School, NYPD 'cannot guarantee Jewish students' safety - Columbia rabbi tells Jewish students to leave Campus

If doing what some say in regard to Israeli's supposed genocide of Palestinians was actually true, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left in Gaza at this point.

Also, some here seem to forget what the power is providing incentive and weapons for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.

Heyo said:

Then they have very bad aim.

We are getting way off topic. As I said, this is not about the Israel-Palestine conflict, in which I have no sympathies. They have been at each other's throats for ages, and there are no heroes. (And no intention to stop.)
This is about that conflict poisoning the rest of the world and dragging nations and people into it on one side or the other.
You get Palestine sympathizers to attack Jews, who aren't Israelis, and may not even support Israel.
You get Israel sympathizer to attack civil liberties like the right to protest their government for militarily supporting Israel (and are in danger to be drawn into other conflicts started by Israel).

What I call for, is to stop radicalization. When you take a side, you either support a terrorist organization or a government committing war crimes. You don't look good either way.

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I tend to agree with this viewpoint, as I think radicalization begets radicalization - which is something I've noticed for the past several years.

I also think we're way past the point of "who started it."

As for the protests in the U.S. and other countries away from the conflict zone, they have every right to do so. I can see that they're as much as protesting against the U.S. government as they are against the Israeli government.

There are reasons why I somewhat detest the ways and means by which our government has conducted foreign policy for the past 79 years. The only thing I can give them credit for is that, at least they haven't blown up the world in a global thermonuclear war (not yet, anyway). That's not to deny that other governments do some pretty crappy things, too (to include privately-owned armies and terrorist organizations).

I'm not sure how to stop radicalization at this point; it seems to be growing in certain sectors. I was listening to the local Fox Radio affiliate the other day, and they were talking about Columbia University. They were painting it as "Muslim terrorists taking over a college campus," which is the kind of thing that can frighten and even radicalize Middle America. They may or may not take a position on the actual conflict, but they might feel compelled to want to defend America from terrorists.

This is where, I think, we need to be more careful and prudent, because a dangerous number of people seem convinced that America needs a "strong leader" to protect and defend America.

jbg said:

Columbia rabbi tells Jewish students to leave campus, warns that school, NYPD 'cannot guarantee your safety' (link):

Rabbin Buecher appears to be a responsible, middle-of-the-road Rabbi. Are pogroms, or a Hamas-style attack on the way? Columbia and the NYPD appear to be hitting the "protesting" students with a wet noodle.
My own "vote" if I have one would be for the Jewish students, and others, to leave campus promptly. It will be impossible for meaningful final exams to be administered. It is high time that Jewish donors park their money elsewhere. The temples of higher education are being defiled. This situation needs to be brought to a head, but not with violence.

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Is it one of the responsibilities of the NYPD to guarantee your safety?

metis said:

If doing what some say in regard to Israeli's supposed genocide of Palestinians was actually true, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left in Gaza at this point.

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"It's not one big war crime! It's many separate, unrelated, smaller war crimes!"

metis said:

Also, some here seem to forget what the power is providing incentive and weapons for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.

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They're supported by Iran, mostly. Now please connect the dots from "Hamas is supported by Iran" to "displacing and murdering civilians in Gaza is okay."

Clizby Wampuscat said:

Just like Hamas' raining down death and destruction on Israel prompted this response.

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Israel earns the gold medal for death & destruction.
It's far far worse than Hamas.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

Why do you take the side of Hamas?

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I don't.
You fail to understand Hamas's origin stemming
from Israel's relentless nearly century long brutality
against Palestinians. To recognize this is not to
support Hamas.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

You know very well that if Hamas had the firepower Israel does they would destroy Israel.

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But Hamas doesn't have that firepower.
Genocide shouldn't be conducted based
upon a hypothetical scenario.
And perhaps if it did have such firepower,
it might instead force Israel to provide
justice to Palestinians.
But that cannot happen when Israel wields
the most powerful military in the world with
impunity. Israel's lust for vengeance goes
unchecked.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

That is what the leaders have said for 40+ years now. The violence will only stop if Hamas is destroyed.

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Destroying Hamas would only cause
another to rise from its ashes.
Israel's increasing oppression & murder
hasn't resulted in peace yet. Zionists
blame Palestinians, but fail to consider
their own actions. It's insanity. It's bigotry.

metis said:

If doing what some say in regard to Israeli's supposed genocide of Palestinians was actually true, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left in Gaza at this point.

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You're wrong.
Genocide is a process. The fact that isn't finished
doesn't mean it's not "genocide". Israel is trying
hard to kill by bombing & starvation. It's trying
to rid them by negotiating relocation to Africa.
This is genocide.
To excuse what Israel does by denying a word is
utterly evil. This is not what your Jesus would do.
(IMO)

Revoltingest said:

Whether Jewish or Muslim, I advise them to stay
on campus. People are being attacked elsewhere
too (eg, a Muslim boy murdered) so the danger
appears to be wider than just universities.
Remaining on campus also affords the opportunity
to foment peaceful co-existence.

Besides....cops don't guarantee anyone's safety.
That's not their job, & they take not guaranteeing
anyone's safety to heart.

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Yeah. Not to sound cold or uncaring but there's two parts to this.
One is what you mentioned. The cops have no legal duty or requirement to keep any of us safe, and if you're male or a minority then you might just be calling your executioner if you get the cops involved.
Two is thats life for minorities in America. Black, Native, queer, Latino, female, mentally ill, violence against these groups are so normalized that the cops use these groups as their personal shooting gallery while a large portion of America will vote for a third time for a man who believes if you're can walk up to a woman she'll let you sexually assault her, and her represents a party that is enacting dangerous, destructive and potentially deadly legislation against women.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

That's the Israeli government's official line, but it can't be reconciled with what's happening in Gaza. It is a genocide.

The IDF is killing civilians in Gaza at a rate far beyond that of any other recent conflict. Mass graves are being found filled with Palestinians killed by the IDF whose hands were bound by zip ties.

1.7 million Palestinians have been displaced; meanwhile, the Israeli government has approved seizure of land for thousands of new illegal Israeli homes and right-wing Israeli political groups are calling for the full-scale permanent displacement of the Palestinian people from Gaza.

This is ethnic cleansing. This is genocide.

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It is Hamas made the decision to put civilians in harm's way. From every moral point of view they started and lost a war And have no hope of winning. All that they can do is kill people. Even Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany surrendered to the inevitable allied victory. Only in an alternate reality does Hamas have any chance of winning militarily. They can only win in the "court of public opinion" to the extent that the "court of opinion" is able to restrain Israel from finishing the job. The ability to take innocent victims is not the ability to win a war.

Shadow Wolf said:

Yeah. Not to sound cold or uncaring but there's two parts to this.
One is what you mentioned. The cops have no legal duty or requirement to keep any of us safe, and if you're male or a minority then you might just be calling your executioner if you get the cops involved.
Two is thats life for minorities in America. Black, Native, queer, Latino, female, mentally ill, violence against these groups are so normalized that the cops use these groups as their personal shooting gallery while a large portion of America will vote for a third time for a man who believes if you're can walk up to a woman she'll let you sexually assault her, and her represents a party that is enacting dangerous, destructive and potentially deadly legislation against women.

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It also seems that Jews are exaggerating these claims of
imminent danger to enhance their victimhood status.
Yet the reality isn't that their danger is greater than
many others, especially Muslims (who earn little
sympathy in USA).

jbg said:

It is Hamas made the decision to put civilians in harm's way.

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Did Hamas zip-tie the Palestinian prisoners in those mass graves before the IDF executed them too?

jbg said:

From every moral point of view they started and lost a war And have no hope of winning. All that they can do is kill people. Even Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany surrendered to the inevitable allied victory. Only in an alternate reality does Hamas have any chance of winning militarily. They can only win in the "court of public opinion" to the extent that the "court of opinion" is able to restrain Israel from finishing the job. The ability to take innocent victims is not the ability to win a war.

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Hamas seems to be Schrodinger's insurgent: on the one hand, you're saying that they're so weak they're doomed to fail and should just surrender now to prevent further bloodshed (or rather, prevent their existence from continuing to be an excuse for IDF war crimes). On the other hand, we have people like @Clizby Wampuscat saying that Hamas is so strong that it represents a threat to Israel's basic existence.

You two talk it out amongst yourselves and decide which approach you're going to take with your genocide apologetics, then get back to me when you have a coherent argument.

Revoltingest said:

It also seems that Jews are exaggerating these claims of
imminent danger to enhance their victimhood status.
Yet the reality isn't that their danger is greater than
many others, especially Muslims (who earn little
sympathy in USA).

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I've seen lots exaggerated and false claims 9f anti-semitism here lately (particularly in regards to critisms of IDFs response in Gaza), but out in the wild where real life happens MAGAs themselves tend to be anti-semitic.
Which is another issue. Lots of cops are MAGA amd authoritarian. Nowhere can anyone reasonably expect the cops to keep them safe. They've shot and killed people who simply couldn't hear them.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

That's the Israeli government's official line, but it can't be reconciled with what's happening in Gaza. It is a genocide.

The IDF is killing civilians in Gaza at a rate far beyond that of any other recent conflict. Mass graves are being found filled with Palestinians killed by the IDF whose hands were bound by zip ties.

1.7 million Palestinians have been displaced; meanwhile, the Israeli government has approved seizure of land for thousands of new illegal Israeli homes and right-wing Israeli political groups are calling for the full-scale permanent displacement of the Palestinian people from Gaza.

This is ethnic cleansing. This is genocide.

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Who are you going to believe? and what sounds more reasonable?

This has a photo from a video showing the Palestinians digging a so called mass grave:

Shadow Wolf said:

I've seen lots exaggerated and false claims 9f anti-semitism here lately (particularly in regards to critisms of IDFs response in Gaza), but out in the wild where real life happens MAGAs themselves tend to be anti-semitic.
Which is another issue. Lots of cops are MAGA amd authoritarian. Nowhere can anyone reasonably expect the cops to keep them safe. They've shot and killed people who simply couldn't hear them.

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Magas are a diverse bunch that way.
Either loving or loathing Jews.
They're also weird about Putin & Russia.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

Who are you going to believe?

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The UN.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

and what sounds more reasonable?

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Definitely not "Palestinians staged the whole thing."

Shadow Wolf said:

I've seen lots exaggerated and false claims 9f anti-semitism here lately (particularly in regards to critisms of IDFs response in Gaza), but out in the wild where real life happens MAGAs themselves tend to be anti-semitic.
Which is another issue. Lots of cops are MAGA amd authoritarian. Nowhere can anyone reasonably expect the cops to keep them safe. They've shot and killed people who simply couldn't hear them.

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I wonder....if the National Guard is there to
"protect the Jews", then who will protect
the students from the National Guard?
They're undisciplined, trigger happy, &
ill suited to policing demonstrations.
Remember Kent State's mass murder.

Revoltingest said:

Magas are a diverse bunch that way.
Either loving or loathing Jews.
They're also weird about Putin & Russia.

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That's like a Muslim who's not too sure of that Allah fellow Muhhamad really liked.
Trump has made authoritariamism a MAGA norm.
And truly I hope more of them get to go to Russia to see first hand it's not like what Tucker Carlson told them and Aldi shopping carts aren't worth it.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Did Hamas zip-tie the Palestinian prisoners in those mass graves before the IDF executed them too?


Hamas seems to be Schrodinger's insurgent: on the one hand, you're saying that they're so weak they're doomed to fail and should just surrender now to prevent further bloodshed (or rather, prevent their existence from continuing to be an excuse for IDF war crimes). On the other hand, we have people like @Clizby Wampuscat saying that Hamas is so strong that it represents a threat to Israel's basic existence.

You two talk it out amongst yourselves and decide which approach you're going to take with your genocide apologetics, then get back to me when you have a coherent argument.

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I never said that.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

The UN.

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They are pro Hamas

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Definitely not "Palestinians staged the whole thing."

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I never said they did.

Clizby Wampuscat said:

They are pro Hamas

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No, they aren't. I have seen no one other than extremists who are pro-Hamas.

Shadow Wolf said:

No, they aren't. I have seen no one other than extremists who are pro-Hamas.

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It's fascinating (& somewhat vexing) to listen
to spokesmen for Israel on NPR. They are
without exception paranoid & vengeful
regarding Palestinians. No amount of
civilian death & destruction is too much
for them. The country has gone full blown
Nazi-esque nutzo.