Is sin in the human genome and what are the implications?

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

Musing Bassist said:
Only those who achieve the beatific vision are incapable of sin. God desires that the beatific vision be earned, therefore Adam and Eve had to be created with the potential to sin. This also applied to the angels. It was only those angels who affirmed their loyalty to God who were granted the beatific vision. Which is why there can never be another angelic fall. Or why those in Heaven will never displease God because their wills are eternally fixed to God.

Sin is a violation of the laws of God. Original sin is the deprivation of original justice, without which we are subject to a propensity to sin. Sin in any case is not a physical reality as such, although it can have physical consequences. E.g. venereal disease, obesity, bad health or even death caused by drug use...

I find your explanation of sin much better than that of someone without much knowledge of science declaring it to be genetic.

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

cOLTER said:
Sin isn't a gene but a fallen environment can contribute to the choice to sin.

Specifically, Adam and Eve came from another world and could have lived on indefinitely by eating the leaves from "the tree of life" which was real shrub. But their sin ended that ability for them. Death and or translation is normal for humans like us. This revelation comes from the Urantia Book.

Is that part of Latter Day Saint teachings or is this some different story?

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

cOLTER said:
Sin isn't a gene but a fallen environment can contribute to the choice to sin.

Specifically, Adam and Eve came from another world and could have lived on indefinitely by eating the leaves from "the tree of life" which was real shrub. But their sin ended that ability for them. Death and or translation is normal for humans like us. This revelation comes from the Urantia Book.

I guess it is a different story.

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

Clara Tea said:
I read a recent scientific research paper that proved that RNA transferred memories to a lab animal. Maybe memory of the consumption of the forbidden fruit is now encoded in human RNA?

I am only vaguely familiar with the concept of memory RNA, but I do find it interesting. Do you recall the paper?

Wandering Monk · May 31, 2021

What specific location and mutation in the human genome was caused by sin? What was the biological mechanism that sin to make that mutation?

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

Wandering Monk said:
What specific location and mutation in the human genome was caused by sin? What was the biological mechanism that sin to make that mutation?

The way I heard it, it isn't just a gene that caused sin, but sin itself is part of the genome. I have no idea regarding mechanisms or mutations. My requests for elaboration were not answered with anything relevant.

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

Wandering Monk said:
What specific location and mutation in the human genome was caused by sin? What was the biological mechanism that sin to make that mutation?

Personally, I would think it would have to be more than one gene given the nature of sin that I reading about in some of the other responses.

But no matter, the implications of this--were it correct--would be tremendous.

Colt · May 31, 2021

Dan From Smithville said:
I guess it is a different story.

It comes from the Urantia Book revelation.

Dan From Smithville · May 31, 2021

cOLTER said:
It comes from the Urantia Book revelation.

Thanks for the clarification.

Colt · May 31, 2021

Wandering Monk said:
What specific location and mutation in the human genome was caused by sin? What was the biological mechanism that sin to make that mutation?

When Adam arrived on a previously populated, fallen earth, the "crafty beast" was already working to undermine the two of them. IN the UB Eves sin was mating with someone from outside of the garden in order to speed up rehabilitation of the gene pool with her superior genes. This did have biological consequences for her ancestors. Cain was the result.

Recall that the Nephilim had tried to do the same.

alypius · Jun 1, 2021

Dan From Smithville said:
Recently, I read that sin is 100% genetically transmitted, but I have not been given any further information in support of this claim despite a number of requests for that information.

If sin is always voluntary, then how can it be genetically transmitted?

Dan From Smithville · Jun 1, 2021

alypius said:
If sin is always voluntary, then how can it be genetically transmitted?

Good point. One that seems to go over the head of persons claiming it is genetic.

Colt · Jun 1, 2021

alypius said:
If sin is always voluntary, then how can it be genetically transmitted?

The consequences of sin can be said to be genetic.

metis · Jun 1, 2021

Dan From Smithville said:
One that seems to go over the head of persons claiming it is genetic.

And it makes no sense, imo, as why would God condemn a person because some distant ancestor sinned?

The other more logical alternative, imo, is that sin may affect not only the person's family but also society as a whole.

sealchan · Jun 2, 2021

Dan From Smithville said:
I agree. The story is designed to force belief into known science without benefit of any evidence for the assertion.

I find your ideas on perfection to be thought provoking. I don't know that perfection can exist, but I have never seen seeking it as a sin. I like your latter two points, though I would name the second hubris and not perfection.

I am thinking this over. It appears you see sin as a necessity for knowledge, but at the same time, a flaw that leaves us needing salvation?

Still, there is no evidence that sin exists as a component of the human genome.

I think that all the evidence points to a Universe that is based on rules...which are always broken at some point. That is an essential quality of the reality we live in. And, in fact, I suspect that all laws are essentially based on incidental occurrences that are not inevitable enough to be counted on occurring before some other "occluding possibilty" (that is another event that will prevent the first event from occurring and, therefore, what might have been a long lasting salient aspect of our reality will never come to pass) might arise.

So perfection can never occur because it would imply a forever standard that would kill the very heart of the creative dynamism that is our experience. In this sense a relationship with God is a willingness to encounter this fundamental openness to possibility that makes laws never absolute...we must relate to reality (aka Gods creation) with the same openness that we should relate to another human being...never passing final judgment as if the standards we use can be applied with ultimate confidence.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 2, 2021

sealchan said:
I think that all the evidence points to a Universe that is based on rules...which are always broken at some point. That is an essential quality of the reality we live in. And, in fact, I suspect that all laws are essentially based on incidental occurrences that are not inevitable enough to be counted on occurring before some other "occluding possibilty" (that is another event that will prevent the first event from occurring and, therefore, what might have been a long lasting salient aspect of our reality will never come to pass) might arise.

So perfection can never occur because it would imply a forever standard that would kill the very heart of the creative dynamism that is our experience. In this sense a relationship with God is a willingness to encounter this fundamental openness to possibility that makes laws never absolute...we must relate to reality (aka Gods creation) with the same openness that we should relate to another human being...never passing final judgment as if the standards we use can be applied with ultimate confidence.

Do you mean or include natural laws like the laws of motion?

Dan From Smithville · Jun 2, 2021

metis said:
And it makes no sense, imo, as why would God condemn a person because some distant ancestor sinned?

The Bible tells us in several different books that the sins of the father shall not be passed to the son, so I tend to agree. I think of the story of Adam and Eve as a metaphor to describe our propensity to succumb to temptation and sin. How human nature can be perverted by temptation and this moves us away from God and what He wants for us.

metis said:
The other more logical alternative, imo, is that sin may affect not only the person's family but also society as a whole.

I agree here too. The results of our sin can have far reaching impact.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 2, 2021

sealchan said:
I think that all the evidence points to a Universe that is based on rules...which are always broken at some point. That is an essential quality of the reality we live in. And, in fact, I suspect that all laws are essentially based on incidental occurrences that are not inevitable enough to be counted on occurring before some other "occluding possibilty" (that is another event that will prevent the first event from occurring and, therefore, what might have been a long lasting salient aspect of our reality will never come to pass) might arise.

So perfection can never occur because it would imply a forever standard that would kill the very heart of the creative dynamism that is our experience. In this sense a relationship with God is a willingness to encounter this fundamental openness to possibility that makes laws never absolute...we must relate to reality (aka Gods creation) with the same openness that we should relate to another human being...never passing final judgment as if the standards we use can be applied with ultimate confidence.

Perfection is often highly subjective in my opinion. We cannot seem to establish what perfection would really mean in a given set of conditions. Striving for what we consider perfection seems more important, creative and useful than actually achieving it, if it even exists. I am not certain that it is logically possible for us to know what a perfect thing is among all the possibilities.

sealchan · Jun 3, 2021

Dan From Smithville said:
Do you mean or include natural laws like the laws of motion?

Yes. I think we can see even with Newton's laws of motion that these are "broken" at high speeds and better described by Einstein's relativity. Newton's laws work within the range of everyday experience that Newton and we still access and so are practically correct if not totally correct ways of describing reality.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 3, 2021

sealchan said:
Yes. I think we can see even with Newton's laws of motion that these are "broken" at high speeds and better described by Einstein's relativity. Newton's laws work within the range of everyday experience that Newton and we still access and so are practically correct if not totally correct ways of describing reality.

I don't know if you can call it broken in the sense that the law is broken or that it was incomplete in its conception. But I also do not know if those two things are not the same from a different angle.

I have been thinking of the concept of perfection for a while and not only did I find your post interesting, it inspired to finally make a crude attempt at posting my own thread on the subject.

Cheers.

Is sin in the human genome and what are the implications?

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