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Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I’m glad that this article has references from JW sources to support most of these claims.
I would suggest that these be read. “From the horse’s mouth”, as they say.

Many of the other references I noticed are not from JW sources, but tend to be biased, as the references are from those who have either been disfellowshipped, or are hostile to JW’s.

If you had lived in Jesus’ day and wanted to learn the truth about Him, would you have asked the Pharisees? Or Judas?

All of our meetings & teachings are open to the public. Grief, we go house-to-house! If we weren’t confident in our message, and in having God’s & Jesus’ support, do you think we would do that, not knowing who we will speak with? Not knowing who’s behind the door?

Have a good day.
I can understand you wanting us to hear from JW's. I am just concerned that perhaps he wasn't thinking for himself. I was quoting from what I hoped were relatively neutral sources. But I suppose neutrality in something like this is impossible. There was a paragraph I left out in my quote that I thought was too hostile.

I know from my own experience as a Baha'i that sources that are "neutral" are from those who don't believe, so it is no more neutral than from Baha'i sources. I apologize. There is no such thing as neutrality in religion. So what should I do? I'm not inclined to investigate JW as I prefer to look at the Bible Writings with an independent eye, and at any rate I believe in the meantime Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah have come to shed light on what the truth is on any aspect.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
I asked: How did God create all things through Jesus Christ?

In post #956 I said:

I will give you a heads-up. I believe that verses 3 and 4 are about God, not about Jesus.
All things were made by God since God created the heavens and the earth. In God was life and the life was the light of man.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

1 Corinthians 8:5, 6
5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
But what does this mean? one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

The verse also says: the Father, from whom all things are and we for him.
This verse indicates that all things are from God, meaning God created all things.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. New International Version (NIV)
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus did not say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man will ever come unto the Father, but by me."

It was true that during the Dispensation of Jesus Christ no man could come to the Father but by Jesus.
However, that verse only applied to the Dispensation of Jesus Christ. I believe there have been other ways to come the Father since the Christian dispensation ended.

Dispensation
  1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
  2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
  3. a divinely appointed order or age:
e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If I second-guess to many things what will have left to believe in? You have believe in something, you just try do your best like anything in life and eventually you end up in the best place.
I agree. I look for what I see as good and true. We can always find things to question if we look hard enough.
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I have noticed about my own self and it probably happens with others, it doesn't take very much to turn completely negative about anything under the sun, but it requires much effort sometimes to keep looking on the bright side of things.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I have noticed about my own self and it probably happens with others, it doesn't take very much to turn completely negative about anything under the sun, but it requires much effort sometimes to keep looking on the bright side of things.
That is true for me as well. I have a propensity for depression, so I have to work hard to stay above it!
I also have a stressful life situation so I am basically treading water just to stay afloat.
That is no doubt why I run around the house all day crying out "help me Jesus, help me God!
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I can understand you wanting us to hear from JW's. I am just concerned that perhaps he wasn't thinking for himself. I was quoting from what I hoped were relatively neutral sources. But I suppose neutrality in something like this is impossible. There was a paragraph I left out in my quote that I thought was too hostile.

I know from my own experience as a Baha'i that sources that are "neutral" are from those who don't believe, so it is no more neutral than from Baha'i sources. I apologize. There is no such thing as neutrality in religion. So what should I do? I'm not inclined to investigate JW as I prefer to look at the Bible Writings with an independent eye, and at any rate I believe in the meantime Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah have come to shed light on what the truth is on any aspect.
Jesus gave us a new commandment - we can try doing with everybody everywhere!

John 13:34 A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.” NIV
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
That is true for me as well. I have a propensity for depression, so I have to work hard to stay above it!
I also have a stressful life situation so I am basically treading water just to stay afloat.
That is no doubt why I run around the house all day crying out "help me Jesus, help me God!
Thank You,
Just six months ago I had severe pneumonia which prevented me from sleeping, so I didn't sleep at all for over a month, I was a complete wreck,
I learned a valuable lesson.. For example I was so afraid of sleeping, lying down or missing one night of sleeping pills, I wouldn't even try, my anxiety levels we're so high you would not believe it.

I watched videos from claire weeks and she said that fear is a natural sensation your body and mind feels, it's like getting excited when you get a new car or something you like very much. or riding a bike uphill or any kind of thing makes you respond. Here is what work for me.

1. Claire Weeks says your first response to anything is tiny and goes away all by itself, and it's natural, if you look forward to a tiny response of any kind, greet it positively, do not try to avoid it, enjoy it why it's nothing, it's just a response. and at the same time I think about every detail enjoying laying down in the bed - I don't even think about sleeping I only think about how wonderful is this lying down.

All you have to do is ask yourself, what are the worst parts of it?

- think about the opposite.. Something wonderful.
- don't be afraid of any of it, welcome it, It's wonderful too. / this way it remains a tiny response.
- practice makes perfect. It sounds too easy, it took you awhile to develop this problem, stick with it It will take a while to make it better.
- it definitely will get so much better, another key is just go back to the way you used to think before you had the problem.
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Do you know that the scripture shows that Jesus says if you pray to him and ask him anything, he will do it?



John 14: 14 reads,
  • If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.
In the word-for-word translation, it reads this way.
  • 14 ἐάν if ever τι anything αἰτήσητέ YOU should ask με me ἐν in τῷ the ὀνόματί name μου of me τοῦτο this ποιήσω. I shall do.

Acts 4:10,12 and 22:16
  • “Let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead… there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.’ ‘…Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.’”
Jesus said at John 6:45:
  • “Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.”
If you have learned from Jehovah, you are commanded to “come to” Jesus. Have you come to Jesus by asking Him to wash away your sins and to give you eternal life? How can you “listen to” Jesus voice if you don’t communicate with Him in prayer? How can you receive “everlasting life” if you don’t ask Jesus to give it to you? Jesus said at John 14:6:

  • “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
My new friend, here you are talking about, no salvation in anyone else, praying to Jesus and another name under heaven, I am not as multi-talented like that, I have to take a single-minded approach, only one point at a time. could you please give me all the scriptures you can find were the scripture
[ says specifically to pray directly to Jesus just like the one you have posted John 14:14 ].
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I have noticed about my own self and it probably happens with others, it doesn't take very much to turn completely negative about anything under the sun, but it requires much effort sometimes to keep looking on the bright side of things.
I had to decide what I was going to do after studying for some time. :) I find no reason to sweep away the Bible because of accusations against it, and many reasons to believe it as the word of God. Can I explain everything as if I were there? No, I cannot, and for some things I am waiting for an exact description. I find the preponderance of evidence in the Bible to be that it is true.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thank You,
Just six months ago I had severe pneumonia which prevented me from sleeping, so I didn't sleep at all for over a month, I was a complete wreck,
I learned a valuable lesson.. For example I was so afraid of sleeping, lying down or missing one night of sleeping pills, I wouldn't even try, my anxiety levels we're so high you would not believe it.
Oh, I'd believe it about your anxiety levels. I see a counselor for anxiety, have been for years. Most of my anxiety is related to my houses and cats and driving, not about sleep. As for sleep, when I don't get enough sleep I have a really hard time functioning mentally. I can always get to sleep, but my problem is waking up too early and not being able to get back to sleep.

This morning I was rudely awakened by the sun shining on my face. I was so angry, now I am just tired. The sun just happens to shine right on where my pillow is. Unfortunately, that is a very large window and there are no blinds or curtains on it. Even though I keep sunglasses next to the bed and pulled the covers over my head, it didn't keep the sun out. I knew I will be tired all day and I was. I cannot go through this again tonight because I need my sleep, so I plan to sleep on the couch tonight. I have been sleeping in a twin bed in the living room because I cannot sleep in the master bedroom since my husband passed on in 2022. I will probably never sleep in there again, but I have 8 cats and they like that bedroom.
I watched videos from claire weeks and she said that fear is a natural sensation your body and mind feels, it's like getting excited when you get a new car or something you like very much. or riding a bike uphill or any kind of thing makes you respond. Here is what work for me.

1. Claire Weeks says your first response to anything is tiny and goes away all by itself, and it's natural, if you look forward to a tiny response of any kind, greet it positively, do not try to avoid it, enjoy it why it's nothing, it's just a response. and at the same time I think about every detail enjoying laying down in the bed - I don't even think about sleeping I only think about how wonderful is this lying down.

All you have to do is ask yourself, what are the worst parts of it?

- think about the opposite.. Something wonderful.
- don't be afraid of any of it, welcome it, It's wonderful too. / this way it remains a tiny response.
- practice makes perfect. It sounds too easy, it took you awhile to develop this problem, stick with it It will take a while to make it better.
- it definitely will get so much better, another key is just go back to the way you used to think before you had the problem.
Thanks, I never heard of her. She sounds like a good psychiatrist so I'll have to check out her methodology.
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I asked: How did God create all things through Jesus Christ?

In post #956 I said:

I will give you a heads-up. I believe that verses 3 and 4 are about God, not about Jesus.
All things were made by God since God created the heavens and the earth. In God was life and the life was the light of man.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


But what does this mean? one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

The verse also says: the Father, from whom all things are and we for him.
This verse indicates that all things are from God, meaning God created all things.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus did not say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man will ever come unto the Father, but by me."

It was true that during the Dispensation of Jesus Christ no man could come to the Father but by Jesus.
However, that verse only applied to the Dispensation of Jesus Christ. I believe there have been other ways to come the Father since the Christian dispensation ended.

Dispensation
  1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
  2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
  3. a divinely appointed order or age:
e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
Think about I show you a bunch of scriptures, you show me a bunch. We both get really good at debates. I discovered a better, wonderful idea!

Just start reading the four gospels and as soon as you find something that sounds like an instruction from Jesus, get busy following Jesus advice and do what he says, the faster you get started the better, it will be in no time your life will be so full of joy, you will be crying every night in happiness! all my thinking has been transformed, I only have one regret, why didn't I do this sooner! down the road you will understand Jesus words so good.

Just keep in mind at a certain point after you keep reading, keep learning and keep doing what Jesus says you will figure out all the questions and answers all by yourself! Jesus says he is with us all the way until the conclusion. Are we at the conclusion yet? No!

...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. --Matthew 28:20
 
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walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Oh, I'd believe it about your anxiety levels. I see a counselor for anxiety, have been for years. Most of my anxiety is related to my houses and cats and driving, not about sleep. As for sleep, when I don't get enough sleep I have a really hard time functioning mentally. I can always get to sleep, but my problem is waking up too early and not being able to get back to sleep.

This morning I was rudely awakened by the sun shining on my face. I was so angry, now I am just tired. The sun just happens to shine right on where my pillow is. Unfortunately, that is a very large window and there are no blinds or curtains on it. Even though I keep sunglasses next to the bed and pulled the covers over my head, it didn't keep the sun out. I knew I will be tired all day and I was. I cannot go through this again tonight because I need my sleep, so I plan to sleep on the couch tonight. I have been sleeping in a twin bed in the living room because I cannot sleep in the master bedroom since my husband passed on in 2022. I will probably never sleep in there again, but I have 8 cats and they like that bedroom.

Thanks, I never heard of her. She sounds like a good psychiatrist so I'll have to check out her methodology.
There are some really good videos on YouTube about Claire Weekes
 
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walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Oh, I'd believe it about your anxiety levels. I see a counselor for anxiety, have been for years. Most of my anxiety is related to my houses and cats and driving, not about sleep. As for sleep, when I don't get enough sleep I have a really hard time functioning mentally. I can always get to sleep, but my problem is waking up too early and not being able to get back to sleep.

This morning I was rudely awakened by the sun shining on my face. I was so angry, now I am just tired. The sun just happens to shine right on where my pillow is. Unfortunately, that is a very large window and there are no blinds or curtains on it. Even though I keep sunglasses next to the bed and pulled the covers over my head, it didn't keep the sun out. I knew I will be tired all day and I was. I cannot go through this again tonight because I need my sleep, so I plan to sleep on the couch tonight. I have been sleeping in a twin bed in the living room because I cannot sleep in the master bedroom since my husband passed on in 2022. I will probably never sleep in there again, but I have 8 cats and they like that bedroom.

Thanks, I never heard of her. She sounds like a good psychiatrist so I'll have to check out her methodology.
I watched over 100 insomnia recovery videos on YouTube this one woman would run a marathon, ride a bicycle for long ways and then swim many miles and she did great! but here's the thing she hadn't slept for the last three weeks.. Your mind is a funny thing whatever you think is true, becomes true and whatever you think is not true becomes now not true! Now I could care less if I sleep at all and it doesn't matter how many hours or hours I don't sleep I feel great anyways either way!
 
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walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Let's say a JW friend gives you a magazine that quotes John 14:14 in their bible and it reads:

  • "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. NWT

Here, you will read it the way they want you to think. That if you ask anything in Jesus' name he will give it to you. Yes?

But if you go outside their bible and read it from the Greek translation word for word, you'll see that it actually says:
From: Bible Hub
  • If anything you ask Me in the the name of me I will do it.

View attachment 89512
This has a totally different understanding. Here, it's saying that if you ask Jesus [Me], he [Jesus] will do it.

So the magazine is pointing to a misleading quote of a scripture, and you won't know unless you look at outside references.



Here's another example:

I found a Watchtower article that states Jehovah's Witnesses alone refrain from war. This is simply not true. But you won't know unless you research outside.

  • "Who are no part of the world and learn war no more? Again, the historical record of the 20th century testifies: only Jehovah's Witnesses." Watchtower 1992 Apr 1 p.12

Doing research outside I found Christian churches known for their stance against war:

  • Moravians (one of the very first Protestant religions dating back to the 1500's)
  • Brethren (Dunkards) groups, including
    • Church of the Brethren
  • Anabaptist groups, including
    • Mennonites (16th century group numbering 1.5 million)
    • Hutterites
    • Schwenkfelders
    • Bruderhof Communities
    • Amish (numbering approximately 200,000)
  • Society of Friends (Quakers)
  • Doukhobors - 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
  • Molokans - 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
  • Some Pentecostal groups such as the Pentecostal Charismatic Peace Fellowship
  • Seven Day Adventists
  • Community of Christ
  • Christadelphians
  • Worldwide Church of God
  • Pax Christi - A Catholic peace movement
  • Fellowship of Reconciliation - A group formed in 1914 to unite pacifists regardless of denomination. All major religious denominations have affiliated associations including
    • Anglican Pacifist Fellowship
    • Methodist Peace Fellowship
    • Baptist Peace Fellowship
    • Orthodox Peace Fellowship
    • Lutheran Peace Fellowship
    • Presbyterian Peace Fellowship
This is what I was talking to you about seeing the bad fruit.
I found some more scriptures that actually agree with your position, okay.. just thinking about one point at a time.

What if scripture proof is 50/50, 50% evidence one way, 50% the another way. [ both ways ] = Meaning the bible actually supports two ways of thinking. Would you agree we could pick either way or both ways? What's your feelings on that? So then if 50/50 is the case, we just move on to the next point of interest? [ I'm just waiting for the scriptures you're going to provide on the one point only ]. Thanks.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Think about I show you a bunch of scriptures, you show me a bunch. We both get really good at debates. I discovered a better, wonderful idea!

Just start reading the four gospels and as soon as you find something that sounds like an instruction from Jesus, get busy following Jesus advice and do what he says, the faster you get started the better, it will be in no time your life will be so full of joy, you will be crying every night in happiness! all my thinking has been transformed, I only have one regret, why didn't I do this sooner! down the road you will understand Jesus words so good.

Just keep in mind at a certain point after you keep reading, keep learning and keep doing what Jesus says you will figure out all the questions and answers all by yourself! Jesus says he is with us all the way until the conclusion. Are we at the conclusion yet? No!

...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. --Matthew 28:20
I do take to heart what Jesus instructed us to do and try to follow His instructions, but I did that before I read the New Testament, since the same teachings exist in the scriptures of my religion, the Baha'i Faith. I can offer you a side-by-side comparison if you want to see how similar they are.
 

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I do take to heart what Jesus instructed us to do and try to follow His instructions, but I did that before I read the New Testament, since the same teachings exist in the scriptures of my religion, the Baha'i Faith. I can offer you a side-by-side comparison if you want to see how similar they are.
sure please.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I watched over 100 insomnia recovery videos on YouTube this one woman would run a marathon, ride a bicycle for long ways and then swim many miles and she did great! but here's the thing she hadn't slept for the last three weeks.. Your mind is a funny thing whatever you think is true, becomes true and whatever you think is not true becomes now not true! Now I could care less if I sleep at all and it doesn't matter how many hours or hours I don't sleep I feel great anyways either way!
I used to get by on less sleep and still function, but I cannot do that anymore. I can function physically on less sleep, but I need a minimum amount of sleep to function mentally. I have many mental tasks I have to perform in everyday life and I cannot juggle all those balls in the air unless I have enough sleep. For example, I often have to call people on the phone to take care of business matters, and often that involves negotiations, and I cannot do that on little sleep because I cannot think clearly. Sleep deprivation affects the short term memory so it can lead to mistakes.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
sure please.
Okay, below are some verses from the New Testament and the Baha'i Writings that mean essentially the same thing.
This list demonstrates that the spiritual teachings of religions do not change over time, they are only repeated and refreshed.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

“Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it. Say: Were all created things to be entirely divested of the veil of worldly vanity and desire, the Hand of God would in this Day clothe them, one and all, with the robe “He doeth whatsoever He willeth in the kingdom of creation,” that thereby the sign of His sovereignty might be manifested in all things. Exalted then be He, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Almighty, the Supreme Protector, the All-Glorious, the Most Powerful.” Gleanings, pp. 294-295

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

“The peoples of the world are fast asleep. Were they to wake from their slumber, they would hasten with eagerness unto God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. They would cast away everything they possess, be it all the treasures of the earth, that their Lord may remember them to the extent of addressing to them but one word.” Gleanings, p. 137

“Place not thy reliance on thy treasures. Put thy whole confidence in the grace of God, thy Lord. Let Him be thy trust in whatever thou doest, and be of them that have submitted themselves to His Will. Let Him be thy helper and enrich thyself with His treasures, for with Him are the treasuries of the heavens and of the earth.” Gleanings, pp.234-235

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

“For every one of you his paramount duty is to choose for himself that on which no other may infringe and none usurp from him. Such a thing—and to this the Almighty is My witness—is the love of God, could ye but perceive it .........
Build ye for yourselves such houses as the rain and floods can never destroy, which shall protect you from the changes and chances of this life. This is the instruction of Him Whom the world hath wronged and forsaken.” Gleanings, p. 261

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Let's say a JW friend gives you a magazine that quotes John 14:14 in their bible and it reads:

  • "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. NWT

Here, you will read it the way they want you to think. That if you ask anything in Jesus' name he will give it to you. Yes?

But if you go outside their bible and read it from the Greek translation word for word, you'll see that it actually says:
From: Bible Hub
  • If anything you ask Me in the the name of me I will do it.

View attachment 89512
This has a totally different understanding. Here, it's saying that if you ask Jesus [Me], he [Jesus] will do it.

So the magazine is pointing to a misleading quote of a scripture, and you won't know unless you look at outside references.



Here's another example:

I found a Watchtower article that states Jehovah's Witnesses alone refrain from war. This is simply not true. But you won't know unless you research outside.

  • Again, the historical record of the 20th century testifies: only Jehovah's Witnesses." Watchtower 1992 Apr 1 p.12

Doing research outside I found Christian churches known for their stance against war:

  • Moravians (one of the very first Protestant religions dating back to the 1500's)
  • Brethren (Dunkards) groups, including
    • Church of the Brethren
  • Anabaptist groups, including
    • Mennonites (16th century group numbering 1.5 million)
    • Hutterites
    • Schwenkfelders
    • Bruderhof Communities
    • Amish (numbering approximately 200,000)
  • Society of Friends (Quakers)
  • Doukhobors - 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
  • Molokans - 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
  • Some Pentecostal groups such as the Pentecostal Charismatic Peace Fellowship
  • Seven Day Adventists
  • Community of Christ
  • Christadelphians
  • Worldwide Church of God
  • Pax Christi - A Catholic peace movement
  • Fellowship of Reconciliation - A group formed in 1914 to unite pacifists regardless of denomination. All major religious denominations have affiliated associations including
    • Anglican Pacifist Fellowship
    • Methodist Peace Fellowship
    • Baptist Peace Fellowship
    • Orthodox Peace Fellowship
    • Lutheran Peace Fellowship
    • Presbyterian Peace Fellowship
This is what I was talking to you about seeing the bad fruit.
There are Two categories there, not just one: “Who are 1) no part / not of the world *and* 2) learn war no more?”

What does being “no part of the world” (John 17:14-16) entail, do you think? There’s more involved than just ‘not killing others’, I guarantee you!

I really don’t think you’ll be honest…. earlier, in another post, you said something about learning from JW’s, but then you became an atheist? That just doesn’t ring true. It’s almost like an oxymoron.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I found some more scriptures that actually agree with your position, okay.. just thinking about one point at a time.

What if scripture proof is 50/50, 50% evidence one way, 50% the another way. [ both ways ] = Meaning the bible actually supports two ways of thinking. Would you agree we could pick either way or both ways? What's your feelings on that? So then if 50/50 is the case, we just move on to the next point of interest? [ I'm just waiting for the scriptures you're going to provide on the one point only ]. Thanks.
Understand everything in context.

Otherwise, it’s considered quote-mining.

Take care.
 
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