A real muslim needed to enlighten me

hello to all and salam (i hope no one is offended as i am not muslim but salam is also a malay word (the national language of malaysia) and it means greetings)..

im here in search for answers..
my girlfriend is a muslim and pls don't stop reading now..
i know its a taboo amongst many muslims about having a relationship (sexual especially) with a non-muslim.. but pls help me and enlighten me..
i have many questions..
im from malaysia..
that is proof that i have many muslim friends and know a fair amount about islam..
im not ignorant and at the same time im here just to obtain knowledge and understanding..
i just need someone to talk to and learn from.
what im really looking for is a true muslim who is calm and open minded enough to talk to me and answer many questions that has been dwelling at the back of my mind..
i do hope i will get a reply as soon as possible especially after the beautiful response this website has given me in just a few hours of my registration here..
thank u so much..

Salam
I can help you in one condition; i want to travel to Malaysia so if you bought the tickets, your questions will be answered. :angel2: Just kidding!

So why don't you start asking your questions and we will try to answer them? My brothers and sisters here are just great.
Or do you want it in the form of a private chat?

Hey buddy. Go ahead and shoot. We are prepared insha Allah to answer whatever questions you may have as honestly and openly as we possibly can. We're waiting......

Yes we are waiting... and welcome to RF

Peace

I dont participate much these days in RF, but go ahead and ask, I may have something to say

Bring it all dude

Salam

No one is offended that you are not a muslim, and about Salam, it means peace so Alsalam Alikum and peace be upon you my friend.

As you can see, my location states that i'm in KL which is of course Kuala Lumpur. I'm studying now at the International Islamic Uinversity Malaysia, well known by the locals there by "UIA Gombak".

If you have any question please don't hesitate to ask. We will try to help as much as we can, and even if we didn't know the answer, we will try to direct you to where you can get your answer "God willing".

That's why i love you guys! :group:

aneed2k said:

hello to all and salam (i hope no one is offended as i am not muslim but salam is also a malay word (the national language of malaysia) and it means greetings)..

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Wa Alikum salaam wa rehmatulla hee wa baraka tu ho!

aneed2k said:

im here in search for answers..
my girlfriend is a muslim and pls don't stop reading now..
i know its a taboo amongst many muslims about having a relationship (sexual especially) with a non-muslim.. but pls help me and enlighten me..

Click to expand...

I can see many Muslims in Muslims world but following their parents religion. Mean they take special care of their family rules while ignoring ALlah's rules.
Many Muslims family rules don't allow even to see the girl before marriage but it is not in Islam so,
Allah Almighty offers His slaves (means man or woman what ever) in this Quranic verse:

24:32] You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married. They may marry the righteous among your male and female servants, if they are poor. GOD will enrich them from His grace. GOD is Bounteous, Knower.

In Islam, It is not prohibited to have a relationship with a non-Muslim girl. But (sextual relation ship) is all prohibited whether you have with Muslims or non Muslim before mariage.

I'm not a scolar but I aslo need to ask the same question to the scholar, who replied me so....
But my opinion is, for such matter we must consult to a Scholar.

i found all of you in this thread ,so i couldn't resist posting in here too ,
welcome Aneed2k :flower:

it is really so nice to see the willingness that all of u have to answer my questions..
thank u all...

i have just figured out that the emblems next to all ur profile names are actually awards and its so nice to see my questions are going to be met by awarded members of the site and even moderators of the forum..

i run a forum website myself but it is more concentrated on computers and troubleshooting as that is another hobby that i am very much into and i know how much work it is to be a moderator and webmaster so once again i thank u all for actually spending time to educate me.

well first let me explain my history of Islam..
well.. malaysia is an Islamic country.. so that fact itself has exposed me to Islam in many ways.. as malaysians, we are given a lot of exposure to Islam and the history of Islam since a very young age.. it actually is embedded into our education system so even non-muslims would know a lot about Islam.. it is sad that the exposure is not mutual in this country but there is actually no one to blame because our political system is such.

due to this fact, many non-muslims opt to send their children to english missionary schools ( schools built in malaysia by the british during the colonial time and are still run till today with major funding and support by nearby churches ).
even though the national education syllabus is still the same ( with alot of emphasis on Islamic teachings especially in our history classes ), these schools have a bit more lenient approach to the religious subject matter.. i spent 2 years in one of these system of schools during my high school years, known in most countries as a-levels..
but fortunately for me i have been in the mainstream of education in malaysia throughout the rest of my education in malaysia (11years).. thus i have been exposed to a lot of islamic thinking and exposure..
but i do not generalise the way of thinking because of the people as it is not fair.. this is because we have to understand that during the schooling years we are subject to a whole lot of lies from our own parents..(ie.. santa claus brings presents and the tooth fairy... lols)
so, much of the credit has to be given to these kids imagination and also fairy tales that parents tell them..
well it took longer than i expected but i hope now all of u understand that i have not come here to judge but actually am in look for answers for my personal ponders...

well for my first question.. let it be just a simple one.. i have mentioned that my girlfriend is a muslim.. well now i shall give u a little more in depth look about her personality..

she is a born muslim but doesnt practice much of islam anymore.. this is due to the modern lifestyle that both of us live and the way we think.. we believe as long as u are a part of humanity and dont hurt another, god's grace will always be upon u.. well that is our belief.. ok now that is her.. and once more the country gets involved.. in malaysia there is no such thing as leaving islam.. many have tried and they have spent countless decades in court fighting their case.. so that option is out and i dont want that for her too.. to me islam is a community god had created for her and she should be thankful for it.. in malaysia, once again, there is no such thing of a non-muslim marrying a muslim and not converting to islam too.. so once again.. the dilemma is such.. for the respect i give for islam and her i expect a little for my religion and its not because i am religious or anything.. its because i consider it a gift that god provided upon my birth.. so why should i leave it and be ungrateful to Him?

now to all my patient friend... how do we handle this predicament that we are in?
we both are so happy with each other and really would love spending the rest of our lives with each other.. it makes us so frustrated that many laws get in the way of our pursuit to happiness..

pls let this be the beginning to many more interesting exchanges between us all..
thank u so much for spending so much time reading such a long thread.. i shall try to keep it short from here forth but i believe that the personal backgrounds of the 2 parties involved was rather relevant..

thank u so much..

she is a born muslim but doesnt practice much of islam anymore.. this is due to the modern lifestyle that both of us live and the way we think.. we believe as long as u are a part of humanity and dont hurt another, god's grace will always be upon u.. well that is our belief.. ok now that is her.. and once more the country gets involved.. in malaysia there is no such thing as leaving islam.. many have tried and they have spent countless decades in court fighting their case.. so that option is out and i dont want that for her too.. to me islam is a community god had created for her and she should be thankful for it.. in malaysia, once again, there is no such thing of a non-muslim marrying a muslim and not converting to islam too.. so once again.. the dilemma is such.. for the respect i give for islam and her i expect a little for my religion and its not because i am religious or anything.. its because i consider it a gift that god provided upon my birth.. so why should i leave it and be ungrateful to Him?

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Ok. First I would like to address the issue of you two being together. FOr her as a muslim woman, it is indeed forbidden for her to marry a non-muslim male. This is forbidden under Islamic law, that is independant of what country you are in. I am completely unfamiliar with the way the malaysian government inacts muslim law, so excuse my ignorance on that. However, due to the prohibition of marriage as I mentioned, may be why that law is what it is in Malaysia. I know nothing of whether or not Malaysia wishes to be a secular country or not. If I am to judge it based on what I have seen of other muslim countries who only enact parts of Islamic law, it can't be all that good. If a country wishes to enact Islamic law, they must do all of the laws. If the law is only partially applied, it makes for confusion and unpleasant hardship on the citizens.

Now moving on from that. The best possible solution is for you to become muslim. Easier said than done, because no one can force that on you, and I have no idea if you're even interested in that. The other issue is her. It would be best for her to educate herself on what Islam means and what benefit it has. Many people seem to seperate humanitarian thought from Islam. It is not true that they cannot co-exist. A very large part of a muslims individual success in this world and the next depends on humanitarian effort. We cannot be individually successful without teamwork. So her mindset for not wanting to harm anyone else, and for wishing to be a benefit to others, does not have to exist seperately from Islamic ideals.


In reality I cannot speak to your personal relationship. I can only give you as much of a broad picture of Islam and what it means on a spiritual level to be a muslim. Islam is beyond a religion with a bunch of rituals that mean nothing. Islam is a total life-covering entity designed by Allah to encompass the life of every person accepting it. A wonderful ayat of Quran demonstrates the description of what is a muslim.

177. It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and gives the Zakât, and who fulfill their covenant when they make it, and who are As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.) in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al­Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2).



This Ayat is absolutely beautiful in its description of a believer. Islam is not summed up by the wearing of hijab, or jumu'ah prayer, or any of the rituals invloved. This ayat explains better than I ever could about the things that are behind the repititious actions. Your girlfriend needs to try as best she can to understand this. Islam is something that should be used for the betterment of herself and others.

I know I didn't cover all what you asked. Perhaps another muslim more knowledgeable can do it.

Permit me if I can...I know you meant to ask Muslims but I'm Hindu also and I recently got married. My husband and I are both Hindus but belong to different denominations. I'm a Vedic Hindu and he was initiated by a Puranic Pundit. He agreed to get married under Vedic rites and although he did not officially convert to a Vedic Hindu, it is required by law that we have the same denomination listed on our Marriage Certificate. So under his religion, we simply listed "Vedic Hindu", just for the paperwork. These demoninations do not matter to us as we have basically the same views on God and Religion. I don't know if you can do this in Malaysia as well. Just agree to choose one of the religions to list for the paperwork but at the end of the day you do not officially convert. Now.....as for the marriage ceremony...will there be any or are you just going through the legal process alone? If there is going to be a ceremony, your family and her family might try to get involved and try to get their own way but remember that this is between you and your girl. Stand up for what you believe in if any family members try to get nosey. My dad had to stand up to my grandmother for my wedding. I'm not sure if you can do this with Islam but I'm sure one of my Muslim friends her can tell you if you want....I know about a Christian guy who married a Hindu girl and they got married under Hindu rites one day and Christian rites another day. They still practice their individual religions. As I said, I'm not sure if this can be done with Islam. If that is not an option, perhaps when you finish the legal process of being married you can both pray to God in your own way and ask for blessings for your new life together.

EDIT: I see that FVM posted when I was still typing and cleared up the last part of my post.

For short, there is no way for both of you to get together as a family, under Islamic rules.

A muslim woman is not allowed under any circumstances to marry a man that embraces a different faith. On the other hand, a man also may not marry a woman out of his religion, unless she is a Christian or a Jew, which by Quran are referred to as the People of the Book. People of the book means that these religions share similar religious backgrounds.

A husband provides the leadership in a family. A muslim woman should not follow the leadership of someone that does not share the same faith values.

As my personal opinion, I believe that God created us to be one, not to be against each other. You must be aware that when both you decide to get married, both of you are going to encounter a lot of differences. The question is that will you be able to maintain the survival of your family?

Judgement Day said:

A muslim woman is not allowed under any circumstances to marry a man that embraces a different faith. On the other hand, a man also may not marry a woman out of his religion, unless she is a Christian or a Jew, which by Quran are referred to as the People of the Book. People of the book means that these religions share similar religious backgrounds.

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Does it specifically mention Christians and Jews or just anyone who shares similar beliefs? I ask this because I heard about a Muslim who got married to a Hindu but only after the terms of the Vedas were specified. Most Hindus follow Puranic texts but Vedas are the pillars of Hinduism. I am not too knowledgable about the Vedas but I do know that in the Vedic times, there were no Temples, shrines or any images that represented God. God was worshipped as formless just as how Muslims do it.

I'm just trying to think of all posibble options to help out our brother.

The Quran specifically mentions the Jews and the Christians. The hindu religion is intersting to me and not at all what I thought it was. It seems to have been built upon the very same ideals of strict monotheism that Islam teaches. I'll have to mosey on over one day and ask what changed.


Anyway as what JD said is true. In an islamically constructed family it is the husband that has the leadership role. As a woman I know from experience that while both parties influence each other a great deal, it is in different ways. A husband who is good to his muslim wife, can through his good attitude and good character towards her, persuade her to become less and less invloved with islam if he so chooses. He could cause her to share his outlooks on various issues that are contrary to Islam, and she could easily come out of islam through this method without realizing it herself.

Being married with two different outlooks on life, and two different religions can create a myriad of problems depending on how strongly they feel about it. A muslims iman fluctuates, so if it is the case that later in life she feels more strongly about islam, and pracitices it more, and he is not muslim that will create big problems. If that trend continues it will break the marriage and the hearts, and we don't want that.


On the other hand it is not my place to dictate the relationships of others. Each person has their own test that Allah send them through.

aneed2k said:

well for my first question.. let it be just a simple one.. i have mentioned that my girlfriend is a muslim.. well now i shall give u a little more in depth look about her personality..

she is a born muslim but doesnt practice much of islam anymore.. this is due to the modern lifestyle that both of us live and the way we think.. we believe as long as u are a part of humanity and dont hurt another, god's grace will always be upon u.. well that is our belief.. ok now that is her.. and once more the country gets involved.. in malaysia there is no such thing as leaving islam.. many have tried and they have spent countless decades in court fighting their case.. so that option is out and i dont want that for her too.. to me islam is a community god had created for her and she should be thankful for it.. in malaysia, once again, there is no such thing of a non-muslim marrying a muslim and not converting to islam too.. so once again.. the dilemma is such.. for the respect i give for islam and her i expect a little for my religion and its not because i am religious or anything.. its because i consider it a gift that god provided upon my birth.. so why should i leave it and be ungrateful to Him?

now to all my patient friend... how do we handle this predicament that we are in?

..

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Typically, such questions are answered by Msulims' scholars, for the sake of serious matters!

But If you wish to know about how we comment on the issue, then here is my view...

Just VIEW, coz I'm not illigible to verdict something....
(I'm putting your facts in purple color)

1) we can't change goverment Law, as you mentioned "once more the country gets involved.. in malaysia there is no such thing as leaving islam.. many have tried and they have spent countless decades in court fighting their case.. so that option is out and i dont want that for her too" So we have to deal the situatin while taking care of such matter.
2) You also loves here so much that you don't bother whether she is Muslim or not. Yet, you hav great respect for her religion as you have great love for her.

3) As you mentioed another issue "once again, there is no such thing of a non-muslim marrying a muslim and not converting to islam too" So we have to deal the situation while taking care of this matter!

4) she is a born muslim but doesnt practice much of islam anymore.. this is due to the modern lifestyle that both of us live and the way we think.. we believe as long as u are a part of humanity and dont hurt another, god's grace will always be upon u.. well that is our belief It means she have don't care of whatever religious teachings are, but she is a sympathytic girl towards the human (Creature of God Almighty)

So, there are three steps, or you may say three choices you have.....(Don't forget according to my view, and I'm not a scholar )

1) Do what your heart says for her, struggle your hard to get her, while facing the whole society and Laws of your country (as you mentioned)

2) Try to solve the matter with pateince and rather she is not able to leave Islam, but you can leave for her (if you really love her)

3) Or if you notice that you have more Love in your heart for God then her, means you don't wish to be ungratefull to Him, then you must drop one and chose another.

I know it's not simple, very tough to say about "drop" one choice...

But if solution, then one choice!

Rather She or your religion!

Judgement Day said:

For short, there is no way for both of you to get together as a family, under Islamic rules.

A muslim woman is not allowed under any circumstances to marry a man that embraces a different faith. On the other hand, a man also may not marry a woman out of his religion, unless she is a Christian or a Jew, which by Quran are referred to as the People of the Book. People of the book means that these religions share similar religious backgrounds.

A husband provides the leadership in a family. A muslim woman should not follow the leadership of someone that does not share the same faith values.

As my personal opinion, I believe that God created us to be one, not to be against each other. You must be aware that when both you decide to get married, both of you are going to encounter a lot of differences. The question is that will you be able to maintain the survival of your family?

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further, I personally support this idea!

fullyveiled muslimah said:

The Quran specifically mentions the Jews and the Christians. The hindu religion is intersting to me and not at all what I thought it was. It seems to have been built upon the very same ideals of strict monotheism that Islam teaches. I'll have to mosey on over one day and ask what changed.

Click to expand...

Most people are surprised about the monotheism aspect.

Being married with two different outlooks on life, and two different religions can create a myriad of problems depending on how strongly they feel about it. A muslims iman fluctuates, so if it is the case that later in life she feels more strongly about islam, and pracitices it more, and he is not muslim that will create big problems. If that trend continues it will break the marriage and the hearts, and we don't want that.

Click to expand...

I hope everything works out for them. Weddings can be so confusing at times.

From his posts, they both seem to be more spiritual than religious, but as you said, someone's outlook can change.

Ah well, let us know what you think aneed2k.

Judgement Day said:

For short, there is no way for both of you to get together as a family, under Islamic rules.

A muslim woman is not allowed under any circumstances to marry a man that embraces a different faith. On the other hand, a man also may not marry a woman out of his religion, unless she is a Christian or a Jew, which by Quran are referred to as the People of the Book. People of the book means that these religions share similar religious backgrounds.

A husband provides the leadership in a family. A muslim woman should not follow the leadership of someone that does not share the same faith values.

As my personal opinion, I believe that God created us to be one, not to be against each other. You must be aware that when both you decide to get married, both of you are going to encounter a lot of differences. The question is that will you be able to maintain the survival of your family?

Click to expand...

fullyveiled muslimah said:

Anyway as what JD said is true. In an islamically constructed family it is the husband that has the leadership role. As a woman I know from experience that while both parties influence each other a great deal, it is in different ways. A husband who is good to his muslim wife, can through his good attitude and good character towards her, persuade her to become less and less invloved with islam if he so chooses. He could cause her to share his outlooks on various issues that are contrary to Islam, and she could easily come out of islam through this method without realizing it herself.

Being married with two different outlooks on life, and two different religions can create a myriad of problems depending on how strongly they feel about it. A muslims iman fluctuates, so if it is the case that later in life she feels more strongly about islam, and pracitices it more, and he is not muslim that will create big problems. If that trend continues it will break the marriage and the hearts, and we don't want that.


On the other hand it is not my place to dictate the relationships of others. Each person has their own test that Allah send them through.

Click to expand...

:yes: I can't say more.

Peace

now that i have all ur replies.. generally i see that im in a helpless position.. am i right?
ok... well i have a few questions based on the posted replies..

Now moving on from that. The best possible solution is for you to become muslim. Easier said than done, because no one can force that on you, and I have no idea if you're even interested in that. The other issue is her. It would be best for her to educate herself on what Islam means and what benefit it has. Many people seem to seperate humanitarian thought from Islam. It is not true that they cannot co-exist. A very large part of a muslims individual success in this world and the next depends on humanitarian effort. We cannot be individually successful without teamwork. So her mindset for not wanting to harm anyone else, and for wishing to be a benefit to others, does not have to exist seperately from Islamic ideals.

Click to expand...

ok.. i'd really love to know the benefits u mentioned in the above quote.. pls enlighten me.. and on top of that.. i also would like to know why is it forbidden, the marriage between a muslim and a non-muslim? can't we co-exist as just two human beings without the intervention of religion?

the subject about family is not much of a problem as our parents understand and they are perfectly alright with it.. but on a more personal basis i dont want to leave my religion and i dont want her to leave her's.. it is not fair to each of us and it is also being ungrateful to the gift given to us upon birth..

another question is this.. according to islam.. doing good and good deeds are very important.. now i like to see me and my girlfriend as very good ppl.. we are loving and we both have never hurt another living creature and at all given opportunities, we lend a helping hand if we are able to... now i see us as a boon to humanity together.. we might probably be able to help more together rather than being apart.. so is her good deeds recognized by God and mine not?

i posted this question on another forum before and the answer i got is no.. as in my deeds are not recognized by God as i have not been serving God... it has something to do with giving God a partner, which i didnt very much understand..

pls explain to me regarding these topics in particular..
thank u all so much....