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Question to all Baha`i in RF

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I have read here in RF that Bahaì practitioners speak about unity, and I was wondering is it unity of Love?
Unity of love for all beings and all religions/spiritual paths?

If this is so, does this lead to the realization of Allah when a person holds unconditional love from within their heart no matter what religious practice they do?

Hope this Is not too difficult to understand :)

Unity is a pivotal principle of the Baha'i writings. It is a profound realization that we are all one people, humanity is one race and true religion derives its inspiration from one source, God.

Shoghi Effendi in one of his works to the Baha'is of America has spoken of spiritual unity extending even into the political realm:

"Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind—the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a reawakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good-will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cöoperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family. It does not constitute merely the enunciation of an ideal, but stands inseparably associated with an institution adequate to embody its truth, demonstrate its validity, and perpetuate its influence. It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced. It constitutes a challenge, at once bold and universal, to outworn shibboleths of national creeds—creeds that have had their day and which must, in the ordinary course of events as shaped and controlled by Providence, give way to a new gospel, fundamentally different from, and infinitely superior to, what the world has already conceived. It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units."
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Unity is a pivotal principle of the Baha'i writings. It is a profound realization that we are all one people, humanity is one race and true religion derives its inspiration from one source, God.

Shoghi Effendi in one of his works to the Baha'is of America has spoken of spiritual unity extending even into the political realm:

"Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind—the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a reawakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good-will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cöoperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family. It does not constitute merely the enunciation of an ideal, but stands inseparably associated with an institution adequate to embody its truth, demonstrate its validity, and perpetuate its influence. It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced. It constitutes a challenge, at once bold and universal, to outworn shibboleths of national creeds—creeds that have had their day and which must, in the ordinary course of events as shaped and controlled by Providence, give way to a new gospel, fundamentally different from, and infinitely superior to, what the world has already conceived. It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units."
Thank you @adrian009 :) As always you guys from Baha`i know how to give an interesting answers to a humble question :)
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yeah, the unbelievers were also created by Allah, but a terrible future await them.
What do I know about 'divine love'? I am a strong atheist.
That is what all prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations say. Not my words. Don't know what Mirza Gholam Ahmad, the Mahdi, said about it. :D

The Key here Aupmanyav is our unity in diversity. No Messengers asks anyone to accept them, but of their own free will.

All they ask is is for one to be fair and just in judgement and offer peace.

Regards Tony

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can make up Islam to be what you want, and I won't fight you over it. Mohammad (s) is a Messenger to the whole world, those who aren't attentive in ears when coming to Quran, there maybe excuses for them, there may not be, but over all, Quran guides and unbinds the spells over it. It leads to the guidance and straight path.

The quandary you will face with making Muhammad exclusive is that all Messengers are for the whole world, but there was a time when people thought the whole word was their own land and did not know of other countries and peoples, or consider they were part of the bigger picture.

There is no compulsion in religion, so if people choose a faith that is not Islam and in the practice of that Faith they also praise Muhammad as a Messenger from Allah, Islam by the law given in the Quran must live in peace with them. They have the right to fairly tax them, but that is all.

As such Islam has no right to force any person to submit. Submission is a personal choice, a bounty of Allah, not a right of men to force it on to others.

In the Love of Mahummad (peace be with him) and Allah, I wish you all the best. Regards Tony
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yeah, the unbelievers were also created by Allah, but a terrible future await them.
What do I know about 'divine love'? I am a strong atheist.
That is what all prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations say. Not my words. Don't know what Mirza Gholam Ahmad, the Mahdi, said about it. :D
Strange they predict this: "unbelievers were also created by Allah, but a terrible future await them"
As we are not the body, mind and emotions. These won't last long, and are an illusion anyway
No future for these for sure; theists and atheist alike, hence "terrible future" makes no sense

It's divinity that incarnates, and divinity does not die
Hence from that POV "terrible future" makes no sense either
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The Key here Aupmanyav is our unity in diversity. No Messengers asks anyone to accept them, but of their own free will.
I am sorry, but Bahaollah makes is absolutely essential and says that no questions should be asked when a messenger/manifestation declares his 'divine' (or whatever) mission.

And he secures his position for one thousand years by saying that anyone who claims to be a manifestation is a charlatan. However, we know that the time difference between Buddha and Jesus waas 500 years, and Jesus and Mohammad was 600 years, and in case of Bahaollah it was more than 1200 years. Why was the Bahai Manifestation of Allah speaking a lie? Were Jesus and Mohammad charlatans?
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
As such Islam has no right to force any person to submit. Submission is a personal choice, a bounty of Allah, not a right of men to force it on to others.
What you say in not corroborated by facts. See Mohammad's letters to the head of states:

To Mundhir b. Sawa, Sasanid Arab governor of historic Bahrain (Mazun)
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to al-Munḏir the son of Sāwá:
Peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam").
So submit [to God] (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition]. And submit [as] God shall [permanently] ordain for you what you have [now], and I know that my religion will appear to the end of the camel's toe and the horse's hoof (i.e., as far as the Muslim camelry and cavalry could reach).
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

To Jayfar and 'Ayyad, co-regents of the Azd of Oman
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to Jayfar and ʿAbd [sic], the sons of al-Julandī:
Then peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you two to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam"). Submit (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition, for] I, in fact, am the apostle of God to mankind in its entirety, "that he may warn whoever is [spiritually] alive and [God's] word is proven against the infidels (i.e., those without faith in God)."
Then indeed you two: if you consent unto Submission [to God], I shall patronize you. But if you refuse, then [know that] indeed your dominion is fleeting, and my horsemen shall invade into your courtyard, and my prophethood shall become manifest upon your dominion.
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What you say in not corroborated by facts. See Mohammad's letters to the head of states:

To Mundhir b. Sawa, Sasanid Arab governor of historic Bahrain (Mazun)
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to al-Munḏir the son of Sāwá:
Peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam").
So submit [to God] (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition]. And submit [as] God shall [permanently] ordain for you what you have [now], and I know that my religion will appear to the end of the camel's toe and the horse's hoof (i.e., as far as the Muslim camelry and cavalry could reach).
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

Then,

Indeed my messengers have already remarked well about you for God. Thereby I have already interceded for you in the matter of your people. So relinquish for the Muslims what they have submitted upon (i.e., give them freedom to practice Islam). And I have issued pardon for the lot of offenders, so accept [penitence] from them. And if you are righteous whatsoever, I shall not depose you from your office. And whoever stays upon his Judaism or his Zoroastrianism ("Magianism"), they should fulfill the retribute-capitation ("jizya").
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

To Jayfar and 'Ayyad, co-regents of the Azd of Oman
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to Jayfar and ʿAbd [sic], the sons of al-Julandī:
Then peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you two to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam"). Submit (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition, for] I, in fact, am the apostle of God to mankind in its entirety, "that he may warn whoever is [spiritually] alive and [God's] word is proven against the infidels (i.e., those without faith in God)."
Then indeed you two: if you consent unto Submission [to God], I shall patronize you. But if you refuse, then [know that] indeed your dominion is fleeting, and my horsemen shall invade into your courtyard, and my prophethood shall become manifest upon your dominion.
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

The problem is they are given out of context.

Baha'u'llah wrote to all the Kings, Queens Presidents, rulers, Priests, Mullah etc with letters containing how to bring peace and strong warnings of what would happen to them and the world if they did not.

Yet, you can see that all those strong words do not have to become war and physical violence, that is a plain and simple explanation.

Out of Love for the Truth, and for Muhammad, I will not reply to any more posts offering that line of reasoning about a Messenger.

All the best, regards Tony
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Bahaollah also threatened. To the German Emperor, he wrote (as reported by Shoghi) that he sees Rhine flowing with blood. So threats are a constant companion of Abrahamic religions.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I have read here in RF that Bahaì practitioners speak about unity, and I was wondering is it unity of Love?
Unity of love for all beings and all religions/spiritual paths?

If this is so, does this lead to the realization of Allah when a person holds unconditional love from within their heart no matter what religious practice they do?

Hope this Is not too difficult to understand :)

Thank you for your open minded questions @Conscious thoughts. I will try to answer from my heart and how I feel in my inmost being.

When I come across for example, threads attacking Prophet Muhammad and Muslims I love to defend and uphold the Quran and explain how it is a misunderstanding and not truth. I then celebrate in my heart and experience deep joy and look forward to meeting the blessed Prophet in the next world.

The same with all the Teachers and Messengers. I consider it a blessing, privilege and greatest of all bounties to espouse the truth of Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, Moses, Zoroaster, the Bab and Baha’u’llah in this world knowing that God loves those who love all people and all religions. And Figures like Rumi, a Sufi master are so loved and their works quoted in many works.

To love all people, to accept all truth and see all as equals whether they agree or not, are friends or not it does not matter.

All here are good people. All I consider friends and I always feel fortunate that people here are so open minded and understanding.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Thank you for your open minded questions @Conscious thoughts. I will try to answer from my heart and how I feel in my inmost being.

When I come across for example, threads attacking Prophet Muhammad and Muslims I love to defend and uphold the Quran and explain how it is a misunderstanding and not truth. I then celebrate in my heart and experience deep joy and look forward to meeting the blessed Prophet in the next world.

The same with all the Teachers and Messengers. I consider it a blessing, privilege and greatest of all bounties to espouse the truth of Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, Moses, Zoroaster, the Bab and Baha’u’llah in this world knowing that God loves those who love all people and all religions. And Figures like Rumi, a Sufi master are so loved and their works quoted in many works.

To love all people, to accept all truth and see all as equals whether they agree or not, are friends or not it does not matter.

All here are good people. All I consider friends and I always feel fortunate that people here are so open minded and understanding.
Thank you for your beautiful reply @loverofhumanity :) You truly have a good heart
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
"perfect unity". Sai Baba said "unity of thoughts, words and deeds is essential for Spiritual aspirants". This helps to reach "perfect unity"
To quote from Wikipedia: Sai Baba respected all creeds, true to his conviction that all religions are but particular paths leading to one ineffable goal.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
As a sufi the mostly high I can find is speaking the truth, and hold unconditional love within my heart toward all beings, this means I love each person on earth, but not their evil action, words, or thoughts.
To me that is the real Islam, To be able to forgive, love, and respect every being.

And being hard toward myself, to become even more good as a human.
Agree with rest, but be just to yourself.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I have read here in RF that Bahaì practitioners speak about unity, and I was wondering is it unity of Love?
Unity of love for all beings and all religions/spiritual paths?

If this is so, does this lead to the realization of Allah when a person holds unconditional love from within their heart no matter what religious practice they do?

Hope this Is not too difficult to understand :)

God made all. So, it would make sense that all should be treated the same. Is it possible that some are on the wrong path? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that we should shun or tease them. We shouldn't have the hubris to assume that ours is the only right path.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Why the "no mind state" is such a high state

Well, I can maybe show it to you best, with your quote from Abdul'baha below:

"perfect unity". Sai Baba said "unity of thoughts, words and deeds is essential for Spiritual aspirants". This helps to reach "perfect unity"

1) IF there is no unity in "thought, word and deed" THEN you would not call it "be in perfect unity", right?
2) Everything starts with a "thought", usually words come next and actions last (count till 10 before speaking works miracles here):D
Obviously, when having "no thoughts" you have "no bad thoughts" either, which is not a bad thing, considering below quote from Abdul'baha

Anger is an emotion, and also a thought. Just repeat in your mind "I hate that person", and sooner or later it might happen.

In the "no thought" meditative state you can't go wrong easily I think

Having no thoughts might allow someone to manipulate you. Shouldn't you think through all courses of action?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Unity is a pivotal principle of the Baha'i writings. It is a profound realization that we are all one people, humanity is one race and true religion derives its inspiration from one source, God.

Shoghi Effendi in one of his works to the Baha'is of America has spoken of spiritual unity extending even into the political realm:

"Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind—the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a reawakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good-will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cöoperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family. It does not constitute merely the enunciation of an ideal, but stands inseparably associated with an institution adequate to embody its truth, demonstrate its validity, and perpetuate its influence. It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced. It constitutes a challenge, at once bold and universal, to outworn shibboleths of national creeds—creeds that have had their day and which must, in the ordinary course of events as shaped and controlled by Providence, give way to a new gospel, fundamentally different from, and infinitely superior to, what the world has already conceived. It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units."

As usual, Adrian, pure thoughts and profound wisdom.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
What you say in not corroborated by facts. See Mohammad's letters to the head of states:

To Mundhir b. Sawa, Sasanid Arab governor of historic Bahrain (Mazun)
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to al-Munḏir the son of Sāwá:
Peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam").
So submit [to God] (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition]. And submit [as] God shall [permanently] ordain for you what you have [now], and I know that my religion will appear to the end of the camel's toe and the horse's hoof (i.e., as far as the Muslim camelry and cavalry could reach).
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

To Jayfar and 'Ayyad, co-regents of the Azd of Oman
In the name of God, the Gracious One, the Merciful
From Muhammad, Apostle of God to Jayfar and ʿAbd [sic], the sons of al-Julandī:
Then peace unto whoever follows the guided path!
Thereafter, verily I call you two to the call of Submission [to God] ("Islam"). Submit (i.e., embrace Islam) and be safe [from perdition, for] I, in fact, am the apostle of God to mankind in its entirety, "that he may warn whoever is [spiritually] alive and [God's] word is proven against the infidels (i.e., those without faith in God)."
Then indeed you two: if you consent unto Submission [to God], I shall patronize you. But if you refuse, then [know that] indeed your dominion is fleeting, and my horsemen shall invade into your courtyard, and my prophethood shall become manifest upon your dominion.
Seal: Muhammad, Apostle of God

  • Where did you get this from?
  • Why do you believe these are historical?
  • Why do you cut and paste the words in parenthesis believing that is historical and actual writing with Muhammed signature?
  • Do you have proper grounds or do you just have blind faith as in a dogmatic religious belief in these letters to be as you cut and pasted?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I am sorry, but Bahaollah makes is absolutely essential and says that no questions should be asked when a messenger/manifestation declares his 'divine' (or whatever) mission.

This is interesting. I would like to read this passage and its context. Please give the reference.
 
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