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Father alone is God
- Thread starter Iymus
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ElishaElijah
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Jesus is the Creator, the Almighty, God became man, Son of Man to redeem mankind.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Why do you think repeating what you believe is meaningful?
Let's consider what the Bible says.
You quoted a text in the Bible which says the Word is begotten of the father. In harmony with John 3:16.
Begotten - brought forth. Thus the Word had a beginning - was created... by the father.
Again, according to post #149, what would that mean?
ElishaElijah
Return
“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.”
Colossians 2:8-10 NKJV
rational experiences
Veteran Member
O God stone mass planet straight from O held form out of the eternal. Held its form entity, burnt, cooled, evolved was complete O a mass without any space.
Space what no longer existed.
Spaces what was destroyed converted from O what science says is whole, origin complete and perfection.
Yet today claim O I want God what is perfect to be converted into what I WANT, energy, a non stop channelled supply.
O God however sealed, stone, mass and complete owns no space.
So how would you get God, the body of to change when science as a man human and brothers called planet Earth one God as he abstracts all material products from its Earth form?
In reality as a theist who keeps quoting Jesus as if Jesus owned all the mass in the heavens as a son of God.
Mass heavens in various conditions of a story, multi changes and actions owns why natural light the Immaculate is sacrificed burning to be story taught as the sacrificed spirit body of God as a spirit. When God is first mass and an entity as One, the spirit of God his son is obviously not the Earth as mass and was taught as a variable body.
Yet Jesus is not the mass of the Heavens as a gas body changing constantly.
Discuss of SION, the constant of light only for science.
Proves that you lied about why you believed self safe inside of a mass heavens with intent of taking what the atmospheric body itself owned in a vacuum. Is not a sensible human theory.
Space what no longer existed.
Spaces what was destroyed converted from O what science says is whole, origin complete and perfection.
Yet today claim O I want God what is perfect to be converted into what I WANT, energy, a non stop channelled supply.
O God however sealed, stone, mass and complete owns no space.
So how would you get God, the body of to change when science as a man human and brothers called planet Earth one God as he abstracts all material products from its Earth form?
In reality as a theist who keeps quoting Jesus as if Jesus owned all the mass in the heavens as a son of God.
Mass heavens in various conditions of a story, multi changes and actions owns why natural light the Immaculate is sacrificed burning to be story taught as the sacrificed spirit body of God as a spirit. When God is first mass and an entity as One, the spirit of God his son is obviously not the Earth as mass and was taught as a variable body.
Yet Jesus is not the mass of the Heavens as a gas body changing constantly.
Discuss of SION, the constant of light only for science.
Proves that you lied about why you believed self safe inside of a mass heavens with intent of taking what the atmospheric body itself owned in a vacuum. Is not a sensible human theory.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation who came in the shoes of the Son of GOD to bail Mankind, Adam His Eminence. HE is not a creation of GOD. HE is GOD. HE is GOD the Son. Which mean the Express image of the invisible GOD. Adam, His Eminence, is the Son of GOD.
ElishaElijah
Return
“And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!” And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.”
Revelation 5:9-14 NKJV
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Out of all of the words in the bible, why do people have to make up words and bring them into their doctrines. Jesus IS the image of God, yes, but that doesnt make him God. Scripture tells us that he is the "son of God", why cant we just use that? Why bring in words like "incarnate" and "God the son", etc, etc.
Doesnt scripture also tell us that Jesus came in his father's name? Jesus says his father is greater than he. I mean, we can go on like this all day..... Jesus is not God, he is the son of God. Jesus also has a father and a God....
ElishaElijah
Return
“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7 NKJV
nPeace
Veteran Member
LOL. Classic.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Is this how you communicate with people in general? How is this having a conversation?
ElishaElijah
Return
“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.”
Hebrews 4:12-13 NKJV
The Bible speaks for itself, if you want to have a conversation we can talk hockey, food, your interests, I’m all for it. As far as the subject about God, the Bible seems to explain the best.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
Nothing is made up. Jesus His Pre-Eminence is GOD. And HE revealed it many times. One such time was when HE was telling the people what Moses told them was not accurate, and HE revea what HE told Moses but Moses wasn't able to bring out that height of Revelation. If GOD gives birth to a son, HE doesn't need the womb of a woman to do so. HIS son, Adam needed no womb to be born. It is written in Luke 3:38, that Adam is the Son of GOD, why do you deny it? HE also revealed HE is GOD when HE fed the multitude with 5 loaves of bread and two fishes, showing that HE is the GOD that fed their fathers in the wilderness. HE also revealed it,when HE said: I proceeded from the father, I go back to the father. HE also revealed it, when HE told Apostle Peter, to go and cast a hook, and the first fish he catches, take the coin out of its mouth, which was the sign of Jonah HE gave to them. And lastly, HE told Philip, he that has seen me, has seen the father.
But now to refute that HE called HIMSELF the Son of GOD.
1. When Apostle Peter said: Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living GOD, and HE said that it was by revelation that he knew this. And that he should see that they tell no man this. HE didn't say HE is the Son of GOD, HE told them not to tell anyone that. The one that revealed to them that HE is the Son of GOD is John the Baptist, who they followed before Jesus His Pre-Eminence ministry began.
Compare this to Matt 24: For Many shall come in my name saying: I am Christ,and shall deceive many.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Why did HE tell them that? Because he is not HIS own son, HE is GOD. And because of this, the church, the builders rejected the Son of GOD, Adam His Eminence. And they called Jesus His Pre-Eminence the Son of GOD which is not true idenity.
And another place, in Matt 4:
3The tempter came to Him and said, “If You are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”4But Jesus answered, “It is written:
‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
HE didn't change the stone into bread because HE isn't the Son of GOD.
Then on the cross.
If thou be the Son of GOD, save us and yourself... Which again HE didn't do.
The way that HE came into the earth, through the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, that birth lied about HIS true Idenity. The reason HIS ministry didn't start until a certain time, is because HE waited till he was at the age, and look of Adam in the fall. That is why lucifer, who has seen Adam before the fall, and then in the fall, recognised him as the man who called himself the Son of GOD.
Adam, His Eminence, is the Son of GOD. Jesus His Pre-Eminence, is The GOD and Father of Adam.
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nPeace
Veteran Member
Yes. The Bible does speak for itself. I agree with that, but you and I are not the Bible, so we should be able to speak for ourselves. Isn't that so?
So for example, the Bible says that the Word, is the only begotten son of God, but that does not tell me that you believe it, or that you agree that the Word was brought forth - created - by God.
It tells me what the Bible says. You on the other hand are saying something different, so it does not help in conversation if you are not willing to acknowledge one way or other, whether the Bible is in agreement with what you believe, or not.
Quoting text that has nothing to do with what the person before you says, is equivalent to ignoring the person, what they said, and just rattling off scripture.
Jesus was not aloof. So that would be far from imitating him.
In fact, it would be imitating the Pharisees who looked down on the people and tried to appear holy.
So what am I supposed to do... just ask you something to which you will just ignore and instead preach something irrelevant to what I am asking?
How is that a conversation?
Should I join you, and we just go back and forth scripture to scripture? The scriptures are not divided, so that would make no sense, and get nowhere, other than look comical.
It does not answer questions.
An onlooker would go...
Well. I'll leave you with this...
(John 12:49, 50) 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”
I'm sure you are happy to not have to respond to my comments,
Take care.
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ElishaElijah
Return
I agree with the Scriptures which show and reveal that God is: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.Yes. The Bible does speak for itself. I agree with that, but you and I are not the Bible, so we should be able to speak for ourselves. Isn't that so?
So for example, the Bible says that the Word, is the only begotten son of God, but that does not tell me that you believe it, or that you agree that the Word was brought forth - created - by God.
It tells me what the Bible says. You on the other hand are saying something different, so it does not help in conversation if you are not willing to acknowledge one way or other, whether the Bible is in agreement with what you believe, or not.
Quoting text that has nothing to do with what the person before you says, is equivalent to ignoring the person, what they said, and just rattling off scripture.
Jesus was not aloof. So that would be far from imitating him.
In fact, it would be imitating the Pharisees who looked down on the people and tried to apear holy.
So what am I supposed to do... just ask you something to which you will just ignore and instead preach something irrelevant to what I am asking?
How is that a conversation?
Should I join you, and we just go back and forth scripture to scripture? The scriptures are not divided, so that would make no sense, and get nowhere, other than look comical.
It does not answer questions.
An onlooker would go...
Well. I'll leave you with this...
(John 12:49, 50) 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”
I'm sure you are happy to not have to respond to my comments,
Take care.
The purpose of interpretation is to find out what the Author (God) meant when communicated His Word by God the Holy Spirit to us. Taking Scripture and putting your own meaning is a false interpretation or teaching.
You say I’m similar to Pharisee’s and self righteous as they were. I’m not, I don’t have any righteousness of my own, my righteousness was given to me in exchange for my sinful self by Jesus Christ, God the Son.
You say I’m not like Jesus because I was only sharing Scripture: When someone rejects that Jesus is God who came in the flesh that is from Satan or the anti-Christ. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by Satan, who twisted Scripture, Jesus only gave him Scripture.
By the way, What is your righteousness before God? He is looking for perfection.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Please quote the scripture that says that. Thanks.
Wait a minute!!!
Why would one need to interpret something that speaks for itself, and gives the explanation?
I did not say you are similar to Pharisees... but if you believe the cap fit...
I did not say you are not like Jesus, but since you believe the cap fits...
The saying is true, "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then..."
Were you being aloof? Then yes, that does not imitate Jesus, but imitates the Pharisees.
I don't mind one sharing scripture, but this is not a religious community which share all things in common, and share scriptures.
This is a forum where... In fact, let me allow the forum to speak for itself...
Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Iymus, Jan 5, 2020.
So this is not the place to be just sharing scriptures.
By all means, support what you say with scripture, yes. That is most welcomed here, and very much welcomed by me.
Providing scripture certainly has its place.
My question was not answered though.
However...
You say, "When someone rejects that Jesus is God who came in the flesh that is from Satan or the anti-Christ."
That's what you say. that's what you believe. Now which scripture says that?
Here is an appropriate opportunity to "share" scripture.
Are you implying I am tempting you?
Are you implying that I am twisting scripture, then please say which scripture I twisted.
I only recall referring to the scripture you quoted. Quote 'And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.'
Can you please tell us how saying the Word is begotten by the father, is twisting the scriptures?
My righteousness before God? Is that not a personal matter between myself and God?
Is God looking for perfection?
(Psalm 130:3) . . .If errors were what you watch, O Jah, Then who, O Jehovah, could stand?
Paul acknowledged his imperfection, at Romans 7, and the scriptures say, there is not one man righteous before God, who does not sin. Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.
If you mean perfection in a relative sense - that is, perfect from God's standpoint. Yes, the Bible says we must be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect.
(Matthew 5:48) . . .You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
God declares a person righteous based on their faith backed up by works (Not works of Law).
Galatians 2:15-21 ; James 2:14-26
moorea944
Well-Known Member
So are you saying that this verse is stating that Jesus is God? Read it again. It says, shall be called. This is a future prophecy about the coming Messiah.
And let me guess, what words are you saying that he's God on?... The mighty God? Or Everlasting father?
I'll explain those words....
In Hebrew, it's different. "MIghty" is not in the org text. It's only in certain bibles. "God" in that verse is "EL". EL means power or might. It's refering to God's power. So can you say that Jesus "will be" the power of God? Absolutely. Our Heavenly Father has "given" all power and authority to His son.
Can Jesus be a "everlasting father"? Of course he can. Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!
In this same context the saints will qualify as priests in the Kingdom Age, In the First Kingdom Age the priests had to be the sons of the High Priest (from Aaron down). Therefore the priests (immortal) of the restored Kingdom Age will also have to be the children of the High Priest Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that one has to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom. Well Jesus is the Father for this rebirth, on the basis of his sacrifice (as noted in Isaiah 53:10).
The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.
Abraham is also given the title "Father" as he is the Father of the faithful and those baptized into Christ are constituted his children on the basis of faith (Gal 3:27-29). Abraham will qualify as an "Everlasting Father" as well, as he will inherit everlasting life.
There is no reason why a son can't also be a father. I am both a son and a father. My father had a father. The difference is that Yahweh had no beginning. He has no father, unlike Jesus. I certainly have a father, but when (if) I am born again I will necessarily have a new father. That will be Jesus, who also had a father, but his Father didn't have a father.
Hope this helps
ElishaElijah
Return
It’s false though, Jesus, Yeshua is the Messiah who was to come, the priest in the order of Melchizedek, without beginning or end, eternal God.
ElishaElijah
Return
I’m saying it is one of many verses that speaks of Jesus as God, His titles and ministry. Jesus Christ was worshipped while He walked the earth, given
the name above all names, worshipped in Heaven, only God receives worship.
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:5-11 NKJV
Who is the Creator? Father or Son? Jesus is the “exact” representation of the Father, no created being can be an exact representation of eternal God, only God can be that. You’re missing what God has done and the length He came to redeem us by making atonement for us Himself.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Well, you got half right anyhow....