I meant that you are no different to the Christians you highlighted as arguing over the correct interpretation of the Bible in a way that is confusing to atheists (and anyone else) looking on from the outside. I’d respectfully suggest that you’re part of the same problem and it’s somewhat hypocritical to complain about the others without at least acknowledging that.
Of course I admit that I interpret the Bible my own way and that I think my interpretation is more correct, so
in that sense I am no different from the Christians I was referring to. But there is a difference, because I am a Baha’i, so a different interpretation is to be expected since Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ and a Manifestation of God. We also believe that Baha’u’llah had the authority invested in Him by God to interpret the Bible and that He knew its hidden meanings that no Christian knows.
You never really identified any subset and gave no reason why the issues you mentioned would be exclusive to atheists. In general terms, I think it is extremely rare for there to be a valid reason to even use the word “atheist” to define a group of people, especially given how generic, open and disputed it’s meaning is. Most division and conflict is driven by people being lumped in to such generic categories, which generally boil down to “us” and “them”, so I think it’s best to avoid them unless they’re specifically necessary or beneficial.
I agree with that in general but I was trying to say something about atheists in particular, even though it does not apply to all atheists, so I apologize if it does not apply to you.
On your point specifically, I think the focus of atheists actually distracts from a key element of the problem. I’d suggest that believers are just as confused over the “correct” interpretation of scripture and the wider big questions of existence (because the idea that all the answers just need us to work out the correct interpretation of the Christian Bible is ridiculously presumptive and highly arrogant).
That is exactly what I was saying. In my OP I said “Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe.” What I meant is that atheists can understand the Bible better than believers because they have a more objective view of the Bible since they have nothing invested in beliefs. I think it is the believers who are confused about the meaning of the Bible,
not the atheists.
People argue so strongly with each other not because they’re confident other people are wrong but because deep down, they’re not at all confident they’re right. People who are truly comfortable in their own world-view don’t need to argue with anyone else about it.
That might be true of
some people but I do not think it is true of all or even most people. Some people are confident that what they believe is true. It is not true that people who are comfortable with their own religion or world-view never argue about it; some people just like to argue. It could be an ego thing but not necessarily. A person might actually care about the person they are talking to and a discussion becomes an argument before they even realize it. This has happens to me with one atheist on my own forum and when I finally realize I am arguing I opt out of responding at all. Some people think they are always right about
everything so there is no point even posting to them. No matter what you say they contradict you and criticize you. The dead giveaway is when you ask them poignant questions and they obfuscate or make snide remarks instead of answering.
I’m not saying we’re incapable of having the knowledge, only that I see no natural path for us to gain it. Even if someone happened to stumble of a belief structure that did have the precise right answers, how would they know, for certain, that they were right?
I know I am right but that probably sounds arrogant to you. I think the reason I know is because God guided me, not because I am smarter than other people.But I also did a lot of homework, work most people are not willing to spend their time on. Of course I could be wrong because there is no way to prove a belief is true.
I do not like religion very much and I like God even less, so I tried to run away from the Baha’i Faith and God for most of the years I have been a Baha’i; but no matter how hard I tried I could never disprove it. There is just too much evidence, too many things that line up perfectly. Even if one thing was out of place I would be willing to consider that I might be wrong, but I cannot find anything.
Your statements about your religion sound exactly like all the ones that came before and all the ones that came after. I mean, it could be word-for-word what early Christians told the Jews.
That is a very good observation because Baha’is are in the
same position as the early Christians. The early Christians had a *new truth* from God that Jesus revealed and the Jews rejected that Truth. Now history is repeating itself because the Baha’is have a *new truth* from God and all the other believers in the older religions are rejecting it, especially Christians.
Here is what happens whenever a *new* Messenger of God appears...
“From the beginning of the world until the present time each ‘Manifestation’ 1 sent from God has been opposed by an embodiment of the ‘Powers of Darkness’.
This dark power has always endeavoured to extinguish the light. Tyranny has ever sought to overcome justice. Ignorance has persistently tried to trample knowledge underfoot. This has, from the earliest ages, been the method of the material world.
In the time of Moses, Pharaoh set himself to prevent the Mosaic Light being spread abroad.
In the day of Christ, Annas and Caiaphas inflamed the Jewish people against Him and the learned doctors of Israel joined together to resist His Power. All sorts of calumnies were circulated against Him. The Scribes and Pharisees conspired to make the people believe Him to be a liar, an apostate, and a blasphemer. They spread these slanders throughout the whole Eastern world against Christ, and caused Him to be condemned to a shameful death!
In the case of Muḥammad also, the learned doctors of His day determined to extinguish the light of His influence. They tried by the power of the sword to prevent the spread of His teaching.
In spite of all their efforts the Sun of Truth shone forth from the horizon. In every case the army of light vanquished the powers of darkness on the battlefield of the world, and the radiance of the Divine Teaching illumined the earth. Those who accepted the Teaching and worked for the Cause of God became luminous stars in the sky of humanity.
Now, in our own day, history repeats itself.
Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth: they resist the Command of God; they invent calumnies, not having arguments against it, neither proofs. They attack with masked faces, not daring to come forth into the light of day.”
Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks
