Are We In Fact Born In Hell?

susanblange said:

There is no fire in Hell, the fire is going to be on earth. The Hebrew word for "Angel" is seraphim and it means "burning ones". In the book of Daniel, Daniel and his two friends were thrown into a fiery furnace but they were not burned. It was their natural habitat.

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Susan, ... Uncle Terry thinks it's time for you to post a thread that shares many, if not all, of your convictions with everybody. Your "hit-and-run" posts confuse just about everybody and leave them thinking that you are obtuse or stupid. I don't believe that, even if I don't believe much that you say you believe.

How 'bout it? Check with Elijah and see what he thinks about the idea of you posting your beliefs in one place instead of posting a little bit here and a little bit there.

Samantha Rinne said:

Think of the world on three distinct dimensional tracks.

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Your whole post has the same problem as this one sentence. There is absolutely no case made as to WHY we should think of things this way or accept this as some representation of reality. Without that, I don't feel there is really any point to this.

Samantha Rinne said:

You know all of those fantasy books with pixies and gnomes and supernatural creatures? And magical ability? That's Earth, it has them.

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And so with the real earth, would that separate dimensional track be considered metaphysical to the hell and heaven track, or is it technically a physical location as it relates to the others

Amanaki said:

According to Buddhist teaching human realm is just 3 realm above what you call Hell. But it is different then the Christian Hell

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I've apparently ignored Amanaki for saying something earlier that maybe annoyed me. A shame though cuz this is really cool. I only knew of the 6 paths of rebirth. Just the human, deva, heaven, hell, hungry ghost, and animal.

Thanks to this, I found this website (all 89 pages).

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/allexistence.pdf

ChristineM

The christian idea of hell gets more from Hieronymus Bosch and Dante Alighieri. Good to know the threats i get for not worshipping the christian version of god are based on art and comedy.

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Don't forget the name comes from the Norse. Helheim. Which they got totally wrong, as it is decidedly NOT hot at all.

Hel (The Underworld) - Norse Mythology for Smart People

Helheim is more like a shadowy place, an echo of the living world. Which works out just fine. Ummmm, some of us are cool with that depiction of the afterlife, Christine. Hell, I'm not even cool with this drawing of Jesus, so yeah artists have a lot to answer for.

1. The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil isn't an apple
2. Jesus probably isn't a long-haired dude with a beard (post-Resurrection he may not have a fixed form)
   
3. And Hell probably looks alot like the world we live in (enough that I started this thread)

Muffled (re: Buddhist fire sermon)

I believe that is absolutely counter to what Jesus teaches. He teaches that when one loses his life, he gains it. Avoiding sense may save one from pain but the person loses his life in the process. I believe that Jesus came to bring us life and that more abundantly.

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Having studied the Six Paths concept, I nonetheless find this strange too.

A Vestigial Mote said:

Your whole post has the same problem as this one sentence. There is absolutely no case made as to WHY we should think of things this way or accept this as some representation of reality. Without that, I don't feel there is really any point to this.

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Well, for one, I was citing a webcomic in the first post that basically sees three layers like this. And a main character is born there.
The point of the article was to parallel this to a theoretical "what if all of us here are like this? What if all the maps are lying about what world we're in?" In order for it to be credible, we must immediately rewrite the assumptions of Hell being a place of fire. Since most of us do not live next to active volcanoes.

crossfire said:

From a psychological context, the Jungian Shadow is where we toss and repress our psychological garbage.

As for Gehenna, one could make the arguement that the sensory world can be a burning hell from Buddha's Fire Sermon. The way to escape the burning is to simply become disenchanted with sensory imput.

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Muffled said:

I believe some people don't understand that it was used as a metaphor for the lake of fire. Otherwise we would be weeping and gnashing our teeth over the ones we have cremated.

I believe that is absolutely counter to what Jesus teaches. He teaches that when one loses his life, he gains it. Avoiding sense may save one from pain but the person loses his life in the process. I believe that Jesus came to bring us life and that more abundantly.

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Matthew 5:27-30 (some translations use 'hellfire" or "Gehenna" instead of "hell" in this saying.)

Keeping this within the context of adultery beginning in the heart/mind, gouging out your right eye or cutting off your hand is metaphorical for becoming disenchanted from visual or tactile stimulation, which is what Buddha's Fire Sermon also says.

Samantha Rinne said:

I've apparently ignored Amanaki for saying something earlier that maybe annoyed me. A shame though cuz this is really cool. I only knew of the 6 paths of rebirth. Just the human, deva, heaven, hell, hungry ghost, and animal.

Thanks to this, I found this website (all 89 pages).

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/allexistence.pdf

ChristineM


Don't forget the name comes from the Norse. Helheim. Which they got totally wrong, as it is decidedly NOT hot at all.

Hel (The Underworld) - Norse Mythology for Smart People

Helheim is more like a shadowy place, an echo of the living world. Which works out just fine. Ummmm, some of us are cool with that depiction of the afterlife, Christine. Hell, I'm not even cool with this drawing of Jesus, so yeah artists have a lot to answer for.

1. The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil isn't an apple
2. Jesus probably isn't a long-haired dude with a beard (post-Resurrection he may not have a fixed form)
   
3. And Hell probably looks alot like the world we live in (enough that I started this thread)

Muffled (re: Buddhist fire sermon)


Having studied the Six Paths concept, I nonetheless find this strange too.



Well, for one, I was citing a webcomic in the first post that basically sees three layers like this. And a main character is born there.
The point of the article was to parallel this to a theoretical "what if all of us here are like this? What if all the maps are lying about what world we're in?" In order for it to be credible, we must immediately rewrite the assumptions of Hell being a place of fire. Since most of us do not live next to active volcanoes.

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If i have annoyed you, that has never been my intention. Bur happy you like web site you found

Samantha Rinne said:

And these paragraphs of mine need to be in better order, yes, but you get the concept. Anyway, thoughts? Assuming this is true, what does this mean for life in general? And what can be done about the demons that want to keep us here?

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Technically no since everyone is not born in New Jersey.

Life is suffering. When we die we go into the light, look into the face of God, become so enamored with God's infinite beauty, time stops and we experience Heavenly bliss for all Eternity.

It really doesn't matter how you lived your life. Everyone has the chance to go into the light. All you have to do to experience Heavenly bliss for all Eternity is to have absolute faith in God's omnipotent powers of forgiveness and His unconditional love for every facet of His creation including all the parts with imperfections. If you doubt yourself for one moment, you are forced down the path to reincarnation. As you travel down the path of reincarnation your tortured by demons and monsters of your own creation. Since each of us is our own greatest judge and critic the demons and monsters we create are the most awful kind possible as dictated by our own minds. Once we arrive at our destination we are born again somewhere in New Jersey to start the endless cycle of death and rebirth one more time. New Jersey is what Samsara is all about!

This is what is outlined in the Tibetan Book of the Dead:

Early christendom had this belief as well. Gnostics, cathars, albigensians and others sect thought there were two creators, a spiritual realm of good things made by God, and an inherently corrupt material realm created by a negative force.

Human life is punishment.

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--Seneca

Life is certainly bad enough that I could buy this theory.

DanishCrow said:

Early christendom had this belief as well. Gnostics, cathars, albigensians and others sect thought there were two creators, a spiritual realm of good things made by God, and an inherently corrupt material realm created by a negative force.

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You beat me to it.

In my Cathar-tinted, Dualist spiritual/worldview, the physical realm (our universe) was created by Satan as a place where he could be the Big Cheese instead of playing second fiddle to God, against whom he had warred and lost. Record scratch- freeze frame- fast forward to midstory: Man is trying (or should be trying) to purify himself to where his soul is string enough to escape the physical realm upon his death. If he doesn't his soul will transmigrate to another body and the game starts all over again. Pause- fast forward to the end of the story: When enough souls have returned to the spiritual realm- to God- the physical realm (our universe) will cease to exist and Satan will be returned to the spiritual realm to await an inevitable beat-down from God for being such a damned nuisance.

This world- in addition to being cruel and rotten and diseased and full of aggressive vegetarians- is a remoteness from the presence of God and, as such, IS 'hell'.

Chill out, Salvatore (Gods help me, I love that movie, in all it's campy drama overload)

This is more or less the vedic (or buddhist/hindu) take on things. I suppose the faiths are not so different after all..

DanishCrow said:

Chill out, Salvatore (Gods help me, I love that movie, in all it's campy drama overload)

This is more or less the vedic (or buddhist/hindu) take on things. I suppose the faiths are not so different after all..

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I am beginning to wonder if my effort to produce a workable version of the Cathar faith- using the little factual information available- is starting to look less like a religion and more like a version of Buddhism with Jesus/Christ as the Buddha figure. If it does end up that way, I'm okay with that- I'm not so sure the 'fake it till you make it' approach really applies all that well to religion.

There are more gnostic faiths and more dualist "heresies" than the cathars, maybe work out from those?

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, we are living in the Kali Yuga where Tamas abounds at the expense of rajas and especially sattva, and increase in Tamas is always associated with hellish contours or negativity

Sattva, Rajas and Tamas – The Three Gunas | Arhanta Yoga Blog

The Triple Gunas, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas