What would falsify the theory of evolution?

YoursTrue said:

The last question you ask is, of course, joking. The first ones are not. I really can't go further than what the Bible and my mind tells me. For instance, when I see the earth, the mountains, the clouds, the beautiful color of the sky, I marvel. But that's not the only thing. Another big question is death, or rather the idea that most people don't want to die, living a long conscience time with the idea that we will die. Animals such as birds and lizards have innate instinct to protect themselves. They don't buy life insurance policies. My biology teacher taught that is the "fight or flight" instinct. It is inborn. Humans have a greater thinking capacity in that sense, not necessarily based on instinct, but rather on thinking ability, preparing for the future. (Like buying life insurance.)

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I marvel at those things too, but I do not base conclusions on my ignorance of how some of those things came to be or how my species developed senses and an emotive intellect to find beauty in them. But just because I find something pretty, I cannot make declarations about it where I cannot establish connections that would support my declarations. Finding mountains majestic or sunsets beautiful to the point of inspiring my belief in God is not evidence of the existence of God. It is evidence about how I feel and what I might think as a result of those feelings. I cannot see that as any different for others.

Fight or flight is a survival mechanism to increase the odds of survival to rapidly developing, life-threatening situations. You get jumped by modern day predators that want your cash on the way home some night, for instance. The fight or flight kicks in when you don't have time to assess the situation and come up with a response strategy. However, in our world, some of the day to day stresses can trigger it unexpectedly and unnecessarily. It is a response that engages without much or any thinking needed.

We have evolved greater cognitive abilities to some extent. We have a conscience, we have developed language, we can problem solve, build and use tools, predict, plan, observe and learn in ways that, on a whole, are greater than any other creature known. Though, there are examples of other species that approach many of our thinking abilities. In some cases, some of those may exceed our own, but not as a whole. In any event, given what we know of the natural world and the rules that govern it, this is not evidence of divine creation, but the result of natural processes. However, considering this so, does not eliminate the existence of God, or that He had some hand in the process. There is just no evidence to use to argue that from the position of science. Science isn't magic with all the answers, but neither is defending what science can do scientism. In that respect, what we know of the observational and experimental evidence, the conclusion of evolution is rational, reasonable and within the constraints of that evidence.

If you are going to argue about things within the field of study using science or make declarations contrary to knowledge acquired through science, you have to work in that scope to make your arguments. Declarations without evidence have no meaning there.

@Subduction Zone -- sorry about not going through all the messages, but am replying to one of your posts -- in reference to the order of things, which I call creation -- how is it that Moses knew a great deal about the order, such as first the earth being uninhabitable -- then waters putting forth living organisms -- then plants -- then animals? Was he a genius beyond explanation, or how do you think he knew?

YoursTrue said:

Now because I am the curious type if I had to do it all over again, I might like to investigate in school more about radioactive decay and dating of artifacts. But now I have only you and a few others to talk to

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Nothing, in principle, stops you from enrolling in certain courses.
And if that is difficult (time, money,...) there's always this thing called a library or a book store.

I am not denying that various species have developed by genetic distribution and by that I mean possibly mutations. I am also saying that God, however, laid the foundations for this ability.

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That last part is just your religious belief.

YoursTrue said:

Either way, bang or not, thanks for that point of interest, it's too incredible to believe that something (a mass) was 'there' and then expanded??

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This is what prof Dawkins calls "the argument from incredulity".

ie: "my evidence against X, is that I don't believe it"

YoursTrue said:

Actually not. I was investigating the idea of clades. While conjectures are made, there is no proof (yes, proof) that the theory is true.

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Scientific theories don't deal in proof. They deal in evidence (yes, evidence).
And that goes for ALL theories in science.

TagliatelliMonster said:

Nothing, in principle, stops you from enrolling in certain courses.
And if that is difficult (time, money,...) there's always this thing called a library or a book store.
.

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@YoursTrue
And "YouTube University".
There are dozens of good science communicators on YouTube. And there are also Open Courses online by many universities. Free education conveniently streamed to your computer.

YoursTrue said:

@Subduction Zone -- sorry about not going through all the messages, but am replying to one of your posts -- in reference to the order of things, which I call creation -- how is it that Moses knew a great deal about the order, such as first the earth being uninhabitable -- then waters putting forth living organisms -- then plants -- then animals? Was he a genius beyond explanation, or how do you think he knew?

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He was fictional. The character also got the order wrong.

TagliatelliMonster said:

This is what prof Dawkins calls "the argument from incredulity".

ie: "my evidence against X, is that I don't believe it"

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Hah! I don't believe that I was ever a a single cell. That belief is preposterous. So you think that I was a single cell in my mother's womb. Well I have one question for you:

Were you there?

Checkmate atheists!

Dan From Smithville said:

In any event, given what we know of the natural world and the rules that govern it, this is not evidence of divine creation, but the result of natural processes. However, considering this so, does not eliminate the existence of God, or that He had some hand in the process. There is just no evidence to use to argue that from the position of science.

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Oh yeah, the little invisible elephant in my room.

YoursTrue said:

@Subduction Zone -- sorry about not going through all the messages, but am replying to one of your posts -- in reference to the order of things, which I call creation -- how is it that Moses knew a great deal about the order, such as first the earth being uninhabitable -- then waters putting forth living organisms -- then plants -- then animals? Was he a genius beyond explanation, or how do you think he knew?

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Genesis creates birds before land animals. That is not true. I suggest whenever you (or any other person) make a statement, check it with Wikipedia.

"Birds are feathered theropod dinosaurs and constitute the only known living dinosaurs. Likewise, birds are considered reptiles in the modern cladistic sense of the term, and their closest living relatives are the crocodilians. Birds are descendants of the primitive avialans (whose members include Archaeopteryx) which first appeared about 160 million years ago (mya) in China."
Bird - Wikipedia

"Terrestrial animals are animals that live predominantly or entirely on land (e.g. cats, dogs, ants, spiders), as compared with aquatic animals, which live predominantly or entirely in the water (e.g. fish, lobsters, octopuses), and amphibians, which rely on a combination of aquatic and terrestrial habitats (e.g. frogs and newts)."
Flat worms 270 mya, Nematodes more than 500 mya, etc.
Terrestrial animal - Wikipedia

Aupmanyav said:

Genesis creates birds before land animals. That is not true. I suggest whenever you (or any other person) make a statement, check it with Wikipedia.

"Birds are feathered theropod dinosaurs and constitute the only known living dinosaurs. Likewise, birds are considered reptiles in the modern cladistic sense of the term, and their closest living relatives are the crocodilians. Birds are descendants of the primitive avialans (whose members include Archaeopteryx) which first appeared about 160 million years ago (mya) in China."
Bird - Wikipedia

"Terrestrial animals are animals that live predominantly or entirely on land (e.g. cats, dogs, ants, spiders), as compared with aquatic animals, which live predominantly or entirely in the water (e.g. fish, lobsters, octopuses), and amphibians, which rely on a combination of aquatic and terrestrial habitats (e.g. frogs and newts)."
Flat worms 270 mya, Nematodes more than 500 mya, etc.
Terrestrial animal - Wikipedia

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It no longer matters to me what someone may quote from Wikipedia as if it's true about the claims regarding the order of organisms on the earth. Or evolution. (And I like Wikipedia.)
Here is what I believe. It doesn't have to make sense to you, it makes sense to me, regardless of what Wikipedia says::
Genesis 1:20 And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”
21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters teemed according to their kinds, and every bird of flight after its kind. And God saw that it was good.22Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters of the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”23And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.
(Birds and sea creatures on the FIFTH DAY)
Then livestock -- land crawlers -- and "beasts of the earth," etc.
24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
And then, of course --
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”
Yes, I read that dinosaurs with feathers evolved to birds that fly with wings. Do you believe that?

Heyo said:

@YoursTrue
And "YouTube University".
There are dozens of good science communicators on YouTube. And there are also Open Courses online by many universities. Free education conveniently streamed to your computer.

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Who needs more info when you all are helping me peer into, uh, dinosaur wings?

YoursTrue said:

It no longer matters to me what someone may quote from Wikipedia as if it's true about the claims regarding the order of organisms on the earth. Or evolution. (And I like Wikipedia.)
Here is what I believe. It doesn't have to make sense to you, it makes sense to me, regardless of what Wikipedia says::
Genesis 1:20 And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”
21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters teemed according to their kinds, and every bird of flight after its kind. And God saw that it was good.22Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters of the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”23And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.
(Birds and sea creatures on the FIFTH DAY)
Then livestock -- land crawlers -- and "beasts of the earth," etc.
24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
And then, of course --
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”
Yes, I read that dinosaurs with feathers evolved to birds that fly with wings. Do you believe that?

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Since we have quite a bit of evidence that supports the claim of birds evolving from dinosaurs, yes. I accept the claim that that is the source of birds.


What justifies your belief that they did not evolve from dinosaurs? You have no evidence for your beliefs and you have no evidence that refutes the claims of scientists.

Who would you believe when it came to a person claiming that the Earth was flat and someone claiming that it was roughly spherical in shape?

Subduction Zone said:

Hah! I don't believe that I was ever a a single cell. That belief is preposterous. So you think that I was a single cell in my mother's womb. Well I have one question for you:

Were you there?

Checkmate atheists!

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I hate to say this, but -- LOL -- were you?

Subduction Zone said:

Since we have quite a bit of evidence that supports the claim of birds evolving from dinosaurs, yes. I accept the claim that that is the source of birds.


What justifies your belief that they did not evolve from dinosaurs? You have no evidence for your beliefs and you have no evidence that refutes the claims of scientists.

Who would you believe when it came to a person claiming that the Earth was flat and someone claiming that it was roughly spherical in shape?

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You may say or claim that birds evolved from big or not-so-big dinosaurs, but that does not make it so, even if they find things that look like feathered imprints on their fossils. That's almost like saying that earth came about from a piece of matter that flew off another planet while gravity was changing.

Anyway, thanks guys -- -- you have really helped. Y'all have a good night looking forward to ?? something I guess. Or -- nothing?

YoursTrue said:

I hate to say this, but -- LOL -- were you?

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Actually I was. Maybe you don't recognize that stupid argument. That is the one that creationists Ken Ham uses not even realizing that he was not there when the Bible was written. Nor were many of the characters in the Bible since they are mythical.

YoursTrue said:

You may say or claim that birds evolved from big or not-so-big dinosaurs, but that does not make it so, even if they find things that look like feathered imprints on their fossils. That's almost like saying that earth came about from a piece of matter that flew off another planet while gravity was changing.

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Sorry but that is a failed analogy We do have evidence for bird evolution. There is no evidence for your strawman. It also appears that you may have gotten a hypothesis on the formation of the Moon wrong.

Subduction Zone said:

Since we have quite a bit of evidence that supports the claim of birds evolving from dinosaurs, yes. I accept the claim that that is the source of birds.


What justifies your belief that they did not evolve from dinosaurs? You have no evidence for your beliefs and you have no evidence that refutes the claims of scientists.

Who would you believe when it came to a person claiming that the Earth was flat and someone claiming that it was roughly spherical in shape?

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I believe the Bible when it says that it is spherical in shape, anyway photographs and life experiences tell me so, and by that I mean real life experiences, or reports from people that can be believed as far as I am concerned. But thanks anyway. Isaiah 40:22 speaks of a spherical or round earth, and yes -- decent minds and observation tell us so as well. But regardless of imprints ascribed by scientists to dinosaurs that must have in their minds evolved to be flying creatures, I believe they made it up. Who knows? (Do you?) Maybe some dinosaurs did have feathers. That doesn't mean they eventually evolved to fly, does it? (No, it doesn't. But obviously in some minds it does.)

Subduction Zone said:

Actually I was. Maybe you don't recognize that stupid argument. That is the one that creationists Ken Ham uses not even realizing that he was not there when the Bible was written. Nor were many of the characters in the Bible since they are mythical.

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YOU believe they are fictional. I no longer do. But again -- I thank you for expressing your opinion, I'm sure many even here would agree with you. I no longer do.
So you think you were a little cell. Just wondering. Did that little cell think? Once again, maybe that little cell that became YOU evolved to think during the time you were in your mother's womb? I do agree that a cell can grow (not evolve unless that's how you look at it) to become a human.