Enlightened by God

Seeker of White Light said:

People may ask about my belief, but I have no obligation to prove it is "real" to others. What others think is their thoughts, not mine

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Did i say you are obligated? Try responding to
what is actually said.

Audie said:

Did i say you are obligated? Try responding to
what is actually said.

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Try to be nice for once

Seeker of White Light said:

Try to be nice for once

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If I talk nonsense, Id rather someone mention it
to me.
But then I wasnt raised in a home that tolerated
dreamy self indulgence.
If i make you uncomfortable with my observations the ig function is available.

Nakosis said:

Has anyone felt God's presence?

I have, and I would describe it as enlightening.
Was it actually God? IDK, but the experience seemed to fit he bill of what I thought God's presence ought to feel like.

So we feel this presence and through it, justify our belief in God.
Through this personal experience.

Do you justify your belief through such an experience or do you have other means of justifying your belief in God?

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This is a very fringe way of justifying the existence of God. Mostly we hear this kind of thing from hardcore internet evangelists. Very, very rare in general.

Historically the more common way of justifying the existence of God has been rationality.

firedragon said:

This is a very fringe way of justifying the existence of God. Mostly we hear this kind of thing from hardcore internet evangelists. Very, very rare in general.

Historically the more common way of justifying the existence of God has been rationality.

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As I asked another poster, how do you
apply reason and logic to something for
which you have zero, or extremely limited
information?

Audie said:

As I asked another poster, how do you
apply reason and logic to something for
which you have zero, or extremely limited
information?

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Abundant. You should explore a little.

"I have god inside me" is the most rare type of argument. But its more vocal and are on the internet so many who get their religious education from YouTube and street preachers think about it a bit.

Throughout history God and stuff like that has been always rationalisations. Logical arguments.

firedragon said:

Abundant. You should explore a little.

"I have god inside me" is the most rare type of argument. But its more vocal and are on the internet so many who get their religious education from YouTube and street preachers think about it a bit.

Throughout history God and stuff like that has been always rationalisations. Logical arguments.

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You " should" respond to what I actually asked.

Audie said:

You " should" respond to what I actually asked.

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You asked how do you apply reason and logic. Reason and logic is not always applied by empiricists like you which is unreasonable and illogical so you have to know and understand your own epistemology and intent prior to indulging in this.

firedragon said:

You asked how do you apply reason and logic. Reason and logic is not always applied by empiricists like you which is unreasonable and illogical so you have to know and understand your own epistemology and intent prior to indulging in this.

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I asked how to apply reason and logic to,
something for which there is no info.

Kinda like, how do you give a sensible answer
with no reference to what i actually asked.

Audie said:

I asked how to apply reason and logic to,
something for which there is no info.

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What do you mean "there is no info"?

What do you consider "info"? Can you explain your epistemology?

If you cant, you will never be able to engage with reason and/or logic. Thats why I ask this question.

John 4:48

I do believe it's possible to lift a corner of the veil. But the signs and Wonders are all about us anyway. We just have to learn how to see.

Matthew 6:22

firedragon said:

What do you mean "there is no info"?

What do you consider "info"? Can you explain your epistemology?

If you cant, you will never be able to engage with reason and/or logic. Thats why I ask this question.

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You mean distinguish justified belief from
opinion?
Its like the difference between belief in
Australia, and Atlantis.
There is info for Australia. Opinions for
Atlantis.

If you think there is "info" for god(s)
you may never be able to display reason or logic in this topic.

Audie said:

You mean distinguish justified belief from
opinion?

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No.

Audie said:

Its like the difference between belief in
Australia, and Atlantis.
There is info for Australia. Opinions for
Atlantis.

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No.

Audie said:

If you think there is "info" for god(s)
you may never be able to display reason or logic in this topic.

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No.

Rather than creating strawman arguments, why not address your own question?

Let me cut and paste my clarification so that you can "attempt" at making a valid response.

"What do you consider "info"? Can you explain your epistemology?

If you cant, you will never be able to engage with reason and/or logic. Thats why I ask this question."

Seeker of White Light said:

Do I have to justify to others that I believe in God?

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Not at all.

Eyes to See said:

God reveals himself to those whom he wants to. A person has to be awake enough to be aware of it. But if it is God doing the revealing there is no way the person is not going to know it. Although it is their choice if they chose to ignore it or not. Whenever I hear the argument "you can't prove God exists" I also think the logical answer, I don't need to. God already has proven his existence just by what he has made. Scripture says that his invisible qualities are clearly evident and demonstrated in his creation so that those who do not believe in God have no excuse:

"For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable."-Romans 1:20.

But God's word also tells us that not all people have faith:

"For faith is not a possession of all people."-2 Thessalonians 3:2.

And it reveals to us that true faith is only a gift granted to us by God himself:

"Each one as God has given to him a measure of faith."-Romans 12:3.

That measure of faith is granted to the person by God. And it is a part of the fruitage of God's holy spirit, so one would need to pray to God for such faith and have God's holy spirit active in their lives to have faith:

"On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,  mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."-Galatians 5:22-23.

ETA:

Sorry I hit post early. I wanted to add one more thing.

Jesus said:

"Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you; 8 for everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened. 9 Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he? 11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!"-Matthew 7:7-11.

If a person really wants true faith and a real relationship with the living God it is imperative that they ask him for wisdom and faith in prayer without doubting, and it will be given them.

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That’s a beautiful way of explaining God and I admire your strength of faith. Never lose that faith. Cherish it as you would your sight and life.

I was an atheist not searching for anything so I never deserved to believe in Him. Yet He allowed me to have this wonderful gift. He is most generous and kind.

firedragon said:

This is a very fringe way of justifying the existence of God. Mostly we hear this kind of thing from hardcore internet evangelists. Very, very rare in general.

Historically the more common way of justifying the existence of God has been rationality.

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I hear it more often from what I'd call the mystic group of folks.
Also I heard it often from Christians.

Mock Turtle said:

Surely this is the issue - since you might be primed to interpret any such experience as being 'God's presence'. How could one determine this is the case from any number of other quite similar experiences or combinations of such to have produced this?

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That's the good question.

Nakosis said:

I hear it more often from what I'd call the mystic group of folks.
Also I heard it often from Christians.

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If you analyse, you will note that those who make this claim are predominantly on the internet, and sometimes in the streets, preaching, proselytising, and more often than not, making money out of it.

This is not the general apologetic for the justification of an existence. Historically speaking. Its just loud, and repeated by the opposers because its easy to oppose.

Hope you understand.

Nakosis said:

Has anyone felt God's presence?

I have, and I would describe it as enlightening.
Was it actually God? IDK, but the experience seemed to fit he bill of what I thought God's presence ought to feel like.

So we feel this presence and through it, justify our belief in God.
Through this personal experience.

Do you justify your belief through such an experience or do you have other means of justifying your belief in God?

Click to expand...

Love enlightens. Without love, people tend to ignore those they hate, or only show negative reactions. Haters don't believe anything good can come from those they despise.

There is none of us so good that we aren't capable of evil. And none of us so evil that we don't have the potential for good. - Edgar Cayce

Nakosis said:

Has anyone felt God's presence?

I have, and I would describe it as enlightening.
Was it actually God? IDK, but the experience seemed to fit he bill of what I thought God's presence ought to feel like.

So we feel this presence and through it, justify our belief in God.
Through this personal experience.

Do you justify your belief through such an experience or do you have other means of justifying your belief in God?

Click to expand...

My thoughts it may or may not.

Experience with telepathy in the unseen and vision in a world/dimension beyond this one, can make people believe in God. However, many of these unseen entities and many of these worlds that are occupied by hidden beings who are intelligent don't believe in God and order of heavens and earth but can give us "spiritual" experiences including making you witness people's energy and telepathy wise detect thoughts.

They in my case, drove me into madness.

But that is to say, you can get a higher experience with entities beyond this world yet those beings may not submit or believe in God. And if they do, they might not be connected to God but an imagination of a God that is a false one.

To experience God, out of unseen entities, one must connect to spirit of his command or Angels who are drawn close and can connect us to the spirit of his command.

His holy light is to be known through holy light. His proof is meant to connect you to God. Energies and experience with telepathy can be a proof somewhat of a unseen world beyond.

But this is all to say, these type of experiences are not proof on others. What I perceive as a holy spirit (Mohammad (s)), another person might say is hateful entity that has too much power and is to be fought not submitted to and that I am just overwhelmed by his power upon me.

And I wouldn't be able to prove outwardly otherwise. Thus these type proofs are highly personal and they even contradict one another. The only way to know the true God out of false gods presented in unseen is for yourself to recognize the sword of truth and honor in midst of the false swords. To recognize who you truly are in midst of the masks that tell you are this and that but lie. That takes awakening by truth towards yourself and recognition of who you are beyond all the lies you are told unseen and outwardly in the world.