Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

Trailblazer said:

Do you think you can prove that 1844 is not when Christ returned by using the Bible?

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WonderingWorrier said:

Can I prove 1914 is not when Christ returned by using the bible?

"1914 is key to the existence of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 1914 is said to signify the end of the Gentile Times, commencement of Jesus heavenly rulership and start of the Last Days. Jesus subsequently chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 to be his sole means of salvation before the battle of Armageddon".

"The interpretation goes as follows;

• Cutting down the tree represents the destruction of the Kingdom of Judah by Nebuchadnezzar in 607 B.C.
• The “seven times” constitute 2,520 days, or seven 360 day years
• Each day signifies a year, converting 2,520 days to 2,520 years
• 2,520 years from 607 B.C. ends in 1914 A.D".

1914 - fulfillment of Bible prophecy? - JW.Support

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WonderingWorrier said:

"First of all, let us look at the major alternatives. According to Dan 9:25, the "seventy weeks" begins with a "decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" (Dan 9:25, NIV). What is this "decree"? Most conservative interpreters have identified the decree either as the decree of Cyrus king of Persia in about 538 B.C. (Ezra 1:2-4),[1] or the decree of Artaxerxes concerning Nehemiah's rebuilding (Neh 2:8-9), in 445 or 444 B.C.[2]

Other dates have sometimes been proposed (e.g., 457 B.c.),[3] but I wish at this point to concentrate on the main options".

Hermeneutical Factors In Determining The Beginning Of The Seventy Weeks (Daniel 9:25) by Wern Sheridan Poythress (biblicalstudies.org.uk)

Make 2,300 days into 2,300 years.

Then make it our calendar year 2,300.

Then take a proposed year of the decree 456 to subtract it from the year 2,300.

So you get 1844.

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CG Didymus said:

You're still doing it. And this makes sense to you? The verse says 1290 days from the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination set up? How does Abdul Baha' make the 1290 days/lunar years start with the proclamation of Muhammad?

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It does not need to make sense to me and I am not going to try to figure it out, as I am much too busy. Besides, as I have told you many, many times, what Abdu'l-Baha said about this prophecy does not matter to me because I know what happened in 1844. I know we are in the time of the end and I know the book was unsealed by Baha'u'llah as per Daniel 12.

CG Didymus said:

From your link to SAQ...
Afterward, in verse 11, it is said: “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” 7
8 After three years it was announced. And Bahá’u’lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muḥammad, caused His manifestation to be known. 9You're still doing it. And this makes sense to you? The verse says 1290 days from the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination set up? How does Abdul Baha' make the 1290 days/lunar years start with the proclamation of Muhammad?

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Trailblazer said:

It does not need to make sense to me and I am not going to try to figure it out, as I am much too busy. Besides, as I have told you many, many times, what Abdu'l-Baha said about this prophecy does not matter to me because I know what happened in 1844. I know we are in the time of the end and I know the book was unsealed by Baha'u'llah as per Daniel 12.

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But you keep putting it out there as if it is absolute, crystal clear and so obvious that everybody should see it and say, "Wow, Baha'u'llah came exactly when the Bible said he would." I guess... if the daily sacrifice was taken away and the abomination set up on the day Muhammad proclaimed himself to be a prophet, then sure. Is that what Abdul Baha' is saying?

CG Didymus said:

But you keep putting it out there as if it is absolute, crystal clear and so obvious that everybody should see it and say, "Wow, Baha'u'llah came exactly when the Bible said he would." I guess... if the daily sacrifice was taken away and the abomination set up on the day Muhammad proclaimed himself to be a prophet, then sure. Is that what Abdul Baha' is saying?

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No, I am not putting it out as if it is absolute, crystal clear and so obvious that everybody should see it and say, "Wow, Baha'u'llah came exactly when the Bible said he would." You are just thinking that is what I am thinking, so apparently you are projecting your own thoughts onto me (that must be what TB is thinking, because she seems so sure of the prophecy), but the thing is I never have and never will have any expectations of other people and how they view the evidence for Baha'u'llah, including this prophecy. I just put it out there as "what I consider evidence" but whatever people do with it is entirely up to them.

I do not really know what Abdu'l-Baha is saying, you'd have to ask one of the other Baha'is, because I never tried to figure it out. The whole thing is just too complicated for me, all I know is what happened in 1844 regardless of how that was calculated.

Trailblazer said:

I believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a false prophet, and he was certainly not the truthful Successor of Muhammad who came in the later days to reform Islam. It was the Bab who came to reform Islam.

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How exactly did the Bab reform Islam?

Was he certainly the Mahdi which means "Guided one"?


As it says in the Quran:

Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best meaning in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding. 39:18

Trailblazer said:

The whole thing is just too complicated for me

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Too complicated?

CG Didymus said:

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

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Hmmm? Let's see... When was the daily sacrifice taken away and the abomination set up? When ever that was what happened 2300 days or years later? It tells you when to start counting. And I don't see how it has anything to do with the year that Muhammad proclaimed himself. But you know who should know why it should start then? The Baha'is.

WonderingWorrier said:

How exactly did the Bab reform Islam?

Was he certainly the Mahdi which means "Guided one"?

As it says in the Quran:

Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best meaning in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding. 39:18

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If you want to understand how the Bab reformed Islam, I highly suggest you watch the movie entitled "The Gate."

The Official Trailer below explains it in a nutshell but the Full Movie below goes into great detail about the Bab and His life and mission and how that led into the mission of Baha'u'llah, culminating in the Baha'i Faith.

CG Didymus said:

Too complicated?

Hmmm? Let's see... When was the daily sacrifice taken away and the abomination set up? When ever that was what happened 2300 days or years later? It tells you when to start counting. And I don't see how it has anything to do with the year that proclaimed himself. But you know who should know why it should start then? The Baha'is.

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I think you asked me similar questions, but you didn't reply back.

InvestigateTruth said:

I can offer my thoughts.


"the daily sacrifice is abolished" =

Daily Sacrifice is an allusion to Jesus and His Revelation, and Rites that was established through the Revelation of Jesus.
As Jesus was sacrificed, metaphorically, this was the daily Sacrifice.

When Muhammad came, He brought a new Revelation which was to replace Laws of Gospel. In another words, By revelation of Quran, the previous Rites in Christianity was abolished. This is why "abolishing the daily sacrifice" means, Proclamation of Muhammad through which the previously established Rites was to be abolished.

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Trailblazer said:

If you want to understand how the Bab reformed Islam, I highly suggest you watch the movie entitled "The Gate."

The Official Trailer below explains it in a nutshell but the Full Movie below goes into great detail about the Bab and His life and mission and how that led into the mission of Baha'u'llah, culminating in the Baha'i Faith.

Click to expand...

Ok. I have now watched them. Thank you.

Changing the law can create confusion and division.
While confirming the law can create understanding and unity.




"This elaboration of the law will be enacted by the Universal House of Justice under the authority conferred upon it by Bahá’u’lláh Himself. In one of His Tablets ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá elucidates this principle:

Those matters of major importance which constitute the foundation of the Law of God are explicitly recorded in the Text, but subsidiary laws are left to the House of Justice. The wisdom of this is that the times never remain the same, for change is a necessary quality and an essential attribute of this world, and of time and place. Therefore the House of Justice will take action accordingly…".

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library (bahai.org)




Shoghi Effendi feels that the unity of the Bahá’í Revelation as one complete whole embracing the Faith of the Báb should be emphasized… The Faith of the Báb should not be divorced from that of Bahá’u’lláh. Though the teachings of the Bayán have been abrogated and superseded by the laws of the Aqdas, yet due to the fact that the Báb considered Himself as the Forerunner of Bahá’u’lláh, we would regard His Dispensation together with that of Bahá’u’lláh as forming one entity, the former being introductory to the advent of the latter.

The Báb states that His laws are provisional and depend upon the acceptance of the future Manifestation. This is why in the Book of Aqdas Bahá’u’lláh sanctions some of the laws found in the Bayán, modifies others and sets aside many.

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library (bahai.org)



The true messengers are confirmers of the law.

As it says in the Quran:

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. 5:46

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but His plan is to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; 5:48




And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if it had been something they did not know! 2:101

The Mahdi is a man, who will confirm the law of all the true messengers of the one true religion (which would also reveal all the false ones).

"The dominion (authority) of the Mahdi is one of the proofs that God has created all things; these are so numerous that his [the Mahdi's] proofs will overcome (will be influential, will be dominant) everyone and nobody will have any counter-proposition against him".

"His [the Mahdi's] aim is to establish a moral system from which all superstitious faiths have been eliminated. In the same way that students enter Islam, so unbelievers will come to believe".

Mahdi - Wikipedia

CG Didymus said:

From your link to SAQ...

Afterward, in verse 11, it is said: “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” 7
8 After three years it was announced. And Bahá’u’lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muḥammad, caused His manifestation to be known. 9​

You're still doing it. And this makes sense to you? The verse says 1290 days from the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination set up? How does Abdul Baha' make the 1290 days/lunar years start with the proclamation of Muhammad?

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it is not a preaching only a lesson in how to find the path of prophecy
not at all failed as other lies even Jesus prophesied Muhammad but it was worth it for the whole book to clean several times and not take the verses in their order as they are written because it is a farce full of symbol and what God forbids witchcraft and false miracles
and Jesus stood on the sea (and Jesus stood on the nations)
or Jesus crossed the sea (Jesus crossed the nations)
as for Jesus and Muhammad Jesus gave an approximate date in the Gospel that it is not worth it to study it is purely your fault and god as well as the Jew and other religions gave time many thousands of years and that people did not study his word is his error? he gave it to him to study if you understand how it works you get the hidden key to the prophecy where the expression mahda came from and what else was supposed to come from
They are right, however, except that it is the twelve of the imman. It is a complete lie.
because it is symbolic and they did not understand everything well

there is no need to explain Christians about others, other religions are always in check when they convince them that they are nothing but hypocrites, literally all religions
but if it's not worth people to study, how do you think you can stand it? god said he gave you letters to think about them so that they would have no excuse and they were all unjust only righteous is god to convince them all that they were liars
no need to supply an unnamed apocrif
and the head of the bottom regretted that it had destroyed all the living on earth
who is the head of the bottom? simply the clues are in the whole body if you don't mind and say that they are liars, will you be condemned in your own file?
and said Isaiah
Isaiah 8:16 "Bind the testimony, and seal the law among my disciples."
so be not among the hypocrites who say that they know everything, will you not see how the Lord will come to you and say he will leave you with me, I do not know you?
Isaiah 9:14 The old man and the noble are the head, and the prophet teaching the deception is the tail.
and here you see the meaning of an old man and a noble man and a false prophet
so false prophecies from false prophets fall apart at that time and God intervened to convict them all of her own scriptures
they were plotting themselves, tangled in them without any idea
therefore, whoever wants to understand the meaning of Iman Mahda and Jesus Muhammad and other religions, do not even try to interpret them without reading all the religions because your interpretations are false because some words are symbolic
like the pharaoh of the waters, they were divided and put on his face (that is, they are spoken of explicitly of the nations or of man)
so that your own words may not convince you of a lie

Trailblazer said:

No, I do not think that is right. I believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a false prophet, and he was certainly not the truthful Successor of Muhammad who came in the later days to reform Islam. It was the Bab who came to reform Islam.

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in essence, all false prophets except the last one opens the prophecy of understanding this task gave him god to find the truth seekers of truth blessed what to say about today's people simply maybe that they are not looking for the truth, they will read it once and what they like it they repeat over and over again and they take away the nasty ones Christians accuse Yahweh of being Satan or that it is even a bad god or evil About other religions this principle is basically the same except for the initiates do not know the truth and they think how exceptional they are while they are the biggest pigs to be forever in hell do not love to love that you are chosen because you do not know the truth but that you do not show it will condemn you then the letter did you know the truth and didn't tell her God asked why did you knowingly lied about God? and he answered here only a hypocrite who thought only of himself and the letter says, and I have against you that you give one interpretation and the other you do not

Trailblazer said:

If you want to understand how the Bab reformed Islam, I highly suggest you watch the movie entitled "The Gate."

The Official Trailer below explains it in a nutshell but the Full Movie below goes into great detail about the Bab and His life and mission and how that led into the mission of Baha'u'llah, culminating in the Baha'i Faith.

Click to expand...

if it were a real mahdi there would rule the entire planet or at least be known
the bahai did none of this, let alone the prophecy he said of himself
the prince is such that all religions except the false have the same person to wait for
and assure you when it appears there will not be the slightest reason to refuse it as all the writings agree
so that the one whom Abraham and Enoch called will come
Head of the Day
nobility of the day also according to Isaiah so until then you can say absolutely what you want but when the prophecy appears close the kisses and you will say that you are not a prophet because false prophets will fall and die one by one
and they say I'm not a priest / prophet here, just a supervisor who works
then the prayers will fall apart and the truth of the prophecy will make you so afraid, and if not, it will surely force the wounds and brutal wars of the people
and the head of the bottom (ancient bottom of the daniel)
and people will say
Revelation 15: 4 Who would not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name, for thou art only holy? all nations shall come and bow down before thee; for thy righteous judgments are made manifest.
you have a choice devastation of the whole planet the third of the water has disappeared (a third of people of course thought) do not be naive that Jesus is a god he is a prophet and those who claim to return and are he are all liars in one

WhoIsBeast 750 said:

if it were a real mahdi there would rule the entire planet or at least be known
the bahai did none of this, let alone the prophecy he said of himself

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There is no logical reason why a real Mahdi would rule the entire planet or be known by everyone in the first two centuries.

You cannot blame the Bab or Baha'u'llah because most people do not know about the Baha'i Faith, or because those who do know have rejected the Bab or Baha'u'llah. Below are the logical reasons why the Baha'i Faith is still small.

1. Many people have never heard of the Baha’i Faith, so they do not know there is something to look for. It is the responsibility of the Baha’is to get the message out, so if that is not happening, the Baha’is are to blame. However, there are so few Baha’is and they are busy building the New World Order, and there is only so much time, so they can only do so much.

2. But even after people know about the Baha’i Faith, most people are not even willing to look the evidence in order to determine if it is true or not.

3. Even if they are willing to look at the evidence, there is a lot of prejudice before even getting out the door to look at the evidence.

4. 84% of people in the world already have a religion and they are happy with their religion so they have no interest in a “new religion.”

5. The rest of the world’s population is agnostics or atheists or believers who are prejudiced against all religion.

6. Agnostics or atheists and atheists and believers who have no religion either do not believe that God communicates via Messengers or they find fault with the Messenger, Baha’u’llah.

7. Baha’u’llah brought new teachings and laws that are very different from the older religions so many people are suspicious of those teachings and/or don’t like the laws because some laws require them to give things up that they like doing..

WhoIsBeast 750 said:

the prince is such that all religions except the false have the same person to wait for and assure you when it appears there will not be the slightest reason to refuse it as all the writings agree so that the one whom Abraham and Enoch called will come

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The reason is called EGO and it is not a slight reason, it is the primary reason all the Messengers have been rejected...

All the true religions wait for the Promised Messiah but they have all rejected Him because He is not what they want. It is all about what they want, what they believe will happen, according to their false expectations of what the Messiah will be like, and so they have rejected the Baha'u'llah because He was not what they wanted.

Trailblazer said:

There is no logical reason why a real Mahdi would rule the entire planet or be known by everyone in the first two centuries.

You cannot blame the Bab or Baha'u'llah because most people do not know about the Baha'i Faith, or because those who do know have rejected the Bab or Baha'u'llah. Below are the logical reasons why the Baha'i Faith is still small.

1. Many people have never heard of the Baha’i Faith, so they do not know there is something to look for. It is the responsibility of the Baha’is to get the message out, so if that is not happening, the Baha’is are to blame. However, there are so few Baha’is and they are busy building the New World Order, and there is only so much time, so they can only do so much.

2. But even after people know about the Baha’i Faith, most people are not even willing to look the evidence in order to determine if it is true or not.

3. Even if they are willing to look at the evidence, there is a lot of prejudice before even getting out the door to look at the evidence.

4. 84% of people in the world already have a religion and they are happy with their religion so they have no interest in a “new religion.”

5. The rest of the world’s population is agnostics or atheists or believers who are prejudiced against all religion.

6. Agnostics or atheists and atheists and believers who have no religion either do not believe that God communicates via Messengers or they find fault with the Messenger, Baha’u’llah.

7. Baha’u’llah brought new teachings and laws that are very different from the older religions so many people are suspicious of those teachings and/or don’t like the laws because some laws require them to give things up that they like doing..

The reason is called EGO and it is not a slight reason, it is the primary reason all the Messengers have been rejected...

All the true religions wait for the Promised Messiah but they have all rejected Him because He is not what they want. It is all about what they want, what they believe will happen, according to their false expectations of what the Messiah will be like, and so they have rejected the Baha'u'llah because He was not what they wanted.

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All the religions that are marked in the Qur'an have enormous popularity, why do you think you don't know it? Jews, I think you scattered the god
but he knows if you have no evidence of your prophets and signs that are being written, and at this time they happen one after the other, if the prophet came to his eyes you would tell him that we would rebuke him and not lie that not because we all know it.


what you call the Ego is only the Ego of those who teach their own things is very beautiful that they have worked with symbolism, but for God's sake it is a waste that he did not approve of
are you saying that all that is good is good religion? well and now where you have the evidence or the signs they are written about, your faith will fall apart as you prove it
well you will say that he said it and I can create such a book too, right? but was it written in religion by an exact name in several religions?
bahai or a similar title is not there or do you want to tell me I'm lying? if i lie prove the opposite to me but the name is not it and does this verse refer to bahai? and where do you have proof that it refers to him?
it is just like with Mary and a bad translation from a young woman suddenly became the one who gave birth without a man?
the truth is that jesus was the son of joseph and the spirit speaks the koran not about the body is beautiful as they describe it but they are absolutely liars and the word became flesh of course is spoken of in this principle here you and was) through the word
Exactly as Jesus says to the hypocrites do you know the face of the sky but do not recognize the sign? what is the sign of the sign of heaven not about? and said no sign was given except the prophet Jonah right?
sad that religions have the same thing but do not understand it
and Joseph (Joseph, of course, not his name but what it means) saw how eleven stars bowed to him, and he is the twelfth? where do you think the sign from the book of revelation came from and the same verse is in the quran?
Revelation 12: 1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Revelation 12: 2 And the woman was with child, and cried in pain, because her hour was come.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. It will crush your head, and you will crush his heel. "
Genesis 3:16 16 And he said unto the woman, I will greatly multiply thy affliction and sorrow of pregnancy;
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; they shall be a sign of times, and of days, and of years.
this last verse it explains not everything is literally this particular sign happened in 2017 such a sign with the bahai could only seem to have it
and if this one comes and confirms everything you tell him face to face?
and as for the serpent it is a parable
just like that hul snake and moses without discussion right? and created the wisest of beasts, and that you ascribe to Satan only your stupidity
satan is actually everything that people don't like here will do something and say satan led me or satan did it themselves with free will to blame others when they're not there it's easy to do it when it's not a literal person but an expression
slanderer (and your father is a slanderer from the beginning he's a liar and a murderer) who killed his brother? and here are the parallels of the apocrif
one good one bad
Creation did not become a literal explanation of the woman mate described in Genesis as to what it means
as
good woman (good church)
and a bad woman and a whore (a church that climbs after foreign gods)
if you take it literally you are a naive mate with the future written there and you still don't understand it

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

I understand the real Imam Mahdi/the Promised Messiah is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.
I ,for one, have checked about Bab and Bahaullah and for that I have read Kitab-i-Iqan but don't find them the real one. For others they could work as alternative, but they are untrue, I understand. Right friends, please?

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

I understand the real Imam Mahdi/the Promised Messiah is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.
I ,for one, have checked about Bab and Bahaullah and for that I have read Kitab-i-Iqan but don't find them the real one. For others they could work as alternative, but they are untrue, I understand. Right friends, please?

Regards

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Good morning paarsurrey, I hope all is well and happy.

You have not explained why Mirza Ghulam Ahmad changed his core teachings over the years.

It has also been shown that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was taught about the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah and was left many books which he studied and even quoted and said he has mastered.

He was also shown and taught the Faith by very knowledgeable Baha'i.

Those teachings then became the teachings you now love in your heart and soul.

As such, to say they are untrue, when Mirza Ghulam Ahmad found so much Truth in those writings, that He then changed his teachings to reflect them, well, you can see the quandary is plain and it needs to be considered deeply.

Regards Tony

CG Didymus said:

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”

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Okay, that is from Daniel 12, but in Daniel 8 it says,
What is the daily sacrifice and the rebellion that causes desolation alluding to? Because in this prophecy Baha'is start it with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 456BC, then they add the 2300 years to it to get to 1844.

So why change the daily sacrifice in Daniel 12 to something different then what you did in Daniel 8?

InvestigateTruth said:

"the daily sacrifice is abolished" =

Daily Sacrifice is an allusion to Jesus and His Revelation, and Rites that was established through the Revelation of Jesus.
As Jesus was sacrificed, metaphorically, this was the daily Sacrifice.

When Muhammad came, He brought a new Revelation which was to replace Laws of Gospel. In another words, By revelation of Quran, the previous Rites in Christianity was abolished. This is why "abolishing the daily sacrifice" means, Proclamation of Muhammad through which the previously established Rites was to be abolished.

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Okay, what were the "gospel laws" that got replaced and what were the Christian "Rites" that got abolished? Then, you make the daily sacrifice an "allusion" to the revelation of Jesus, but what about the abomination makes desolation being set up?

Then we have the 1335 days... To this Baha'is say...
Why start this one at yet another starting point, the Hegira. And, are now in solar years? Later in that same article it says...
So to make sure you know what I'm asking, the daily sacrifice and abomination are mentioned as the starting point to all these prophecies, the 2300 days, the 1290 days and the 1335 days. So why start all three at different times? If the "daily sacrifice" is an allusion to Jesus in one, why not the other two? Thanks IT

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Good morning paarsurrey, I hope all is well and happy.

You have not explained why Mirza Ghulam Ahmad changed his core teachings over the years.

It has also been shown that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was taught about the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah and was left many books which he studied and even quoted and said he has mastered.

He was also shown and taught the Faith by very knowledgeable Baha'i.

Those teachings then became the teachings you now love in your heart and soul.

As such, to say they are untrue, when Mirza Ghulam Ahmad found so much Truth in those writings, that He then changed his teachings to reflect them, well, you can see the quandary is plain and it needs to be considered deeply.

Regards Tony

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I did not know all that about him, thanks for sharing that information.
Unfortunately for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the following passage from Baha'u'llah seems to apply to him.

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

This is really upsetting to me that he has misled so many people, but people are going to believe whatever they want to believe, for their own reasons.

Trailblazer said:

I did not know all that about him, thanks for sharing that information.
Unfortunately for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the following passage from Baha'u'llah seems to apply to him.

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

This is really upsetting to me that he has misled so many people, but people are going to believe whatever they want to believe, for their own reasons.

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"Gleaning" is a collection from the writings of Bahaullah done by Shoghí Effendí, i understand.
Please quote the page from the original book written by of Bahaullah from which these passages have been taken. Right, please?

Regards

Trailblazer said:

I did not know all that about him, thanks for sharing that information.
Unfortunately for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the following passage from Baha'u'llah seems to apply to him.

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

This is really upsetting to me that he has misled so many people, but people are going to believe whatever they want to believe, for their own reasons.

Click to expand...

I have been considering this over the last few years and I am yet to fully grasp the contrasts that appear in this world because of our choices.

I have been thinking about the Covernant brought by the Mahdi (the Bab then Baha'u'llah) and how is was tested in the fire of rebellion and beat into shape.

What is a Covenant that has never been tested? The Covernant of Baha'u'llah was assailed from every side, above and below and everywhere in between, yet remained unbroken.

It appears for the good to shine, there must always be the not so good, it is part of the process we learn by.

God knows what those Souls would do in this life and has laid the plan of the future of humanity around all of our choices.

All this is teaching us how to Love unconditionally, so as a Baha'i, I see that is my challenge, how do I reconcile all this and be as Abdul'baha was, a true 'Servant of Baha'.

All the best Susan, much Love from us, Regards Tony