Does it really matter what people believe?

Saint Frankenstein · Nov 16, 2020

syo said:
Monotheism suffocates me. I accept Jesus and the Christian God, BUT I will never abandon Zeus or Shiva. If people hate me because of my polytheism, what should I do???

Tell them to kiss your ***. If you live in a country where there is religious freedom, of course. If not, protect yourself.

syo · Nov 16, 2020

Saint Frankenstein said:
Tell them to kiss your ***. If you live in a country where there is religious freedom, of course. If not, protect yourself.

There is no religious freedom in my country. And the media with the government monitor Facebook and instagram and YouTube accounts. They only accept that foreign tourists may not be Christian.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Aupmanyav said:
Don't blame me, look at your first post. You are a proselytizer. You cannot write a post without quoting from Bahaollah. And you complain when we reply.

Look at it indeed. I concluded with two very short quotes from Baha'u'llah that represent what I believe about the destiny of a believer in the afterlife because I needed those in order to make my point. I cut off all of the rest of what Baha'u'llah said about the afterlife in those long Tablets.

Again, this thread was not intended to be about Baha'u'llah, so anyone who makes it about Him that is on them, not on me. I have no interest in convincing anyone to believe in Baha'u'llah as we all have free will to make our own choices since that is the way God set it up.

I go by what Baha'u'llah concluded in one of His longer Tablets:

“For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.” Gleanings, p. 143

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Aupmanyav said:
Just like Bahaollah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who was born a few years later than Bahaollah, claimed that he was the Mahdi sent by Allah.

It is immaterial if I accept Mirza Sahib or not, I am an atheist, I do not accept even the existence of God, what to talk to messengers, manifestations or mahdis. But millions of people do accept him as the Mahdi.

He could claim anything he wanted to claim because he had free will, and people can believe him because they also have free will. People will choose to believe what they believe for many reasons. I chose my beliefs according to the evidence that supports them.

70 million people in the United States "believe" in President Trump, so what does that prove?

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Meerkat said:
It matters when their beliefs lead them to harm others. For that reason some religious and political beliefs are quite dangerous. Just look around.

That is a very good point. My husband made that exact point last night when I told him about my thread.
Humanity is all connected so what people believe can affect other people, not only themselves.

Windwalker · Nov 16, 2020

thomas t said:
God's spirit is a gentleman, as I see it: he communicates and waits for response. This is at least my impression.
It's like him inviting people to a party. If they don't go to that place, they aren't there.

I prefer not to think of God, or Spirit, in terms of masculine or feminine. But yes, the Spirit of God does not ever force itself upon us. Spirit, or God, invites. It's a matter of simply choosing to accept the Divine, or run from it.

thomas t said:
for me, salvation is like a sandwich. If you don't take it, you don't have it. Even if it's offered to you and you are in every "true" condition to really eat it.

The way I might choose to put that is more like it's something you already have, but don't realize it. By not accepting that, you live life without it. And suffering results. That is a true for Christians as it is for non-Christians. It's true for all of humanity.

thomas t said:
the way I understood your previous post, it wasn't about asking for forgiveness of sins to begin with.
It was about conceptualizing God, the sincerity of the heart, the desire of the soul and the commitment to going on a path.

To know God's Spirit, to receive God's Spirit, is to receive God's forgiveness. God is unconditional Love. When we accept that, we will know forgiveness. We forgive others, because we know forgiveness in ourselves, from that Divine Light which brings that which is hidden into the Light. We face ourselves, and surrender to that Divine Love. That is knowing forgiveness. That is the key to loving others as yourself, as Jesus taught was the highest commandment. It requires knowing God's Love to you, which is forgiveness.

Saint Frankenstein · Nov 16, 2020

syo said:
There is no religious freedom in my country. And the media with the government monitor Facebook and instagram and YouTube accounts. They only accept that foreign tourists may not be Christian.

You're in Greece, right? I didn't realize it was that bad. I know that the Greek government and Orthodox Church are in bed with each other, but that's sad. I thought that Pagans were a recognized religious minority there now?

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Audie said:
" Live a good life".

By whose reckoning?

I said "lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught" but that was very general.

Audie said:
You figure it does not matter what people believe?

You care to define the scope of that?

No, I did not say it does not matter. I asked whether other people think it matters:

Does it really matter what people believe?

I wonder about this a lot. If people lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught, does it really matter if they believe in Jesus or in God?

I had my own ideas about why it matters but I was thinking about the individual more than about society.
Thinking about society as a whole, I would say that it matters very much what people believe.

Audie said:
Do you need specific examples of what seemed to the person a good life that more objectively may
not have been so groovy for others?

I do not think that "a good life" has anything to do with what feels good or what is groovy.

Audie said:
People have a great tendency to act on their beliefs.
Actions affect others.

In the USA, a big percent of the population harbors profoundly regressive, anti intellectual,
superstitious beliefs.

I fully agree, and that is a good example of how individuals can affect a whole society.

When you have a country like the United States wherein about 40% of its people believe that Jesus is going to return and magically fix everything that is wrong in this world, any logical person cannot fail to see how that would affect their behavior. I mean why even bother to try to address the world's problems, if Jesus is coming and He will fix them for us?

Jesus Christ’s Return to Earth

"By the year 2050, 41% of Americans believe that Jesus Christ definitely (23%) or probably (18%) will have returned to earth."

"One-in-five religiously unaffiliated Americans also see Christ returning during the next four decades."

All I can say is, God help us all. I consider this the most dangerous belief that people hold.

Not only that, it is a belief predicted on nothing, since Jesus never said He would return to earth and in fact He said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

Jesus never promised to return to earth, never. It is not in the NT, period. Why then do so many Christians believe that Jesus is going to return to earth?

Why do 20% of religiously unaffiliated Americans believe that Jesus will return during the next four decades? Think about it.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Heyo said:
Beliefs shouldn't matter and I try to be impartial but when people are obviously or even aggressively religious my Spidey senses tingle.

I do not think that beliefs matter to the individual that much but I do think beliefs matter to society, as I just told Audie:
#48 Trailblazer, 11 minutes ago

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Windwalker said:
Obviously, I think you're being sarcastic, as I know you don't believe any of that, unless you've had some sort of recent conversion which has overtaken your prior beliefs. Certainly, it's nothing I believe. It's as untrue for Baha'is to say that, as it is for Christians to say that only their teachings can bring you to God. Cleary, that is not true.

Aupmanyav said:
How you connect with divine is very important. Allah has sent his most recent instructions through Bahaollah, the Iranian preacher. You cannot connect to divine without them. What all other religions say is corrupted.

Just to let you know, that is not a Baha'i belief, it is a misrepresentation of Baha'i beliefs by one person.
Clearly it is not true. How people connect to God is an individual thing, and I believe that some people who never even heard of Baha'u'llah are more connected to God than I am.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

Windwalker said:
As long as the heart is true, God's Grace can be received. God is bigger than any one religious system or belief. God does not have a religion.

I agree, and that is what I meant in my previous post when I talked about being connected to God.

Baha'u'llah told us some ways we can connect to God, and that it is through the heart, but He did not reinvent the wheel, as these same teachings have been offered in scriptures of the past religions, and some people figure it out without a religion.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

TagliatelliMonster said:
Does that included executing homosexuals after they had sex?

I do not think that was a teaching of Jesus.

TagliatelliMonster said:
What matters is what people do.

The problem is, that actions / decisions are informed by beliefs.
So yes, it matters what people believe - at least insofar as it influences their action and decision making.

I fully agree, it matters in that sense. I was thinking in a narrower sense but since we are all connected, what individuals believe affect other people and society as a whole.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

nPeace said:
The fact that it matters what one believes is evident by what we see...

That is very true, it matters what people believe because beliefs lead to behaviors, but I said: If people lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught, does it really matter if they believe in Jesus or in God?

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

1213 said:
However, I don’t think righteous person would claim that “God does not exist”.

Maybe not, but I believe there are righteous atheists who do not believe God exists.

Trailblazer · Nov 16, 2020

PureX said:
"Jesus" is just a character in a religious story. A character that is proclaimed to have been the embodiment of God's spirit on Earth, i.e., the "Christ".

I do not believe that Jesus was just a character in a story. I believe that Jesus really existed as a person who walked the earth, and that is the consensus among scholars, even nonreligious scholars.

PureX said:
Believing in Jesus is missing the whole point, I think. Because believing in the ideal of Christ is the point. Trusting in that spirit of the divine within us, and allowing it to guide our thoughts and actions, so that it can heal us and save us from ourselves, is the point of Jesus' story.

I fully agree. It is not belief in Jesus that matters, it is living the life Jesus taught.

PureX said:
We don't necessarily even need to know of the story of Jesus to intuit that divine spirit within ourselves, and choose to allow it to guide us in life. Let alone "believe in" it's main character. If believing in the story and it's characters helps us to do that then so be it. But it's not a prerequisite.

I do not believe in the stories and the characters in the New Testament, and I do not think that is important either.
It is the teachings of Jesus that come through the parables and such that guide us in life. For example:

Matthew 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 7:24-27 Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.

Windwalker · Nov 16, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I agree, and that is what I meant in my previous post when I talked about being connected to God.

Baha'u'llah told us some ways we can connect to God, and that it is through the heart, but He did not reinvent the wheel, as these same teachings have been offered in scriptures of the past religions, and some people figure it out without a religion.

It's interesting you mentioned that. I'm reading a book right now on Christian contemplation, the practice of Christian mystics through the ages. In the book she references the old masters as saying to, "put the mind in the heart". There is something to the path of the heart, that is a unique and distinct feature in the Christian, and also the Islamic tradition within the Sufi tradition.

It's a path to nonduality, or to find Unity with the Divine, beyond the Realization of Emptiness, which is also talked about within Buddhist traditions through Nagarjuna. The path of the heart however, is more pronounced in the Abrahamic traditions. 'Put the mind in the heart,' is practice of the awareness being opened by centering it in the heart.

In my personal practices of Taiji (Tai Chi), it is a meditative practice that is part of the marital art form. I know the experience of opening Awareness through a totally relaxed posture, while bringing attention to the different energy centers of the body. The "heart" is one of those energy centers, which Taiji refer to as lower, middle, and upper Dan Tien's, or "caldrons". The middle Dan Tien is the "heart center".

So as I practice the standing meditation, I bring focus to the heart center, and collect the energy there. I believe I can understand what these Christian mystics of the past meant, as well as the Sufis. It has the effect of making you very open, aware, calm, and grounded, connected with everything that arises.

I'm wondering, from what you have read, does your teachings specify anything about any "heart practices"? Does it speak of any practices the follower may do?

fiveohg · Nov 16, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I wonder about this a lot. If people lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught, does it really matter if they believe in Jesus or in God?

As a Baha’i, I believe it matters if people recognize Baha’u’llah, because otherwise Baha’u’llah would not have enjoined us to proclaim that He has come, but why does it matter if people recognize Him, as long as they lead a moral life and follow His teachings? What’s the big deal if they do not follow the Baha’i laws? If they are living by the teachings as I see most people on this forum are doing, why does it matter what they believe? Why does it matter if they adhere to another religion or no religion at all? Why does it matter if they believe in God? What difference is it going to make what religion they adhere to or if they adhere to any religion at all or believe in God?

I once posted this on a Baha’i forum and no Baha’is were able to answer my question, so that is one reason why I am posting it here. If Baha’is believe it matters so much that people of other religions or no religion become Baha’is, I want to know why they think it matters.

Of course I also want to know if other people think it matters what people believe. For example, if Christians believe it matters that people believe in Jesus, why does it matter?

I have my own ideas why I think it matters what people believe. I believe it matters that people know what reality is, the purpose for which they were created and where they will spend eternity.

Do you think it matters if people know what reality is, the purpose for their existence and what will happen after they die?

If there is no afterlife, I do not think it matters that much what people believe as long as they follow the teachings of Jesus and live a good life, caring about other people and all living creatures and the environment. But will it matter what they believed in this life if there is an afterlife? That is the hundred-dollar question. I am sure some people will disagree, but I do not think this question is answered definitively in any scriptures.

In the Writings of Baha’u’llah we are told the destiny of a believer, but He does not specify what religion they believed in, and it leaves the destiny of everyone else wide open.

“They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe...” Gleanings, p. 171

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.” Gleanings, p. 345

fiveohg · Nov 16, 2020

fiveohg · Nov 16, 2020

At the end its a game , should we take it serious or ignore what others think

nPeace · Nov 16, 2020

Trailblazer said:
That is very true, it matters what people believe because beliefs lead to behaviors, but I said: If people lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught, does it really matter if they believe in Jesus or in God?

Oh, sorry.

I assume by good life, you mean what we think is a good life. It may be a good life to us, but is what is a good life to us, the same as what is a good life to God?
What is considered a good life from man's standpoint, is not necessarily a good life from God's standpoint.
(1 Corinthians 2:14) But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually.

(1 Corinthians 3:19) . . .For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. . .

Matthew 7:21-23 ; John 15:10, 14 ; John 14:15, 21
Luke 6:46 - “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?

It's easy to say once we love God, and love our neighbor, we are fine, but do we really know what loving God involves, or are we willing to accept that?
For example, do we really love God if we ignore his commands?

Since then, God sets the standard of what is good, then it does matters... It matters to God, and to those serving God.

Does it really matter what people believe?

Gone

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Gone

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Veteran Member