Does a death bed conversion really make a Christian?

Pah · Nov 4, 2006

He was a Christian. Just because he was baptized on his death bed doesn't make him any less Christian than you and I.

I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

Bishka · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

The only way I can comment on this is God will know their hearts. It isn't up to us to judge if they are a 'true' Christian or not. It's up to God and He is the ultimate fair and loving judge. Oh, and I don't believe they will be going to 'hell'.

BFD_Zayl · Nov 4, 2006

*shrugs* the way i see it if this guy went his entire life believing in something else, then the fow days before he died suddenly changes his religion, dosent that means he lacks faith? really i dont care, i was just bringing that into view.

Pah · Nov 4, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
The only way I can comment on this is God will know their hearts. It isn't up to us to judge if they are a 'true' Christian or not. It's up to God and He is the ultimate fair and loving judge. Oh, and I don't believe they will be going to 'hell'.

James 2 says that a failure to follow any of God's laws puts a Christian at risk.

Buttercup · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

God is the judge of a "true" Christian....and he is always just. Doesn't matter when the "lightbulb" comes on as long as it's genuine. Some people simply take longer to see the light than others.

I'm not sure what I believe personally these days but I am sure this is the Christian perspective on the matter.

Bishka · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
James 2 says that a failure to follow any of God's laws puts a Christian at risk.

But I believe more then just the Bible. We do the best we can, and God does the rest.

Pah · Nov 4, 2006

BFD_Zayl said:
*shrugs* the way i see it if this guy went his entire life believing in something else, then the fow days before he died suddenly changes his religion, dosent that means he lacks faith? really i dont care, i was just bringing that into view.

It strikes me that the motivation is fear and not truth.

Buttercup · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
It strikes me that the motivation is fear and not truth.

But you can't really know....could be fear but maybe not. I wouldn't concern yourself with it. God of course would prefer that someone lived their entire life in his service.

Pah · Nov 4, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
But I believe more then just the Bible. We do the best we can, and God does the rest.

Wow! that could be another thread to explore whether later revelation negates something in the Bible. Not that you are wrong to do so, but it is an interesting question

Random · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
It strikes me that the motivation is fear and not truth.

Me too. A shoddy character might try to hedge his bets to get into Heaven @ the last possible moment. But he will fail because I think you are judged on how Christian you life was, not your death.

Hacker · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
It strikes me that the motivation is fear and not truth.

I agree, I think "primarily" the issue at hand is fear. There's a chance that it's not though as buttecups says.

Buttercup · Nov 4, 2006

tlcmel said:
I agree, I think "primarily" the issue at hand is fear. There's a chance that it's not though as buttecups says.

Let's say the motivation is fear.....does that make it wrong? I converted to Christianity in the first place partly through fear of hell.

lilithu · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

Think of the parable of the prodigal son. Of course the father loves the son who was always loyal and faithful, but he never stopped loving the son who rejected him either. Christianity at its best is all about unconditional love, forgiveness no matter what, as long as your heart is true.

It is NEVER too late to convert, to have a change of heart, to repent. If you're going to say that someone has to have been Christian all their life then what you're saying is that those of us who have more than a few years on us might as well not bother.

Hacker · Nov 4, 2006

Buttercup said:
Let's say the motivation is fear.....does that make it wrong? I converted to Christianity in the first place partly through fear of hell.

Nope your not wrong the religon is wrong. I was a Catholic for years out of fear, and I'll admit it again.

:fork: :seesaw:

Fluffy · Nov 4, 2006

I would argue that death bed conversion and death bed baptism are seperate events. I was under the impression that some cultures throughout history believed that, since baptism was a way of removing sin, being baptised at the end of your life was more productive that being baptised at the beginning. It would be wrong to assume that these people were in some way converting on their death bed.

Bishka · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
Wow! that could be another thread to explore whether later revelation negates something in the Bible. Not that you are wrong to do so, but it is an interesting question

I'm not saying it negates it, but there could be more revelation in addition to what was already given to clarify the issue.

Katzpur · Nov 4, 2006

Pah said:
I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

First of all, I don't think baptism is really the issue here, but then it's always kind of bugged me to hear people say, "I become a Christian on June 12 at 4:45 P.M." I just don't think one "becomes a Christian" at any given moment any more than I believe a person "is saved" at any given moment. Christ said (and I'm paraphrasing here, because I'm too lazy to go look for the exact quote), "By this shall men know that ye are my disciples: that ye have love one to another." I've never met a person yet who develops Christ-like love overnight. A person does not need to be perfect (thank goodness) to call himself a Christian, but I do think our actions speak louder than our words.

sandy whitelinger · Nov 4, 2006

Godlike said:
Me too. A shoddy character might try to hedge his bets to get into Heaven @ the last possible moment. But he will fail because I think you are judged on how Christian you life was, not your death.

That's not a Biblical position. The thief on the cross contradicts your position.

There is another way to see it as well. Christ said that the only way to the father is by Him and repeatedely it is stated that the only way to him is by faith. Now suppose a person is on their deathbed and truly accepts Christ and Christ accepts them (a part of the equation that is almost always left out). Is that person then s.o.l. because they decided to believe 20 minutes before their death instead of 20 years?

Suppose they truly believed 20 years earlier. Were they any more saved 20 years later? Not if salvation is by faith in and of Christ as the Bible clearly states.

Katzpur · Nov 4, 2006

sandy whitelinger said:
That's not a Biblical position. The thief on the cross contradicts your position.

There are a number of things we really don't know about this individual:

1. We generally assume he had not been baptized, but we certainly don't know for sure. After all, how many men do you suppose there on on death row in prisons thoughout the U.S. today who were baptized?

2. He specifically refers to Jesus as "Lord." While I have never heard this taught, it would make sense to me that He was at least familiar with the teachings of Jesus Christ. If he were hanging on the cross next to Christ and had never laid eyes on Him before, it seems kind of odd that he would address Him as "Lord."

3. We're not even sure that he was guilty of the crime he'd been convicted of. The Romans obviously didn't have any qualms about crucifying Jesus and He was clearly not guilty of any crime. It is entirely possible that the "thief" was just as innocent.

There is another way to see it as well. Christ said that the only way to the father is by Him and repeatedely it is stated that the only way to him is by faith. Now suppose a person is on their deathbed and truly accepts Christ and Christ accepts them (a part of the equation that is almost always left out). Is that person then s.o.l. because they decided to believe 20 minutes before their death instead of 20 years?

How likely do you really think it is that someone is going to "decide to believe" in Jesus Christ 20 minutes before he dies -- for any reason other than to make sure he's got his bases covered?

Suppose they truly believed 20 years earlier. Were they any more saved 20 years later? Not if salvation is by faith in and of Christ as the Bible clearly states.

Obviously there are individuals who do not embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ until later during their lifetimes, and I believe Christ's forgiveness is extended to them as fully as if they had lived the majority of their lives as His followers. The bottom line is that Christ knows our hearts, and a last ditch attempt to gain favor by declaring faith in Him isn't going to fool Him.

Mick in England · Nov 5, 2006

Deathbed conversions have got to come from the heart, you can't just say a few words without meaning them.
Here's a little tale I've woven around a Bible incident involving a man we'll call Rufus who locked onto Jesus from the heart..

RUFUSby Mick
Rufus could feel death creeping up on him.
His heart pounded painfully as he struggled for breath, and in his final minutes he closed his eyes and looked back over his life.
Born in the slums to a prostitute mother who gave him away at birth, and an unknown Roman soldier father, he grew up constantly getting in trouble, his philosophy was dog eat dog in this world and all that matters is looking after number one, because nobody else will, that's for sure,and he did it all, lying,stealing,mugging,burglary,extortion,blackmail,deception,fraud,violence...
Now he knew his dead body would be thrown into an unmarked grave before the day was out, and that he'd quickly fade from human memory,unremembered and forgotten as if he'd never existed, having never done a single good thing for anybody in his life nor given anybody reason to lament his passing..
The thought of entering that black void of death made him shiver deep in his soul,and he felt a cold clammy fear like he'd never known before. He opened his eyes,and pulling against the nails in his hands and feet, he turned to the young man on the cross next to him and said with sobbing panicking repentance in his voice "Jesus remember me..."
And Jesus replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise..."
(Luke 23:41)
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Does a death bed conversion really make a Christian?

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