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Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The answer to that is in two posts just above this one Paarsurrey - Open the Links, click on the spoiler for Bab and Baha'u'llah and you will find what Titles are is applicable to both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?


Regards Tony
Click to expand...

Trailblazer said:
Sorry, I really don't know exactly what the Bab claimed, and I already told you what Baha'u'llah claimed.
I do not believe that the claims are as important as the evidence that supports their claims.
Click to expand...

Susan. Read those two links in my quoted post and you will know what the claims cover, but is not limited to those lists.

The claim is that every prophecy, from all Holy Books, given about this age, are reference to the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
paarsurrey said: ↑
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?


Kindly do it please for us. Right friend, please?

Regards
Click to expand...

I have in the posts above that contain the two spoiler links of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Please read to see the answer. Paarsurrey this is about the 3rd time you have asked the same thing.

Regards Tony
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
paarsurrey said: ↑
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Click to expand...
I think that Tony covered that in this post:

#188 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Today at 1:40 PM
 
W

WhoIsBeast 750

Member
who is the mahdi and where does it come from? which one of you was trying to understand?
god said he gave you a scripture and your ignorance will not excuse you he gave you a scripture to think about it not just read and constantly recite but think about it
so as for the name mahdi (his name can be pronounced in many ways in one language it is (Zion) in another (s) ion in another it is John) basically his name is written that he corrects the font as the prophets say
Mahdi is an Islamic concept so don't try my writing to say it's preaching or something else
mahdi is, according to Hadit, a prophet who fixes books (fixes or also seals)
what is unsealing? they describe it as decoding a scroll
basically all religions agree
and now we go to explain how it is possible that it is Zion is the name and the mountain is known as well as the parable of Jesus (bread and other food is the word) the nations are water) and the mountain is religion or something in that sense if you want to understand the interpretations are in all books
as well as that Christian misunderstanding
,
Isaiah 9:13 Therefore the LORD cut off from Israel head and tail, and the palm branch, and the bullock, in one day.
Isaiah 9:14 The old man and the noble are the head, and the prophet teaching the deception is the tail.
Job 40, 17 The tail is straight like a cedar, and the sinews of its thighs are loosed
so what is it about in the job (for example, a false prophet like a cedar (I know another cedar)) the tendons of his thighs are intertwined
Revelation 12: 4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman to devour her child as soon as she was born.
this can be said something in this sense
a false prophet swept a third of the church from heaven and threw them to the ground (and the dragon) a dragon of other significance) stood before the church to devour her child as soon as she was born
so try to understand and comprehend
this sign happened three years back
Revelation 12: 1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
literally (Joseph's dream (Qur'an and Judaism) do we remember the dream of the stars?
So those who want to know the truth recommend studying all the religions there are clues in the interpretation
the third is deceived by a false prophet or will be later, and most importantly be careful not to show that you are fighting against God in the end (protect God from that day so that it never happens)
and if its name is not John or Ion or Sion (s) ion
it's not mahdi and especially its name is written entirely in all the scrolls so they won't give you a choice either in it or not
will be described there in many ways
1 his name will be described there even part of life
2 his illness is nice that it is presented as an abyss of the esophagus and that it is hell only for him unless
3 His name will be the same as his father's (his mother's name will be Mary)
4 will be from Europe the name of the country in which he was born and in which he will go are written there
5 most of what is written about him is not understood
6 the god confirms that he sent him with the signs described in heaven so that she could not be questioned in any way
7 most people will not believe and it is also written there man can punish the earth whenever he wants to disaster with the permission of God
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
WhoIsBeast 750 said:
and if its name is not John or Ion or Sion (s) ion
it's not mahdi and especially its name is written entirely in all the scrolls so they won't give you a choice either in it or not
will be described there in many ways
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, it will be described in many ways, and the name is Glory of the Lord.
His name is written entirely in all the scrolls but everyone has a choice whether to see it or not because we all have free will.

“The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.” (Isaiah 35:1).

“It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2).

“And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.” (Isaiah 35:10).

“And the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of God hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 40:5).
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
View attachment 46372

@paarsurrey

This is in Persian Bayan, another place where the Bab said He is the Promised Mahdi. The Persian Bayan is available online. This is from Wahid 9, Bab 3, page 311.

This is the Bayan:
http://www.bayanic.com/lib/typed/sacred/Point/Persian-Bayan/PersianBayan.pdf

And this is the translation of the section:


"...in the Revelation of the Point of the Bayán, if all should be assured that this is that same Promised Mihdí whom the Apostle of God foretold, not one of the believers in the Qur’án would turn aside from the sayings of the Apostle of God."

Selections from the Writings of the Báb | Bahá’í Reference Library
Click to expand...
Is the above page of Bayan from a Bahaism site, please?

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Vinayaka said:
Not all. Hinduism gives freedom for people to think on their own. It's not some block of people all thinking exactly the same way. That's a beauty of Hinduism that other faiths don't have so much of. So you'd have to go around and ask each person what they truly believed.

Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?
Click to expand...
There is no likeness/same way between Ahmadiyya and Bahaism. Bahaism is a new Religion while Ahmadiyya and Claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are as a Successor of Muhammad and within Islam and within the teaching of Quran, please?

That said, Kalki Avatar is the Second Coming of Krishna so there is no difference in them.
Yes, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did claim being Second Coming of Krisha:

"Finally, let it be clear that my advent in the present age is not for the reformation of the Muslims alone, but I have come to reform the people of all the three religions: Muslims, Christians and Hindus. Just as God has appointed me the Promised Messiah for the Muslims and Christians, so am I the Avatar for the Hindus. For the past twenty years or so, I have been proclaiming that just as I have appeared in the spirit of the Messiah son of Mary (as( for the purpose of removing sins which have filled the earth, so have I come as Raja Krishna—one of the greatest Avatars of the Hindu faith. In other words, I am the same person by virtue of spiritual reality. This is no fancy or speculation on my part. The God of heaven and earth has revealed to me, not once but a number of times, that for the Hindus I am Krishna and for the Muslims and Christians I am the Promised Messiah. I know that the ignorant Muslims, on hearing this, will immediately say that by assuming the name of a kafir, I have openly accepted disbelief. But this revelation is from God and I have no choice but to proclaim it. Today it is for the first time that I am announcing it before such a large gathering, for those who are from God are never afraid of the reproaches of faultfinders. Let it be clear that Raja Krishna, according to what has been revealed to me, was such a truly great man that it is hard to find his like among the Rishis and Avatars of the Hindus. He was an Avatar—i.e., Prophet—of his time upon whom the Holy Spirit would descend from God. He was from God, victorious and prosperous. He cleansed the land of the Aryas from sin and was in fact the Prophet of his age whose teaching was later corrupted in numerous ways. He was full of love for God, a friend of virtue and an enemy of evil. It was God’s promise that, in the latter days, He would send someone, i.e., an Avatar, in his image. Hence this promise has been fulfilled with my coming. Among other revelations regarding myself, I also received this revelation: 31* Hence, I love Krishna because I have come in his image. Another resemblance between the two of us is that the same qualities that have been attributed to Krishna (for instance, his being the destroyer of sin, the consoler, and the nourisher of the poor) are also the qualities of the Promised Messiah. From the spiritual point of view, therefore, Krishna and Promised Messiah are one and the same; it is only the regional terminology that is different."
Page 30-40
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/LectureSialkot.pdf
*31 O’ Krishna, slayer of swine and protector of cows, thy praise is recorded in the Gita. [Publishers]

Regards
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
I know that "Bayan" is supposed to be written by Bab but I want to know, is the page quoted by one from a Bahaism site, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
I dont know. There is only one Book called Bayan. It's like there is only one book called the Quran. It is irrelevant if it is on a Bahai site, Muslim site, or Christian site. It is one and the same book.
If you are in doubt find the Bayan from another Site, or even look for manuscripts.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
I dont know. There is only one Book called Bayan. It's like there is only one book called the Quran. It is irrelevant if it is on a Bahai site, Muslim site, or Christian site. It is one and the same book.
If you are in doubt find the Bayan from another Site, or even look for manuscripts.
Click to expand...
It was one who quoted/referred to it and it has so many mistakes even in one page, so it is not a trustworthy source.
I didn't ask one that I want to read Kitab-ul-Bayan.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
#141 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 11:36 PM

Yes, you are correct, and Baha'u'llah also wrote that Muhammad claimed to be the return of all the Prophets of the past:

“Furthermore, it is evident to thee that the Bearers of the trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Bearers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the Celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they therefore are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness. These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attribute, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers!” 26 For they one and all summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the Unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of Prophethood, and honoured with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur’án, revealed: “I am all the Prophets.” Likewise, He saith: “I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.” Similar statements have been made by ‘Alí. Sayings such as this, which indicate the essential unity of those Exponents of Oneness, have also emanated from the Channels of God’s immortal utterance, and the Treasuries of the gems of divine knowledge, and have been recorded in the scriptures. These Countenances are the recipients of the Divine Command, and the day-springs of His Revelation. This Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the exigencies of number. Thus He saith: “Our Cause is but one.” 27 Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents thereof also must needs be one and the same. Likewise, the Imáms of the Muhammadan Faith, those lamps of certitude, have said: “Muhammad is our first, Muhammad our last, Muhammad our all.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp, 152-153
Click to expand...
" Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur’án, revealed: “I am all the Prophets.” Likewise, He saith: “I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.”

I understand that there is nothing as such about Muhammad in Quran.
Kindly quote from Quran in this connection, please. Right, please?

Regards
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
" Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur’án, revealed: “I am all the Prophets.” Likewise, He saith: “I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.”

I understand that there is nothing as such about Muhammad in Quran.
Kindly quote from Quran in this connection, please. Right, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
As I said before, I am not familiar with the Qur'an, so maybe one of my Baha'i friends can help me out.
Please note that Baha'u'llah did nit say it was in the Qur'an. ;)
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
As I said before, I am not familiar with the Qur'an, so maybe one of my Baha'i friends can help me out.
Please note that Baha'u'llah did nit say it was in the Qur'an. ;)
Click to expand...
One mentioned in one's earlier post a saying something like that:
Mahdi is none other than the Messiah.
Right friend, please?
Kindly give one's post number, please.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Sorry, I do not remember that.
Regarding the stations and titles of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the relevant posts are #188 and #189.
Click to expand...
Sorry, it was written by friend @InvestigateTruth in his post #155:

Quote "The Bab wrote that He is the Qaim, and the Mahdi. When the Bab was martyred, Bahaullah said , He is the reappearance of the Bab, meaning after the Bab, Bahaullah was the Mahdi.
In Hadithes it is written that "No Mahdi except Christ". In my view, this is certainly an authentic Hadith. Thus, Bahaullah was both the Mahdi and Christ." Unquote

So Bab was both Mahdi and Christ/Messiah/Jesus/Isa,
and Bahaullah was also both Mahdi and Christ/Messiah/Jesus/Isa, as per Bahaism people, please. Is it so, please?
Right, please?

Regards

 
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