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Genesis 1 and John 1

Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
cataway said:
how is it you use Genesis 1 and John 1 and not Colossians 1:17 ?
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because john is a gnostic gospel and colossians isn't. i'm not a fan of hellenistic paul. paul contradicts the idea that jesus was conveying that the kingdom of god is imminent.

paul wants to promote idolatry; which to many christians just absolutely adore. like the jews with moses at mount sinai they want an indirect relationship with god and a mediator, whipping boy, so they can simply pay a fine and keep on steamrolling people who get in the way of their egos.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
because john is a gnostic gospel and colossians isn't. i'm not a fan of hellenistic paul. paul contradicts the idea that jesus was conveying that the kingdom of god is imminent.

paul wants to promote idolatry; which to many christians just absolutely adore. like the jews with moses at mount sinai they want an indirect relationship with god and a mediator, whipping boy, so they can simply pay a fine and keep on steamrolling people who get in the way of their egos.
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perhaps you could explain more on ''paul wants to promote idolatry '' and then ''which to many christians just absolutely adore. ''
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
cataway said:
perhaps you could explain more on ''paul wants to promote idolatry '' and then ''which to many christians just absolutely adore. ''
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don't jws worship something apart from self? something with a form that is in contrast to self?


Deuteronomy 4:15
 
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Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
cataway said:
what makes you think that JW worship themselves?
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i didn't state that jws worshiped themselves. i asked you a question about jws worshipping something other than themselves, something in direct contrast; which they define as god.
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Fool said:
before the beginning/creation there was three things that existed: 1: god, 2: Spirit, 3: the waters

then the logos, christ, created everything through itself? the logos was created in the beginning; when God spoke?

but the logos did not create that which was before it, or without it?
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What happened to the thread a couple weeks ago where you said listening to anyone else's descriptions of God was like drinking their urine?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Left Coast said:
What happened to the thread a couple weeks ago where you said listening to anyone else's descriptions of God was like drinking their urine?
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sometimes i like grape, sometimes apple, sometimes orange, sometimes.......................but i'm definitely not squeezing a lemon to get something other than what i'm squeezing for. i'm not squeezing for urine today.


@Electra gave a really good reply to that question too
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Fool said:
sometimes i like grape, sometimes apple, sometimes orange, sometimes.......................but i'm definitely not squeezing a lemon to get something other than what i'm squeezing for. i'm not squeezing for urine today.
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Were you ever?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Left Coast said:
Were you ever?
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the amazing thing about a question, problem is that you never know where the answer is coming from


premarin for example.


i'll take it ever how i can get it. never look a gift horse in the mouth


who ever thought fecal transplants would be a thing?


FYI, i like that avatar picture.

it reminds me of monet
 
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cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
i didn't state that jws worshiped themselves. i asked you a question about jws worshipping something other than themselves, something in direct contrast; which they define as god.
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thought you would of come to the understanding the God's name is Jehovah
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
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Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Fool said:
paul wants to promote idolatry; which to many christians just absolutely adore. like the jews with moses at mount sinai they want an indirect relationship with god and a mediator, whipping boy, so they can simply pay a fine and keep on steamrolling people who get in the way of their egos.
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Really?

The Israelites' problem at Sinai was that they could not take the immediate presence of G-d or else they would die. G-d spoke to them the first 2 commandments using his own voice so they'd know Moshe wasn't a fraud; then Moshe delivered the rest to the Israelites because they were nowhere near Moshe's level and could not hear G-d and live.
 
MonkeyFire

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Would you believe me if I told you the Heavens had existed for an eternity always before and the only reason God created the world was because the world was destroyed by satan.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Rival said:
Really?

The Israelites' problem at Sinai was that they could not take the immediate presence of G-d or else they would die. G-d spoke to them the first 2 commandments using his own voice so they'd know Moshe wasn't a fraud; then Moshe delivered the rest to the Israelites because they were nowhere near Moshe's level and could not hear G-d and live.
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Moshe never entered the land of milk and honey for a reason. Joshua was the Oracle.

Sounds reminiscent to a certain tree in a garden


 
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blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fool said:
before the beginning/creation there was three things that existed: 1: god, 2: Spirit, 3: the waters

then the logos, christ, created everything through itself? the logos was created in the beginning; when God spoke?

but the logos did not create that which was before it, or without it?
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There are five distinct Jesuses in the NT, with three distinct backgrounds. Only two of the five created the universe, the Jesus of Paul:

1 Corinthian 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

and, as you say, the Jesus of the author of John:

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.​

These both reflect gnosticism, since they're also the only two Jesuses that pre-existed in Heaven with God and were sent from there to earth as God's emissary. These qualities identify their Jesuses with the gnostic demiurge, who had to be the creator because God, being absolutely pure spirit and very remote, would never create the (non-spiritual, implicitly less than pure) material universe. Having created it, the demiurge then mediates between that universe and God.

So when you say above that the waters pre-existed the creation, if that's correct ─ I'm inclined to think the waters are covered by Genesis 1.1 ─ then it's nonetheless not correct for the Jesuses of Paul and of the author of John.
 
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