This is what Britain gets for Brexit and nationalism

Truthseeker · Sep 12, 2021

The shortage of truck drivers is probably the most immediate issue.

The current driver shortage is estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000, according to a spokesperson for Logistics UK. While Brexit is not entirely to blame, the fact that the UK no longer has easy access to European drivers has created a headache for the industry.

These people cannot simply be replaced by British workers. Besides the fact it can take up to nine months to qualify as a driver and cost up to £5,000 ($6,940) according to Logistics UK, Brits are not lining up to take these jobs.
"We have an aging workforce in the UK and the image of working conditions for lorry [truck] drivers -- unsafe parking spaces or places to rest up -- has made it unattractive for lots of younger people," a spokesperson for Logistics UK told CNN Business.
This creates a hard choice for companies: What goods do you prioritize? If you have only one truck leaving your warehouse that day, you are probably going to prioritize perishables over things like bottled water. In the long run, this means less consumer choice and the possibility of consumer panic, as was seen in 2020 when Britain ran short on supplies of toilet paper.
For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers.

Later:

But Brexit really is starting to bite. It was never going to be the case that the UK would immediately fall apart. But little by little, many of the assurances made in 2016 and during years of negotiations are cracking.

Perhaps one day Johnson will deem it politically expedient to introduce greater mitigation against the downsides of Brexit. Yet even the timing of that is problematic: Admitting you need damage control means there is damage to control.

The hard reality of Brexit is hitting Britain. It's costing everyone but Boris Johnson - CNN

oldbadger · Sep 13, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
The shortage of truck drivers is probably the most immediate issue.

The current driver shortage is estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000, according to a spokesperson for Logistics UK. While Brexit is not entirely to blame, the fact that the UK no longer has easy access to European drivers has created a headache for the industry.

UPSIDE!
POSITIVE REVUE!
Our friend had 'work' difficulties during the pandemic, being self-employed etc etc. So he enrolled on a ten day HGV2 course two months ago. He passed and now can drive rigids...... Tesco put him through a tesco induction and employed him immediately!

Before this crisis it was very very hard for new drivers to get local jobs, they had to drive Europe for ages in order to get a history that pleased Brit companies.

What a brilliant opportunity for Brits...... to get a decent job with prospects of much better conditions and pay in the future.

These people cannot simply be replaced by British workers. Besides the fact it can take up to nine months to qualify as a driver and cost up to £5,000 ($6,940) according to Logistics UK, Brits are not lining up to take these jobs.

Wrong.
You're wrong there. A ten day 'get you through' course is £1500, or that is what our friend payed.

If you want a job in Britain.......you can have one.
Easy.

Truthseeker · Sep 13, 2021

oldbadger said:
UPSIDE!
POSITIVE REVUE!
Our friend had 'work' difficulties during the pandemic, being self-employed etc etc. So he enrolled on a ten day HGV2 course two months ago. He passed and now can drive rigids...... Tesco put him through a tesco induction and employed him immediately!

Before this crisis it was very very hard for new drivers to get local jobs, they had to drive Europe for ages in order to get a history that pleased Brit companies.

What a brilliant opportunity for Brits...... to get a decent job with prospects of much better conditions and pay in the future.

Wrong.
You're wrong there. A ten day 'get you through' course is £1500, or that is what our friend payed.

If you want a job in Britain.......you can have one.
Easy.

I think the article was in respect the entire economy and other stuff. Notice "up to" words. Your friend is just one person. You can't base a situation on one person. However, I plead ignorance, this person is expressing his opinion and could be wrong. I don't know how reliable Logistics UK is. Also I intended people to look at the entire opinion. Look for yourself. I quoted parts to give a taste of what was in the opinion. The idea seemed to be that consumers and businesses are having troubles. It wasn't about individuals getting jobs mostly. Also there is the question a "hard border" or "soft border" in Ireland. Perhaps you could enlighten me what that is all about. Here's a quote from the analysis:

"The UK was supposed to fully enforce a mechanism called the Northern Ireland Protocol later this year. The Protocol was agreed between the UK and EU to reflect the special status of Northern Ireland: Out of the EU, along with the rest of the UK, but sharing a soft land border with the Republic of Ireland, an EU member state."

"Under the Protocol, goods can flow freely between Northern Ireland and the Republic, avoiding the need for a hard border -- an essential measure in preventing a return to sectarian violence on the island. The UK agreed that it would in turn protect the EU's single market by enforcing checks on goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain."

"Doing so would effectively create a sea border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, something that would be very uncomfortable for Johnson, who likes to portray himself as an arch defender of the Union. It would also be anathema to the unionists in Belfast, who this week threatened to collapse the region's fragile power-sharing arrangement over the issue."

"The last thing that Johnson, the man who led the Brexit campaign in 2016, wants to do is allow his opponents to claim that Brexit has not only cut Northern Ireland off from the rest of the UK, but knowingly put additional pressure on both finances and stability in the region."

There is a lot more stuff like that. It is not just about truck drivers.

Here's another quote from what I quoted:

"For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers."

Well, all I can say is look at whatever shortages you have there, and tell me if they are correct.

Secret Chief · Sep 13, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
The shortage of truck drivers is probably the most immediate issue.

The current driver shortage is estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000, according to a spokesperson for Logistics UK. While Brexit is not entirely to blame, the fact that the UK no longer has easy access to European drivers has created a headache for the industry.

These people cannot simply be replaced by British workers. Besides the fact it can take up to nine months to qualify as a driver and cost up to £5,000 ($6,940) according to Logistics UK, Brits are not lining up to take these jobs.
"We have an aging workforce in the UK and the image of working conditions for lorry [truck] drivers -- unsafe parking spaces or places to rest up -- has made it unattractive for lots of younger people," a spokesperson for Logistics UK told CNN Business.
This creates a hard choice for companies: What goods do you prioritize? If you have only one truck leaving your warehouse that day, you are probably going to prioritize perishables over things like bottled water. In the long run, this means less consumer choice and the possibility of consumer panic, as was seen in 2020 when Britain ran short on supplies of toilet paper.
For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers.

Later:

But Brexit really is starting to bite. It was never going to be the case that the UK would immediately fall apart. But little by little, many of the assurances made in 2016 and during years of negotiations are cracking.

Perhaps one day Johnson will deem it politically expedient to introduce greater mitigation against the downsides of Brexit. Yet even the timing of that is problematic: Admitting you need damage control means there is damage to control.

The hard reality of Brexit is hitting Britain. It's costing everyone but Boris Johnson - CNN

You lost, just accept that Project Fear hasn't happened. Welcome to the sunlit uplands of the oven-ready deal. Just ask the people of Northern Ireland. Only kidding, who cares about them. Any teething problems of this new golden age are caused by one or several of the following (as analysed by Neil Oliver on GB News):

1. The left wing BBC spreading lies.
2. The EU punishing us for lying and acting in bad faith.
3. Remoaners refusing to work on farms.
4. The Labour Party (OK, they've not been in power for a decade but still they must be at fault somewhere).
5. EU citizens unaccountably leaving their jobs, as if they were made to feel unwelcome or hated.

Altfish · Sep 13, 2021

The UK has a population of about 68 million; 17.4 million voted for Brexit

oldbadger · Sep 13, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
I think the article was in respect the entire economy and other stuff. Notice "up to" words. Your friend is just one person. You can't base a situation on one person. However, I plead ignorance, this person is expressing his opinion and could be wrong. I don't know how reliable Logistics UK is. Also I intended people to look at the entire opinion. Look for yourself. I quoted parts to give a taste of what was in the opinion. The idea seemed to be that consumers and businesses are having troubles. It wasn't about individuals getting jobs mostly. Also there is the question a "hard border" or "soft border" in Ireland. Perhaps you could enlighten me what that is all about. Here's a quote from the analysis:

"The UK was supposed to fully enforce a mechanism called the Northern Ireland Protocol later this year. The Protocol was agreed between the UK and EU to reflect the special status of Northern Ireland: Out of the EU, along with the rest of the UK, but sharing a soft land border with the Republic of Ireland, an EU member state."

"Under the Protocol, goods can flow freely between Northern Ireland and the Republic, avoiding the need for a hard border -- an essential measure in preventing a return to sectarian violence on the island. The UK agreed that it would in turn protect the EU's single market by enforcing checks on goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain."

"Doing so would effectively create a sea border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, something that would be very uncomfortable for Johnson, who likes to portray himself as an arch defender of the Union. It would also be anathema to the unionists in Belfast, who this week threatened to collapse the region's fragile power-sharing arrangement over the issue."

"The last thing that Johnson, the man who led the Brexit campaign in 2016, wants to do is allow his opponents to claim that Brexit has not only cut Northern Ireland off from the rest of the UK, but knowingly put additional pressure on both finances and stability in the region."

There is a lot more stuff like that. It is not just about truck drivers.

Here's another quote from what I quoted:access

"For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers."

Well, all I can say is look at whatever shortages you have there, and tell me if they are correct.

Your source was wrong about the cost of HGV learner courses with access to a first test.
Clearly the opportunities for HGV driving jobs are now excellent.
Brexit didn't cause the lorry problems, the pandemic did most of the damage.
The 'bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets' quote is trash, because they have not been recorded as issuing any such joint statements.
Some product lines are reducing because of import costs and delays but only very very spoiled folks will be wailing about that.

Northern Ireland? The hatred will go on, no matter how sweet the agreements. I once suggested to a group of hate-hardened-Protestants (who asked) that it might be an idea if all Northern Irish children learned the Irish Gaelic dialect, swpoken by the Catholics mostly, which might help in future generations. Reasonable? They went ranting mad at me. They insisted that their children should never learn that filthy language. Since those days and conversations like that I couldn't offer any clues or cares about Northern Ireland.

Erebus · Sep 13, 2021

The truck driver shortage is easy to fix. First, the training costs should be covered by the state. You then bring in Afghan refugees and guarantee them and their families citizenship if they train to be truck drivers.

This would eliminate the truck driver shortage while simultaneously helping the people trying to flee a deadly situation. As an added bonus, it would really upset Daily Mail readers.

Secret Chief · Sep 13, 2021

Erebus said:
it would really upset Daily Mail readers

They would spontaneously combust. I don't mean metaphorically, I mean actually burst into flames.

RestlessSoul · Sep 13, 2021

Secret Chief said:
They would spontaneously combust. I don't mean metaphorically, I mean actually burst into flames.

I’d vote for that to happen. Then pay to watch it.

Secret Chief · Sep 13, 2021

oldbadger said:
Brexit didn't cause the lorry problems, the pandemic did most of the damage.

Rubbish. You not heard of Kent being turned into a lorry park BECAUSE of brexit?

27-acre Kent field turned into 2,000-vehicle lorry park ahead of Brexit

oldbadger said:
The 'bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets' quote is trash, because they have not been recorded as issuing any such joint statements.

Yet my local supermarket's tannoy keeps on saying sorry for the shortages....Tesco Online are limiting customer orders....

oldbadger said:
Some product lines are reducing because of import costs and delays but only very very spoiled folks will be wailing about that.

Yeah them spoiled ones that like a choice of food or actual loo roll. What's wrong with eating turnips and hedgerow? It got us through the war. That's what we voted for.

oldbadger said:
cares about Northern Ireland.

Thanks for confirming what I said previously. As the delightful Kate Hoey recently said - Northern Ireland has been "thrown under a bus."

HonestJoe · Sep 13, 2021

Altfish said:
The UK has a population of about 68 million; 17.4 million voted for Brexit

Slightly misleading statistics. There was only 46.5 million eligible voters and around 13 million didn't vote at all (so presumably didn't care either way). Just as in a general election, nobody was going to get anything close to an absolute majority here but that doesn't make the result any less valid.

exchemist · Sep 13, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
The shortage of truck drivers is probably the most immediate issue.

The current driver shortage is estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000, according to a spokesperson for Logistics UK. While Brexit is not entirely to blame, the fact that the UK no longer has easy access to European drivers has created a headache for the industry.

These people cannot simply be replaced by British workers. Besides the fact it can take up to nine months to qualify as a driver and cost up to £5,000 ($6,940) according to Logistics UK, Brits are not lining up to take these jobs.
"We have an aging workforce in the UK and the image of working conditions for lorry [truck] drivers -- unsafe parking spaces or places to rest up -- has made it unattractive for lots of younger people," a spokesperson for Logistics UK told CNN Business.
This creates a hard choice for companies: What goods do you prioritize? If you have only one truck leaving your warehouse that day, you are probably going to prioritize perishables over things like bottled water. In the long run, this means less consumer choice and the possibility of consumer panic, as was seen in 2020 when Britain ran short on supplies of toilet paper.
For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers.

Later:

But Brexit really is starting to bite. It was never going to be the case that the UK would immediately fall apart. But little by little, many of the assurances made in 2016 and during years of negotiations are cracking.

Perhaps one day Johnson will deem it politically expedient to introduce greater mitigation against the downsides of Brexit. Yet even the timing of that is problematic: Admitting you need damage control means there is damage to control.

The hard reality of Brexit is hitting Britain. It's costing everyone but Boris Johnson - CNN

This is what happens when you turn your back on the outside world.

A lot of things get more expensive when you decide you want to do them all yourself, instead of taking advantage of poorer people's willingness to do the work for less money. That's what will happen with lorry drivers, restaurant waiters, care home staff, fruit and vegetable pickers, etc., etc. We Brits will just have to pay a lot more to get our countrymen to do these jobs. Prices will go up.

Many of us knew Brexit was a vote for impoverishment, but it will take some years before the full effect becomes obvious. The lorry driver shortage has high visibility because of the effect on supermarket shelves. Other things are less clear-cut, though it is already clear at my father's nursing home that the staff are getting less intelligent, less competent and less motivated.

It can be argued that these labour shortages should be a good thing for those in British society who have been unable to get jobs. But we already have a low unemployment rate - or will do once the Covid effects unwind. So we may soon find we are close to the level at which most of those still out of work are functionally unemployable, i.e. so bloody hopeless that they would be a liability whatever training was on offer.

Secret Chief · Sep 13, 2021

exchemist said:
though it is already clear at my father's nursing home that the staff are getting less intelligent, less competent and less motivated.

Staff are leaving to get better pay as couriers or supermarket staff.

exchemist said:
So we may soon find we are close to the level at which most of those still out of work are functionally unemployable, i.e. so bloody hopeless that they would be a liability whatever training was on offer.

So true.

Altfish · Sep 13, 2021

HonestJoe said:
Slightly misleading statistics. There was only 46.5 million eligible voters and around 13 million didn't vote at all (so presumably didn't care either way). Just as in a general election, nobody was going to get anything close to an absolute majority here but that doesn't make the result any less valid.

BUT the elderly voted overwhelmingly for Brexit and they reckon 10% at least of the over 65s have died, most youngsters voted Remain. It is reasonable to assume that in the 5-years since the vote (and knowing what we now know) that all those who are 23 and younger who could not voted would vote Remain.
There was also a lot of complacency, everyone thought Remain would win, hence they thought it didn't matter if they voted or not.

People are starting to realise they voted for chaos.

HonestJoe · Sep 13, 2021

Altfish said:
BUT the elderly voted overwhelmingly for Brexit and they reckon 10% at least of the over 65s have died, most youngsters voted Remain. It is reasonable to assume that in the 5-years since the vote (and knowing what we now know) that all those who are 23 and younger who could not voted would vote Remain.

That's irrelevant. The vote was when it was and was of the eligible voting population at that time.

Altfish said:
There was also a lot of complacency, everyone thought Remain would win, hence they thought it didn't matter if they voted or not.

To an extent, but that is on them. If you choose not to vote, you choose not to vote. Saying "But I would have..." after the fact doesn't change anything.

Altfish said:
People are starting to realise they voted for chaos.

Yes (and some of us are having the "told you so" moment) but the country did vote for it. Your comment was clearly trying to imply the result wasn't really valid because a relatively small minority of the total population actually voted leave but that isn't how the legitimacy of elections are determined.

Brexit has happened. You can either accept that and make the best of a bad job or make positive argument to reverse the decision (which would be difficult). Reviewing the referendum vote now is less than useless.

Altfish · Sep 13, 2021

HonestJoe said:
Yes (and some of us are having the "told you so" moment) but the country did vote for it. Your comment was clearly trying to imply the result wasn't really valid because a relatively small minority of the total population actually voted leave but that isn't how the legitimacy of elections are determined.

Brexit has happened. You can either accept that and make the best of a bad job or make positive argument to reverse the decision (which would be difficult). Reviewing the referendum vote now is less than useless.

It was an 'Advisory' poll - it was not binding. Even Farage said if it was 52-48 "It is not finished"

Brexit made many promises. Including ...

Staying in the single market
£350m a week for NHS
Less paperwork
No immigration

Add to that and they have taken funding from dodgy places and broke election law

Yes, Brexit won, but don't ever ask me to accept it.
I am a patriot, I want what is best for my country - Brexit is not best for our country.

Kenny · Sep 13, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
The shortage of truck drivers is probably the most immediate issue.

The current driver shortage is estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000, according to a spokesperson for Logistics UK. While Brexit is not entirely to blame, the fact that the UK no longer has easy access to European drivers has created a headache for the industry.

These people cannot simply be replaced by British workers. Besides the fact it can take up to nine months to qualify as a driver and cost up to £5,000 ($6,940) according to Logistics UK, Brits are not lining up to take these jobs.
"We have an aging workforce in the UK and the image of working conditions for lorry [truck] drivers -- unsafe parking spaces or places to rest up -- has made it unattractive for lots of younger people," a spokesperson for Logistics UK told CNN Business.
This creates a hard choice for companies: What goods do you prioritize? If you have only one truck leaving your warehouse that day, you are probably going to prioritize perishables over things like bottled water. In the long run, this means less consumer choice and the possibility of consumer panic, as was seen in 2020 when Britain ran short on supplies of toilet paper.
For some idea of how serious a problem is, the bosses of Britain's biggest supermarkets have described the food shortages as unprecedented -- one told The Times newspaper they were "at a worse level than at any time I have seen" -- and warned that shelves could be bare at Christmas due to a lack of drivers.

Later:

But Brexit really is starting to bite. It was never going to be the case that the UK would immediately fall apart. But little by little, many of the assurances made in 2016 and during years of negotiations are cracking.

Perhaps one day Johnson will deem it politically expedient to introduce greater mitigation against the downsides of Brexit. Yet even the timing of that is problematic: Admitting you need damage control means there is damage to control.

The hard reality of Brexit is hitting Britain. It's costing everyone but Boris Johnson - CNN

I'm not sure that we can relegate anything to just one reason.

We have a shortage in the US in many areas due to the results of Covid and financial support. Has there been financial support in Britain because of the effects of Covid?

HonestJoe · Sep 13, 2021

Altfish said:
It was an 'Advisory' poll - it was not binding. Even Farage said if it was 52-48 "It is not finished"

And if it had been 52% Remain, I've no doubt Farage would have dismissed the vote and kept on fighting. The moment Leave won though, he was celebrating and moving on. And lets not pretend all of the Remain supporters moaning about the vote wouldn't have done exactly the same thing had they won.

Altfish said:
Yes, Brexit won, but don't ever ask me to accept it.
I am a patriot, I want what is best for my country - Brexit is not best for our country.

You can choose not to accept that it's raining but you'll still get wet. I agree that Brexit wasn't the best option but I don't consider it inevitably disastrous. As I said, it's much better, for yourself and the country as a whole, to accept reality and focus on making the best out of a bad situation.

Altfish · Sep 13, 2021

HonestJoe said:
And if it had been 52% Remain, I've no doubt Farage would have dismissed the vote and kept on fighting. The moment Leave won though, he was celebrating and moving on. And lets not pretend all of the Remain supporters moaning about the vote wouldn't have done exactly the same thing had they won.

You can choose not to accept that it's raining but you'll still get wet. I agree that Brexit wasn't the best option but I don't consider it inevitably disastrous. As I said, it's much better, for yourself and the country as a whole, to accept reality and focus on making the best out of a bad situation.

The Tories won the last election, I oppose them, I want a change at the next election. The same with Brexit

Name me one thing I can take advantage of under Brexit. btw I am retired.

Brickjectivity · Sep 13, 2021

There is a huge driver shortage in the USA, partly due to the pandemic. Small retailers have trouble getting shipments. I don't know if that speaks to GB's driver problem at all.

This is what Britain gets for Brexit and nationalism

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