‘Appalling’: World leaders blast Russia over Navalny arrest

[Brickjectivity]

Russia and China did not turn into
liberal democracies, did they?

Both Russia and China have been advocates of progress, but politically both have had a run of bad luck with political backstabs and promises broken. This happens. The spirit of the people has been towards progress and fellowship.

I think it has a lot to do with luck, climate and natural resources. Climate has a lot to do with progress in my opinion. China has a larger temperate region than Russia and so has a better chance of turning around sooner I think. Its got some interesting developments in rice technology going for it, and its increasingly better fed, housed and educated. Its got a lot going for it, so its too soon to count it as a permanent autocracy. Russia on the other hand has limited natural resources. Its chances for progress seem less to me.

 

[Wandering Monk]

'Alexey Navalny has been arrested at a Moscow airport as he tried to enter the country from Germany, where he had spent five months recovering from an alleged nerve agent poisoning that he blamed on the Kremlin.

The Kremlin critic’s detention on Sunday at passport control in Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport was widely expected as Russia’s prisons service said he had violated parole terms from a suspended sentence on a 2014 embezzlement conviction.

The prison service said he would be held in custody until a court rules on his case. No date for a court appearance was immediately announced.'

Read more here: ‘Appalling’: World leaders blast Russia over Navalny arrest

For some reason, Ghandi springs to mind.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No it's not rumour. It's well-attested fact. The authorities in several countries have had samples and confirmed it is novichok. Again.

Bellingcat knows the names of the poisoners and that they have shadowed Navalny on up to 40 internal flight before attacking him. Navalny himself rang up one of them, pretending to be a superior officer and got the guy to confirm to him how they did it (via his underpants, sent off to the hotel laundry). It's all on tape.

And it's not a new grey era for Russia. Nothing has ever really changed: they have been doing this sort of thing ever since the days of the Tsar's Okhrana and it continued right through the Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev eras. Putin's secret police poisoned Litvinenko in London, with a radioisotope of polonium - no doubt chosen because it is something only a state actor could possibly have access to - in 2006.

What they do is choose methods indicating unambiguously that it is the state, so as to terrify people into submission, while ritually denying it is anything to do with them.

I wouldn't say nothing has really changed. I'd say that they are having difficulty but have made a lot of progress since the Tsars. I just think this is a bad development. They are in for some trouble.

 

[exchemist]

I wouldn't say nothing has really changed. I'd say that they are having difficulty but have made a lot of progress since the Tsars. I just think this is a bad development. They are in for some trouble.

Well of course things have changed since the Tsars. But Russia has never, ever, had a democratic government in its history. However it has always had secret police, indulging in political assassinations. (Trotsky in Mexico with an ice axe? Go figure. And so on.) So this behaviour is not a "development", so much as a continuation of ingrained habits.

Will Russia ever be a democracy, without secret police? I have my doubts.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well of course things have changed since the Tsars. But Russia has never, ever, had a democratic government in its history. However it has always had secret police, indulging in political assassinations. (Trotsky in Mexico with an ice axe? Go figure. And so on.) So this behaviour is not a "development", so much as a continuation of ingrained habits.

Will Russia ever be a democracy, without secret police? I have my doubts.

Never? Maybe. They tried to have a pure communist government, and that took a lot of heart, but many, many starved. The communist government failed them partly through its inefficiency and graft, but I think it was the climate which defeated them and which eventually undid the soviet compact. Its so cold that you can't do anything there. If you run out of food you simply die, because you can't stay warm. Its sad, very tragic. They keep trying, but its so damned cold.

 

[exchemist]

Never? Maybe. They tried to have a pure communist government, and that took a lot of heart, but many, many starved. The communist government failed them partly through its inefficiency and graft, but I think it was the climate which defeated them and which eventually undid the soviet compact. Its so cold that you can't do anything there. If you run out of food you simply die, because you can't stay warm. Its sad, very tragic. They keep trying, but its so damned cold.

They never really did. The bolsheviks were a cynical bunch from the outset. And the social engineering they tried was diabolically brutal. They even tried to do away with the family, separating children permanently from their parents, breaking the most fundamental bond that exists in the human race. And the reason people starved was the placing of ideology above common sense. It's not just sad, it was profoundly deranged, to the point of being evil. And then came Stalin's Terror.

Throughout all this, needless to say, there was an active secret police, informing on people, taking them away and imprisoning them.

 

[Audie]

Both Russia and China have been advocates of progress, but politically both have had a run of bad luck with political backstabs and promises broken. This happens. The spirit of the people has been towards progress and fellowship.

I think it has a lot to do with luck, climate and natural resources. Climate has a lot to do with progress in my opinion. China has a larger temperate region than Russia and so has a better chance of turning around sooner I think. Its got some interesting developments in rice technology going for it, and its increasingly better fed, housed and educated. Its got a lot going for it, so its too soon to count it as a permanent autocracy. Russia on the other hand has limited natural resources. Its chances for progress seem less to me.

I hope so.

 

[Brickjectivity]

They never really did. The bolsheviks were a cynical bunch from the outset. And the social engineering they tried was diabolically brutal. They even tried to do away with the family, separating children permanently from their parents, breaking the most fundamental bond that exists in the human race. And the reason people starved was the placing of ideology above common sense. It's not just sad, it was profoundly deranged, to the point of being evil.

Good points,and I don't deny what you are saying. I distinguish the Bolsheviks from the common people, the people who were betrayed both by politicians and by their climate. Every country has its evil deranged members, but not in every country do you die from being locked outdoors. If you are starving in India you can linger on a street corner. You can't do that in Russia. That helps the Bolshevik and the Tsar against the peasant.

 

[exchemist]

Good points,and I don't deny what you are saying. I distinguish the Bolsheviks from the common people, the people who were betrayed both by politicians and by their climate. Every country has its evil deranged members, but not in every country do you die from being locked outdoors. If you are starving in India you can linger on a street corner. You can't do that in Russia. That helps the Bolshevik and the Tsar against the peasant.

Certainly the room for error in that climate is not great, I agree.

I think one of the great problems historically (this from discussion with my son who is studying history) has been the distances. The Tsar could never control his dominions effectively in a country in which it took months to get a reply to a letter. He had to rule through extensive delegation to local leaders who he could not hold accountable, and so there was huge corruption and unbridled use of power by these people. It may be, I suppose that modern communications will eventually shine enough light on the murky goings on that the people see what is done and can coordinate a response to it. Against that, though, we have the exponentially growing power of the surveillance state, of course. So it's a two-edged sword - look at China.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Certainly the room for error in that climate is not great, I agree.

I think one of the great problems historically (this from discussion with my son who is studying history) has been the distances. The Tsar could never control his dominions effectively in a country in which it took months to get a reply to a letter. He had to rule through extensive delegation to local leaders who he could not hold accountable, and so there was huge corruption and unbridled use of power by these people. It may be, I suppose that modern communications will eventually shine enough light on the murky goings on that the people see what is done and can coordinate a response to it. Against that, though, we have the exponentially growing power of the surveillance state, of course. So it's a two-edged sword - look at China.

Yes, that Tsar didn't have lightning fast communications, but he also didn't have an educated populace. They were kept ignorant and servile in heart. His government was also never free of intrigue, and his life was always in danger.

I look at China. Chinese polity is cracks covered in spackle. For this moment the government (formed less than 10 years ago by a coup) is focused on establishing its questionable legitimacy. Soon after this honeymoon it will start to lose interest in governing. Beyond that I will refrain from predictions, but we've all seen what happens repeatedly in history books.

 

[Brickjectivity]

'Alexey Navalny has been arrested at a Moscow airport as he tried to enter the country from Germany, where he had spent five months recovering from an alleged nerve agent poisoning that he blamed on the Kremlin.

The Kremlin critic’s detention on Sunday at passport control in Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport was widely expected as Russia’s prisons service said he had violated parole terms from a suspended sentence on a 2014 embezzlement conviction.

The prison service said he would be held in custody until a court rules on his case. No date for a court appearance was immediately announced.'

Read more here: ‘Appalling’: World leaders blast Russia over Navalny arrest

Its great that you stay on top of world events. Doesn't that make you feel gloomy? I'm extremely lax about keeping up with the news, but I do what I can. I peek.

 

[danieldemol]

Its great that you stay on top of world events. Doesn't that make you feel gloomy? I'm extremely lax about keeping up with the news, but I do what I can. I peek.

No, I tend to optimistically feel that most of these problems will eventually be solved as long as we can survive global warming.

So to me the news is just identifying problems and I see that as the first step to the solution.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No, I tend to optimistically feel that most of these problems will eventually be solved as long as we can survive global warming.

So to me the news is just identifying problems and I see that as the first step to the solution.

What's really terrible for me is not international news but the fact that the technology for immortality is so close but out of reach. I'm going to get old and die, but people may stop dying soon after. Bummer for me! Still I wish future gens well and hope that immortality works out for them and doesn't cause more problems than it resolves.

 

[Audie]

Yes, that Tsar didn't have lightning fast communications, but he also didn't have an educated populace. They were kept ignorant and servile in heart. His government was also never free of intrigue, and his life was always in danger.

I look at China. Chinese polity is cracks covered in spackle. For this moment the government (formed less than 10 years ago by a coup) is focused on establishing its questionable legitimacy. Soon after this honeymoon it will start to lose interest in governing. Beyond that I will refrain from predictions, but we've all seen what happens repeatedly in history books.

A good news source is the South China Morning Post, check it out

 

[Brickjectivity]

A good news source is the South China Morning Post, check it out

Thanks I have jotted that down and will take a look at it, Audie.

 

[Audie]

Thanks I have jotted that down and will take a look at it, Audie.

Available on line.

 

[Brickjectivity]

A good news source is the South China Morning Post, check it out

I see that article China thinks democracy is imploding but may be missing the point. Interesting title. I haven't read it, yet; but I see it.