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Allah Is Same As Elohim
- Thread starter hanif
- Start date
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
I never understood where poeple got the idea that Allah is some other G-d than the G-d the other Abrahamic faiths follow. Walk into a christian church in the middle east and who are they talking about? Allah.
ayani
member
hanif said:
yes, i feel similarly. many are His names, and manifold the ways that we can hear (of) Him.
http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.com/articles/Comparative_Religion/God/Allah_attributes.html
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Allah is not the God of the Bible, no way. The Bible says that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life. Islam says, "Alah has no son." One is right, and one is dead wrong. Either God sent His Son to pay for the sin of the world by paying the penalty of sin, which is death, or God has no Son. In light of the thousands of precise, exact, fullfilled scripture of the Bible compared to one self-fulfilling one in the Koran, I will go with the God who sent His Son. (Mohammad 'predicted' that he would go to Mecca, easy enough to do, Jesus predicted that He would rise from the dead the third day, not so easy) And that is only one of the many differences.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
The original poster explained that the word Allah comes from the same Hebraic form Elohim. This is patently true. The Arabic word and the Hebrew word are from the same language family and the equivalency is obvious to all but the most closed-minded.
Actually the Qur'an points out that God has no progeny, physical descendants. Do you believe that Jesus came into the world with half of His chromosomes coming from His earthly mother and half coming from God's own DNA??????????????
God willed Mary to bear a male child. All it took was for God to say "Be So!" and it was so. No chromosomes involved so there fore as humans we are concerned with genetics and genetic descent. God is not.
Jesus was not the genetic offspring of God so therefore God has no progeny.
Spiritually speaking Jesus was such a pure reflection of God's Glory that to speak of Him as the Son of God is perfectly rational. To try to trace his "Y" chromosome to God's is perfectly silly. God needs no DNA, He needs only to exercise His Divine Will. The Qur'an says that God willed Mary to bear a son. So does the Bible.
Regards,
Scott
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Popeyesays said:
That is exactly the point. All man's flesh was tainted by sin when Adam partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In order for Christ not to fall under the curse of death that fell on all men it was necessary for His father to be The Father.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
To my impoverished intellect, if "god" is the "creator" then all of creation is "his" creation, not selective parts. Where exactly do these rocket scientists think we came from if their illustrious god did not create them? Whether god "slept" with Mary or "willed" Mary to become preggers does not make a particle of difference to my thinking. It still makes him "daddy". Am I missing something?Popeyesays said:
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
YmirGF said:
Well, if God is part of His Own Creation, then He might be as prone to death and decay as the rest of Creation.
If God exists with no dependence upon His Creation then what need is therefore Him to possess a physical body with DNA. If He made Mary preggers in the usual way that would indicate that God Himself was created by something else, that He is NOT the Primal Cause of Creation. This implies a hierarchy of Creators, each one creating a subsidiary "GOD" to create His Own universe.
That concept would foreswear the testimony of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad which says God is ONE.
So Christians in the ultraliteralist mode of thought are denying the station of God as Creator when they make the argument that Jesus is the progeny of God. Since this is not reasonably true, then it must be superstition.
Regards,
Scott
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, conceived by the Holy Ghost. Here is our tri-une being. Islam does not believe this, nor do they teach salvation through faith in Christ, in His atoning death on the cross. Either one is right or one is wrong. I myself place my faith in the living Son of God, the Lord and Saviour and King of Kings, Jesus Christ. Be assured, no Muslim dares call Jesus Lord and Saviour nor looks to Him for salvation. Two different Gods and two different religions and two different ways of salvation.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Popeyesays said:
I answered that in my previous post. The only way for Christ to bear our sins was for Him to have a body free from the curse that came upon us all through our lineage to Adam.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Allah is not the God of the bible? How many God's do you think there are?
Perhaps you think that Muslims worship something that does not exist simply because they use a different name for Him? Instead of focusing on differences try to see similarities. The Koran does not say to disbelieve in The Son. It is not that one is correct and another incorrect, both are correct. Don't choose to be blind and not see.
The key is finding God, His Son only came to help us find the path to God. The Son controls the doorway that leads onward to heaven. You do not have to believe in the Son to know God but you certainly have to believe and follow the Son's teachings because they are the same as His Father's.
Popeysays: To answer your question whether I think that Jesus came into the world with half of His chromosomes from Mary and the other half from God's own DNA?
DNA is God's creation. There is none that is not from God. God's divine will is not some mystical magical thing that we cannot comprehend. It's science.
Perhaps you think that Muslims worship something that does not exist simply because they use a different name for Him? Instead of focusing on differences try to see similarities. The Koran does not say to disbelieve in The Son. It is not that one is correct and another incorrect, both are correct. Don't choose to be blind and not see.
The key is finding God, His Son only came to help us find the path to God. The Son controls the doorway that leads onward to heaven. You do not have to believe in the Son to know God but you certainly have to believe and follow the Son's teachings because they are the same as His Father's.
Popeysays: To answer your question whether I think that Jesus came into the world with half of His chromosomes from Mary and the other half from God's own DNA?
DNA is God's creation. There is none that is not from God. God's divine will is not some mystical magical thing that we cannot comprehend. It's science.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
That is making the assumption that the totality of what god is, is expressed within the physical form. If the physical form is considered as an "aspect" of what god is, then this rationale is of little consequence. I see no reason whatsoever that an truly unlimited being, as God is defined as being, could not take on the limitations of a physical body and come play with the kids. Its not likely they would understand much of what he would try to tell them given their preconceptions of what constitutes reality.Popeyesays said:
Um... none, providing of course that indeed god exists with no dependence on his Creations. I would suggest that it is quite the opposite actually. God needs us, as much as we need God. It is a fat lot of good being "god" if there is no one around to "share the wealth" with now is there? That would quickly become a rather lonely, dreary existence and would likely result in the cosmic equivalence of psychosis.Popeyesays said:
I think this is a logical faux pas. Why exactly would it make this so? I smell circular reasoning involved here due to limiting understanding.Popeyesays said:
and what is the problem with that exactly? Given that every human that has ever existed creates something with their hands, thoughts and actions, I am having difficulty understanding why this is even a problem? Does this make the original singularity any less so? Does it? Or perhaps it simply augments that singularity by making it more.Popeyesays said:
I get rather annoyed when people lump the likes of Muhammed, Moses and Abraham in with Jesus, the Christ. It exaggerates their contributions and minimizes the Christ's contributions. To me, that is not cricket as there really is no comparison between a being of Christ's stature to that of these lesser mortals and their comparatively stunted understanding. It is my opinion that people believe these lesser mortals because their messages fall more in line with their own thinking and preconceptions about reality. Krsna, Buddha and the Christ are a tiny bit outside the box.Popeyesays said:
To my thinking this conclusion is based on rather narrow definition of what god is. If God can in fact do anything, why could he not assume the form of a man and walk among us? Oh right, its because some folks who know so very much say it cannot be. I keep forgetting that one. What would I know to claim otherwise? Again, and as usual, I dont claim to be right but at least I do not pretend to be as so many are predisposed. Heck, I'm not even a freakin' Christian, for pity sakes, although I could be described as a freak of nature.Popeyesays said:
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
There is one true God, and many false gods, which are not gods at all.
You don't have to believe in the Son, really? Not according to the Bible, it says over and over:
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)
And what was Jesus' teaching? To believe in Him, that His death pays for our sins. He said, "... no man comes to the Father but by me.
1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
The Bible clearly teaches:
1. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)
2. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
3. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)
4. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)
This is the plain way of salvation, the Gospel which Jesus said to preach to all the earth. Salvation is a free gift, gained only by trusting in Jesus.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Where is the signature of God on the bible? Do you think He would approve of something that claims He is a temptor, jealous, easy to anger, and a murderer who violates His own laws?
When did Jesus say that Allah is not the true God? When did Jesus name His Father?
Simply believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God means nothing. It carries no weight. So a man believes that a man lived thousands of years ago named Jesus, this alone does not get you into heaven.
I tell the truth when I say, forever a man can quote what the bible says yet never understand what it means.
Jesus told us that His Father exists and that we should forgive others. Everything else He said is far beneath these in importance, so far that you can completely forget the others and just follow these two alone.
Why would you think that John sets universal policy? Do you really think that God bow's to John?
This is what the bible means when Jesus says "no man comes to the Father but by me". Christ is God's Son while you and I are God's children, just as every Muslim and every other human is a child of God as well. Christ was created with a specific purpose unlike us. We have a great deal of choice in how we develop our personalities and choice in life experiences.
Before Christ could assume His position as God's representative in this part of the universe He had to bestow Himself upon the earth to learn what being a Child of God is like. Now Christ has fully assumed His position over this part of God's universe. So, after death on the earth you can only continue on the path toward heaven if Christ allows you to.
Don't believe in a name, it's just a word. Instead know what it means.
When did Jesus say that Allah is not the true God? When did Jesus name His Father?
Simply believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God means nothing. It carries no weight. So a man believes that a man lived thousands of years ago named Jesus, this alone does not get you into heaven.
I tell the truth when I say, forever a man can quote what the bible says yet never understand what it means.
Jesus told us that His Father exists and that we should forgive others. Everything else He said is far beneath these in importance, so far that you can completely forget the others and just follow these two alone.
Why would you think that John sets universal policy? Do you really think that God bow's to John?
This is what the bible means when Jesus says "no man comes to the Father but by me". Christ is God's Son while you and I are God's children, just as every Muslim and every other human is a child of God as well. Christ was created with a specific purpose unlike us. We have a great deal of choice in how we develop our personalities and choice in life experiences.
Before Christ could assume His position as God's representative in this part of the universe He had to bestow Himself upon the earth to learn what being a Child of God is like. Now Christ has fully assumed His position over this part of God's universe. So, after death on the earth you can only continue on the path toward heaven if Christ allows you to.
Don't believe in a name, it's just a word. Instead know what it means.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
<That is making the assumption that the totality of what god is, is expressed within the physical form. If the physical form is considered as an "aspect" of what god is, then this rationale is of little consequence. I see no reason whatsoever that an truly unlimited being, as God is defined as being, could not take on the limitations of a physical body and come play with the kids. Its not likely they would understand much of what he would try to tell them given their preconceptions of what constitutes reality.>
No, what this demands is that we assume God is physical in the first place. The Hindu have a term for God walking amongst men, it's called avatar. The Avatar is a physical representation of something else, but it is limited by the physical body. The Hindus realize that God contained within flesh is not really God any longer.
God does not appear in "person" in the Judaic scriptures.
"3,2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3,3 And Moses said: 'I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.' 3,4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said: 'Moses, Moses.' And he said: 'Here am I.' 3,5 And He said: 'Draw not nigh hither; put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.' 3,6 Moreover He said: 'I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
(Torah (Law), Shemos (Exodus))
God does not appear in the Gospels or the Acts or the Epistles. God does not appear in the Qur'an.
"The pictures of Divinity that come to our mind are the product of our fancy; they exist in the realm of our imagination. They are not adequate to the Truth; truth in its essence cannot be put into words.
Divinity cannot by comprehended because it is comprehending.
Man, who has also a real existence, is comprehended by God; therefore, the Divinity which man can understand is partial; it is not complete. Divinity is actual Truth and real existence, and not any representation of it. Divinity itself contains All, and is not contained.
Although the mineral, vegetable, animal and man all have actual being, yet the mineral has no knowledge of the vegetable. It cannot apprehend it. It cannot imagine nor understand it.
It is the same with the vegetable. Any progress it may make, however highly it may become developed, it will never apprehend the animal, nor understand it. It is, so to speak, without news of it. It has no ears, no sight, no understanding. 23
It is the same with the animal. However much it may progress in its own kingdom, however refined its feelings may become, it will have no real notion of the world of man or of his special intellectual faculties.
The animal cannot understand the roundness of the earth, nor its motion in space, nor the central position of the sun, nor can it imagine such a thing as the all-pervading ether.
Although the mineral, vegetable, animal and man himself are actual beings, the difference between their kingdoms prevents members of the lower degree from comprehending the essence and nature of those of the superior degree. This being so, how can the temporal and phenomenal comprehend the Lord of Hosts?"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 22)
No, what this demands is that we assume God is physical in the first place. The Hindu have a term for God walking amongst men, it's called avatar. The Avatar is a physical representation of something else, but it is limited by the physical body. The Hindus realize that God contained within flesh is not really God any longer.
God does not appear in "person" in the Judaic scriptures.
"3,2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3,3 And Moses said: 'I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.' 3,4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said: 'Moses, Moses.' And he said: 'Here am I.' 3,5 And He said: 'Draw not nigh hither; put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.' 3,6 Moreover He said: 'I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
(Torah (Law), Shemos (Exodus))
God does not appear in the Gospels or the Acts or the Epistles. God does not appear in the Qur'an.
"The pictures of Divinity that come to our mind are the product of our fancy; they exist in the realm of our imagination. They are not adequate to the Truth; truth in its essence cannot be put into words.
Divinity cannot by comprehended because it is comprehending.
Man, who has also a real existence, is comprehended by God; therefore, the Divinity which man can understand is partial; it is not complete. Divinity is actual Truth and real existence, and not any representation of it. Divinity itself contains All, and is not contained.
Although the mineral, vegetable, animal and man all have actual being, yet the mineral has no knowledge of the vegetable. It cannot apprehend it. It cannot imagine nor understand it.
It is the same with the vegetable. Any progress it may make, however highly it may become developed, it will never apprehend the animal, nor understand it. It is, so to speak, without news of it. It has no ears, no sight, no understanding. 23
It is the same with the animal. However much it may progress in its own kingdom, however refined its feelings may become, it will have no real notion of the world of man or of his special intellectual faculties.
The animal cannot understand the roundness of the earth, nor its motion in space, nor the central position of the sun, nor can it imagine such a thing as the all-pervading ether.
Although the mineral, vegetable, animal and man himself are actual beings, the difference between their kingdoms prevents members of the lower degree from comprehending the essence and nature of those of the superior degree. This being so, how can the temporal and phenomenal comprehend the Lord of Hosts?"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 22)