Who Is Hiding God From Us? (Is it god, or is it us?)

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Maybe God is just out visiting his friends? I mean deities have lives too, guys. They can’t always hang around and babysit us.

I would immediately land on that we are hiding God. I like the way you explained it. I'll add then language added into this creates the illusion of God as "a god" or a deity form, rather than the underlying Ground of all that is. It's not really possible for a dualistic language, or perception, to perceive God in those terms. God is nondual, and all the rest is duality. That's why the mystics of the ages always say, "look within", because inside is the prior condition of nonduality that mind and perception create reality on top of. The is perceived reality, and then there is Reality, which includes all perceptions. I call that God.

The deities are just in front of us and within us all the time it is humanity that has become blinded by ego/self that is the reason humans can not see what we call God
As soon humans let go of the notion of self and see the world through selfless eyes they will see God

Sunstone said:

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us

Click to expand...

That is what I have found we do.

At the same time we will never know the Essence of God, it is beyond the capacity of mind.

All we can know of God, is what we choose to know of God's Messengers. It is our consciousness.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

That is what I have found we do.

At the same time we will never know the Essence of God, it is beyond the capacity of mind.

All we can know of God, is what we choose to know of God's Messengers. It is our consciousness.

Regards Tony

Click to expand...

I would add that we are one and all created in the image of the Messenger, all the potential is enshrined within us, it is up to us to bring forth these qualities, be as a light to the world.

Regards Tony

If God is not intentionally hiding, and we cannot perceive/conceive of God because that is the nature of our consciousness, then it is not a 'who' that is hiding God from us, but a 'what.'

Bonus: Would having 'better' senses and a 'better' ability to conceive (would that be a 'better' consciousness?) mean we'd be able say that God is less hidden from us? At what point would God no longer be 'hidden' from us because of the inherent limitations of being biological entities in a very large cosmos?

Hello once again..friend!

And now Your working it...
You will see the more you look..
Let the seeds work you out!

God cannot hide him(self) from your(self)..but YOU can hide IT from your(self)[God]. After all God ‘IS TO BE THE SELF’..and you have it. And from all that has eaten The Tree of Knowledge..now knows all that’s good and therefore be..is bad! FOR there was none..but your own intentions in it(good&bad)..be which why create in them...where there is innocence there are no intentions.

It is a little bit of both.

1. God's MAyA** hides God -- this is us being deaf and blind to Him, too engrossed in our daily life, safe and comfortable i.e. being ignorant of Him.

2. God also hides. and watches. He does not easily reveal Himself , even to those who claim to be His devotee. Not because He is mean, but because the person is not ready for Him.
Most of us have at least one foot rooted in this world and worldly life.
Do you think people will be able to handle Him?

Sidetrack: Why are Venkateshwara's eyes always closed? Because if He opened them, you will not be able to handle the brightness.

God needs complete surrender. He plays "hungry for pure true Love" How many people are willing to put all cards on the table and say "I am all Yours, do as You wish?"
Not because He needs this , but that is His trick -- His way to make the mortal beings eat their spinach, and only then can they transcend MAyA.

Simply saying "God, I love You" verbally is nothing. He will say , "Really? Let me see. " and yank the floor off beneath the person's feet.
"No no God please... I want that floor back , please. OK I get the message. I will not say things in vain...."

--
Then there are [eternal] relationships with God from past lives -- ruNAnubandha. We forget them, but He remembers all.
OR
He is watching the sincere seeker try to figure out His words (scripture) -- and show spark -- like a teacher watches the bright kid in class figure things out and smiles.

When the time is right (only God know when that is) , He will walk up , stretch out His Lotus Hand and yank His beloved out of the material dessert.

---
Then there are those who surprise God, and He has to appear in Person to see and glorify the being:

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**MAyA -- is commonly called "illusion" but actually , MAyA = that which tries to measure the immeasurable. Also, root of the word mAyA means a kind of motherly love, that wants Her children to have all the comforts , and shield them from the harsh realities. This way MAyA the Mother, shields Her children from the double edged sword called the path to enlightenment.

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

It depends on what you mean.

We do not respond to what has been made clear about God because fo ourselves
We do not respond to the gospel because God has not opened their eyes and hearts

It's a confluence of wills. Both.

I think that God reveals to whoever God chooses.

So if there were any need to blame somone for not perceiving God I would lay the blame with God.

But since it does not effect our salvation or anything crucial there is nothing blameworthy in God revealing or not revealing God’s self.

It simply becomes an arbitrary choice of God’s to do so or not to do so.

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

Great question!

It does seem that way, doesn’t it? That God is hiding himself?

In order to get the right perspective, we must first realize that God sees things in a much broader view than man, with a far greater scope of time and space. His prophet describes him as the “One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.” (Isa. 40:22) In his dealings with men, Jehovah as the farseeing God always keeps in focus the carrying out of his own righteous purpose.

What purpose is that?

God is going to govern mankind in peace and unity. It was His original purpose. But He made man a free moral agent, and He never forces anyone to serve Him.

But right at the start (according to the Biblical timeline, Genesis 3), His sovereignty was questioned...He was even called a liar... by one of His own free-willed spirit sons. This rebel made himself an opposer and slanderer (Satan and Devil) of Jehovah God.


Sometimes, the best way to let issues be settled, is to allow them to play out.

So, Jehovah’s done that very thing....He knew the outcome, that mankind’s inability to rule himself would ultimately be unsuccessful....but other intelligent creatures (men & angels) didn’t. So Jehovah has left man to his own devices... for the most part.

He did step in once, causing the Flood, but at that time some angels, according to Genesis 6:1-4, were taking human wives and producing hybrid offspring, the Nephilim (“fellers”). (Violence was rampant.) Where do you think the common thread in Greek, Roman, Norse myths, etc., of gods having sex w/ humans and siring Hercules, Perseus, etc., came from?!
God had to intervene!

And He did so at other times, on smaller scales, to protect His people Israel thru whom the Messiah would come, which reveals God’s ultimate and righteous purpose.

But God mostly stays out of human affairs, letting the issues including Sovereignty get settled.

So, throughout the centuries, people have suffered a lot at others’ hands. But there is one thing about it: individually, suffering only lasts 70 to 90 years. (If it’s real bad, a lot less.) God knows this. That’s why the Resurrection hope He offers (of people getting another chance to live again on this Earth, under perfect conditions) is so precious! Revelation 21:3-4


He purposes to gather together under his administration (precursor to His Kingdom, of which we pray “to come” Matthew 6:9-10) all those who recognize and love His sovereignty. Therefore, to establish a foundation for an entire world of mankind that would listen to Him as their loving Father, God had to provide a knowledge of the standards and principles of his righteous administration and how it operates. More importantly, men needed a knowledge of God himself and of his qualities.—John 17:3.

Hence we have the Bible.

Some of this is from : God’s Wisdom in Dealing with Mankind — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

As I've mentioned in great detail numerous times, there's a mark of extraterrestrial intelligence (God/gods) embedded within our genetic coding. Hence, there is indeed prima facie evidence of some powerful extraterrestrial intelligence. (God/gods)


Also, video footage of possible extraterrestrial drones (God/gods) surveying Earthling civilizations recently have been well-documented . I reckon these possible extraterrestrial craft (God/gods) may elude capture by any particular Earthling civilization in order to maintain a technological balance of power among all Earth-based nations.

@Sunstone
(Assuming the omni everything God does exist)
(Let's face it something that IS omnipresent is pretty hard to miss.)
It isn't hiding, but we are hiding it behind our concepts of what we think God is.
We must diminish our egos and refine our senses, so that we can experience God just like we experience everything else. i.e thru seeing, hearing, taste/smell and feeling.

Peace etc.

Sunstone said:

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Click to expand...

I think it's a matter for mistaking Creator (khāliqu) for Creation (khalqi) and not realizing the ontological veil (al-Hijab) of existence that distinguishes one from the other. We don't see God because there is nothing to see, we are manifest and God is not. God is transcendent and infinitely close, we are finite. It's that we falsely assume forms, when forms are Created (khalqi) things. To know Creator (khāliqu) is to know formless and eternal - which is not Creation (khalqi).
God isn't absent but it's often that many don't quite understand what they are seeking by the term "God".

Jedster said:

@Sunstone
(Assuming the omni everything God does exist)
(Let's face it something that IS omnipresent is pretty hard to miss.)
It isn't hiding, but we are hiding it behind our concepts of what we think God is.

Click to expand...

To quote a certain book of mine: "Exalted is (God) and high above what they associate with (Him)." - Surah 16:1 the sentiment reflected heavily elsewhere in our texts as well (and of course in other religions too, especially in Vedanta).

Firemorphic said:

It's that we falsely assume forms, when forms are Created (khalqi) things. To know Creator (khāliqu) is to know formless and eternal - which is not Creation (khalqi).

Click to expand...

On the other hand, it requires a certain level of spiritual maturity to see the formless, spaceless, timeless God expressing Himself through rare, genuine and very unique "forms" that He has told us are His.
Actually the Godly vision sees God everywhere, in the creation also, but that is a high spiritual state - to truly see God everywhere (not just theory).

More than form , it is the formless Person we associate with. To associate with something they have to be a Person, or become a Person out of compassion.

Sunstone said:

If god exists, then why does god hide from us?

Click to expand...

we are the iron age, that's why. but we can seek gods if we want.

ameyAtmA said:

On the other hand, it requires a certain level of spiritual maturity to see the formless, spaceless, timeless God expressing Himself through rare, genuine and very unique "forms" that He has told us are His.
Actually the Godly vision sees God everywhere, in the creation also, but that is a high spiritual state - to truly see God everywhere (not just theory).

More than form , it is the formless Person we associate with. To associate with something they have to be a Person, or become a Person out of compassion.

Click to expand...

Yes I fully agree with you

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

God hides from us? News to me.