:20 ). This word is used also metaphorically as denoting a tendency ( Zechariah 12:10 ; Luke 13:11 ).
In Rom 1:4,1Tim 3:16,2co Romans 3:18 , it designates the divine nature.

 

[Dimi95]

You're in a hurry...First you have to prove there is a soul, contrary to the consensus of scientists...unless you can describe in full detail what you did in the first year of your life.

Hm..

It is more likely that neuroscientists are often not directly concerned with the soul question at all. Even if they have a settled opinion that the soul doesn't exist, their own discipline tells us very little about the nature of the soul; at least not directly, so their belief may be misguided.

However i was speaking more philosophically.

But yes , i get you point.

 

[Soapy]

Can you define the "spirit" you mentioned for me please?

Because it means a great deal of things...

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Spirit ​

Spirit [N] Spirit - Bible Meaning & Definition - Baker's Dictionary
(Heb. ruah; Gr. pneuma), properly wind or breath. In 2 Thessalonians 2:8 it means "breath," and in Eccl 8:8 the vital principle in man. It also denotes the rational, immortal soul by which man is distinguished ( Acts 7:59 ; 1 Corinthians 5:5 ; 6:20 ; 7:34 ), and the soul in its separate state ( Hebrews 12:23 ), and hence also an apparition ( Job 4:15 ; Luke 24:37 Luke 24:39 ), an angel ( Hebrews 1:14 ), and a demon ( Luke 4:36 ; 10:20 ). This word is used also metaphorically as denoting a tendency ( Zechariah 12:10 ; Luke 13:11 ).
In Rom 1:4,1Tim 3:16,2co Romans 3:18 , it designates the divine nature.

I have outlined in this of another thread thus very fact that the same word is used or misused in several places in scriptures. This causes great confusion and opens the door for many misunderstandings in scriptures.

In the case you seek, Spirit is what animates the body of an animal - in fact, every living thing is controlled by it’s own Spirit. It us the thing that gives that entity its ability to think, to decide how when and if it should, move in any way. To decide if the body it is in needs food, sleep, drink, rest, to perform an action, to find safety, to run away from a threat, to love, to hate, to desire to procreate, to nurture, to perform husbandry, and, only in the case of humans, to seek its maker: God. Without this INSPIRATION the body of the entity is nothing but dust formed in a shape.

After the body (ONLY) of Adam was formed if was LIFELESS… it had no ANIMATING SPIRIT in it therefore it could not function - it had NO LIFE IN IT - this is not the same as being DEAD!! Something that is DEAD first has had have been ALIVE and THEN it’s Spirit is removed from it.

Scriptures tells us that ‘God is the creator of Spirits’.., and that is so. God created the angel Spirits, which are living BODILESS entities, immensely powerful and highly intelligent… but they are also under the authority of God, they MUST only do what God instructs, commands, orders, them to do… though they are not automatons - they can choose HOW they do Gods commands as long as the result is what God desired of them. Thus, they have SELF-WILL in the performing of the activities but not in the outcome which must be what God set to them.

An Angel Spirit primarily exists only in the heavenly realm but on occasions when God sends them, they can MATERIALISE into the physical realm and be seen by humans and animals. But these sightings are only ever temporary and the Spirit must return to the Spirit realm of Heaven after the task they were sent to do has been completed.

In contrast, the Spirit in a creature in the physical world REMAINS in the body in which God placed it. However, if the body of the animal (I’m talking a human now) is damaged in a way that is grievous then the Spirit knows if can no longer SUSTAIN the body if is in and it departs the body and returns to God who created it. In this state the spirit cannot ACT in any way and is said to be ‘Resting with God’… dormant, inactive, inert. The body, now devoid of an activating spirit, decays back to dust - WE CALL THAT HUMAN, ‘DEAD’…

However, at the end of time, GOD CAN CREATE A NEW BODY FOR the PERSON AND PUT HIS SPIRIT BACK INTO THAT BODY THUS MAKING THAT PERSON ALIVE AGAIN… and this is the hope we have in THE RESURRECTION!!!

 

[Trailblazer]

In contrast, the Spirit in a creature in the physical world REMAINS in the body in which God placed it. However, if the body of the animal (I’m talking a human now) is damaged in a way that is grievous then the Spirit knows if can no longer SUSTAIN the body if is in and it departs the body and returns to God who created it. In this state the spirit cannot ACT in any way and is said to be ‘Resting with God’… dormant, inactive, inert. The body, now devoid of an activating spirit, decays back to dust - WE CALL THAT HUMAN, ‘DEAD’…

However, at the end of time, GOD CAN CREATE A NEW BODY FOR the PERSON AND PUT HIS SPIRIT BACK INTO THAT BODY THUS MAKING THAT PERSON ALIVE AGAIN… and this is the hope we have in THE RESURRECTION!!!

I do not believe that the resurrection occurs at the end of time, and there is no reason to believe this. The resurrection is as described in the following scripture and it occurs when the physical body dies. Nobody is asleep in the grave and then raised back to physical life.

God is not going to restore physical life. God created the human body to be mortal, not immortal.
When we die physically we do not really die because we are not our body. Our soul is who we are and our soul is immortal.
After the physical body dies, our soul will assume another form, a spiritual body. That happens at the time of death.

1 Corinthians 15 New International Version

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

 

[Ajax]

I have outlined in this of another thread thus very fact that the same word is used or misused in several places in scriptures. This causes great confusion and opens the door for many misunderstandings in scriptures.

In the case you seek, Spirit is what animates the body......

Thank you for your reply. Is this Christian view and if I may ask of what denomination/dogma?
Also, how do we know all these?

 

[Soapy]

Thank you for your reply. Is this Christian view and if I may ask of what denomination/dogma?
Also, how do we know all these?

It is the truthful view.

The denomination is that of the true believer.

Test it with scriptures and see for yourself.

 

[GardenLady]

Is this Christian view and if I may ask of what denomination/dogma?

It is the Jehovah's Witness view, and they consider themselves the only Christians, while denying he divinity of Jesus.

 

[Colt]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity but it is relevant to a part of trinitarianism and other ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ type of ideological beliefs, wherein it is claimed that:

1. ‘Jesus is equal to God because he is the Son of God’
2. ‘Jesus had the same nature as God so he, too, is God’
3. ‘Jesus received all things that the Father had therefore jesus is God’

These are a few of the reasonings I have heard but which carry no evidence from the scriptures... and it is from the scriptures that I seek the answer to:

• Where is this belief shown in the Old and New Testaments

I am asking:

• If the Son receives what he has from the Father, how is the son equal to the Father who gave him what he has?
• Jesus is given all power and authority BY the Father ... but only did a period of time - and even so, the ‘all things’ did not mean ‘absolutely all things’ because the Father’s “Seat of Power” was not part of the deal. This is illustrated by the stories of:

1. Joseph in Egypt given all power and authority to rule over Ha roads Kingdom ... for a period of time until the famine was over’ whence he ‘HANDED BACK POWER AND AUTHORITY TO’ Pharoah. And, Pharoah said to him, ‘EXCEPT FOR MY THRONE, you are to be Pharoah to my people’
2. Mordeciah in Persia (Book of Esther) in which King Xerxes handed over his Rulership to Mordeciah so that Mordeciah could save the Jews on the day of Purim where the Jews in that kingdom were edicted to be destroyed by the wicked Haman who tricked kings Xerxes.
3. Moses, also, was ‘GOD’ for a period of time under Pharoah. THE GOD, YAHWEH said to him that he was to be ‘God to Pharoah’ (read that as you may) and Moses even was given a high priest to mediate between himself and the people (there’s more to this than I’m saying but times and attention doesn’t warrant right now)

What these show is that even if a Father (or God) gives ‘ALL’ or designates another (obviously, a SON OF MAN) to ACT on his behalf, this still doesn’t make the trusted ‘Son’ EQUAL to the Father, to the God, who entrusted him.

Furthermore, what is it then when the Father has more than one Son - are they both (all) equal to each other ... I don’t think any scriptures credits that reasoning - does it?

Lastly, Adam, the first human, (until he sinned) is credited as being:

• ‘SON OF GOD’ (Luke 3:38)

How is it no one say that:

• ‘Adam was equal to God’

And we know the holy angels are:

• ‘Sons of God’

Why are they not said to:

• ‘Be equal to God because they are Sons of God’

And Jesus prays to the Father that the apostles should also become ‘Sons’ of God...

• ‘Equal to God’???

I’m searching for the reasoning behind ‘Son is equal to Father’ in Christianity or tradition of the Jews - or that it is a myth to substantiate a falsehood of trinitarianism.

A Son of God can be divine and subordinate.

Jesus was a miraculous individual, mysterious and cryptic! He said a lot while saying very little about his origins and true office. After returning to heaven a great deal of speculation and conjecture occurred.

 

[Ajax]

It is the truthful view.

The denomination is that of the true believer.

Test it with scriptures and see for yourself.

OK, thank you... you belong to the True Believers Church then...
The fact that Christianity has broken up to so many denominations and Churches, means to me that no one knows exactly what they are talking about. Everyone is guessing... and tries to gain power and money out of it.

 

[Dimi95]

OK, thank you... you belong to the True Believers Church then...
The fact that Christianity has broken up to so many denominations and Churches, means to me that no one knows exactly what they are talking about. Everyone is guessing... and tries to gain power and money out of it.

It all started with the great schism when one of the sides chose to leave the tradition behind and implement new dogmas.

 

[Soapy]

A Son of God can be divine and subordinate.

Jesus was a miraculous individual, mysterious and cryptic! He said a lot while saying very little about his origins and true office. After returning to heaven a great deal of speculation and conjecture occurred.

I’ve always been interested, asked about, but never received a reply to:

• ‘What does it mean to be DIVINE’?

Perhaps you can enlighten me. Thanks.

 

[Soapy]

OK, thank you... you belong to the True Believers Church then...
The fact that Christianity has broken up to so many denominations and Churches, means to me that no one knows exactly what they are talking about. Everyone is guessing... and tries to gain power and money out of it.

The ‘Church’ that I belong to does not use money nor seeks power. It is not an earthly church but spiritual… as Jesus said: ‘My kingdom is not of this world’.

Therefore neither is the ‘Church’ (Congregation of believers IN God AND IN His Messiah, the man Jesus Christ) of God, of which the Christ is the head and the believers are the body. Jesus HEADS UP the Church which is OWNED by the Father, YAHWEH GOD.

‘When you pray…’ pray TO the Father THROUGH the Son… Pray in PRIVATE, pray in secret, pray in full reverence to the Father, pray for forgiveness of your sins, pray for the salvation of others, pray in the glory of the Son for his great sacrifice and for dissemination of the Testimony of the Father, pray for the fulfilment of God’s Will (though we know if is certain!) Pray IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

And That, is truth.

 

[Ajax]

It all started with the great schism when one of the sides chose to leave the tradition behind and implement new dogmas.

I can understand and accept this..