Only the 'saved' will get into heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

SalixIncendium said:
Please share how the views in the OP have harmed you.

Plenty of people are literally psychologically traumatized by the spoonfeeding of hell threats and horrors during their upbringing.

It's like when your kid is scared of monsters under the bed, and you then confirming such monsters are real and scaring the kid even more by invoking them as threats, instead of just telling the child that such monsters aren't real and comforting the kid instead.

The psychological damage such things cause is extremely understimated.

Everybody instantly recognizes how immoral it is to scare your kids like that by pretending the monsters under the bed are real and will engage in unspeakable horror towards the kids if they aren't carefull.

But somehow, hell threats get a free pass because of, once again, the unreasonable privileges of religion.

I say, this is a form of psychological child abuse and we should not at all be silent about it.
The problem is that the parents actually believe it too, while no parent believes in the monsters under the bed.

Who is it that worthy of passing judgment?

Anyone with a decent enough argument to underpin said judgement.

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

LightofTruth said:
What's a "deathbed conversion"?

To use the terminology of the OP, a deathbed conversion would be "accepted the Lord Jesus as your personal saviour in your heart a bit before you die". A "last minute save", if you will.

Anyone who would suggest being saved is an easy thing hasn't got a clue.

The gospel is preached so that men may believe and respond in faith. However, there are many false gospels which can save no one. The sectarian churches teach a spurious God and a spurious Christ.

Jesus says eternal life is in knowing the Father, the one true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent.

The OP is about a specific "interpretation" of the religion.

Aupmanyav · Jun 17, 2019

LightofTruth said:
What's a "deathbed conversion"?

You should have asked Teresa.

LightofTruth · Jun 17, 2019

JJ50 said:
Jesus supposedly said a lot of things some of which weren't credible. He was a mere human like the rest of us, far from perfect.

I believe the Scripture teaches the way of salvation.

LightofTruth · Jun 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
To use the terminology of the OP, a deathbed conversion would be "accepted the Lord Jesus as your personal saviour in your heart a bit before you die". A "last minute save", if you will.

The Scripture doesn't teach that. The way to spot a false religion is to compare their teaching with Scripture.

TagliatelliMonster said:
The OP is about a specific "interpretation" of the religion.

It's one thing to interpret something wrong, and quite another to make up ones own ideas and pretend it's something taught by Scripture.

Unguru · Jun 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
Plenty of people are literally psychologically traumatized by the spoonfeeding of hell threats and horrors during their upbringing.

Oh please! You hardly believe in that anyway, so your complaints are very much nonsense.

SalixIncendium · Jun 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
Plenty of people are literally psychologically traumatized by the spoonfeeding of hell threats and horrors during their upbringing.

Admittedly, I didn't make it past this sentence. And I likely won't until you post some statistical evidence to support this claim.

LightofTruth · Jun 17, 2019

Aupmanyav said:
You should have asked Theresa.

Who's that?

LightofTruth · Jun 17, 2019

JJ50 said:
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT? A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.

First of all, to tell someone they have an immortal immaterial soul that will go to heaven when they die is the Mother of all lies.

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

LightofTruth said:
The Scripture doesn't teach that. The way to spot a false religion is to compare their teaching with Scripture.

So you are saying that a person can't get saved if he or she dies shortly after?

Suppose you got a church and get yourself baptised, you repent, the whole shebbang. And you are being very very sincere. You leave church, cross the streets and get squashed by a truck.

So, you're not safe then?

You are correct though, I don't think scripture teaches anything regarding the "timing" of a conversion.
So why wouldn't a "deathbed conversion" be valid?

It's one thing to interpret something wrong, and quite another to make up ones own ideas and pretend it's something taught by Scripture.

The OP is an atheist.
The OP is describing an interpretation of the religion wish is rather common as well. Meaning, it's not about a marginal sub-cult with only 100 members in its flock. It's a rather common idea that ONLY "the saved" get into heaven and all others into hell. It's also a rather common thing to preach that to children.

Wheter you "agree" with such an "interpretation", is completely besides the point.
The people who engage in it believe they are correct and that YOU are wrong.

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

Unguru said:
Oh please! You hardly believe in that anyway, so your complaints are very much nonsense.

I don't "hardly" believe in that. I simply don't believe in that. Never have.

But many do.
And plenty of people are psychologically traumatized by having such nonsense spoodfed to them during childhood.

If you don't understand how scaring kids with the devil and eternal torture can and will cause psychological damage, then you should inform yourself a bit on child psychology.......

shunyadragon · Jun 17, 2019

LightofTruth said:
I believe the Scripture teaches the way of salvation.

. . . but different interpretations and some churches exclude other Christians.

Unguru · Jun 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
I don't "hardly" believe in that. I simply don't believe in that. Never have.

I'm glad you admit it, that is the important part. You don't believe in it, so your complaining is quite laughable really. Choose one or the other because you have a very incoherent position.

Vinayaka · Jun 17, 2019

JJ50 said:
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT? A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.

It's crazier if it's how a person lives his life. They can rationalise incredibly poor criminal behaviour with it. I met a guy like that ... petty thief, borderline pedophile, all around jerk ... but when confronted he'd just say, 'I'm good. Jesus saved me."

It was absurd.

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

SalixIncendium said:
Admittedly, I didn't make it past this sentence. And I likely won't until you post some statistical evidence to support this claim.

It's literally diagnosable stuff called "Religious Trauma Syndrome".

Religious Trauma Syndrome: Trauma from Leaving Religion
Religious Trauma Syndrome

shunyadragon · Jun 17, 2019

Eddi said:
I agree and I'm a theist

I've found an interesting resource:

Universalism and the Bible – Keith DeRose

The concept of Universalism hedges on selective citations from the Bible, but still believes that 'Salvation through Jesus Christ, and like others offer the 'potential of Salvation.' Also this is by far a small minority view in Christianity.

Unguru · Jun 17, 2019

Vinayaka said:
It's crazier if it's how a person lives his life. They can rationalise incredibly poor criminal behaviour with it. I met a guy like that ... petty thief, borderline pedophile, all around jerk ... but when confronted he'd just say, 'I'm good. Jesus saved me."

It was absurd.

Really? he sounds agnostic

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

Unguru said:
I'm glad you admit it, that is the important part.

There's nothing to "admit". I'm an atheist. It's right there, next to my name in my info summary, right under my post count. Obviously I don't believe in whatever religious claims.

And no, the important part is the stuff I said after that sentence, but you conviniently deleted those sentences from the quote.

I wonder why.

You don't believe in it, so your complaining is quite laughable really.

That such theology is causing disagnosable psychological dammage is not a belief - it's a fact.

Choose one or the other because you have a very incoherent position.

There's nothing incoherent at recognising facts as facts.

If anything is incoherent, it's trying to protect and defend the ongoing psychological abuse of children.

Unguru · Jun 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
I wonder why.

Because the rest of your personal opinions aren't relevant.

TagliatelliMonster · Jun 17, 2019

Unguru said:
Because the rest of your personal opinions aren't relevant.

That the theology desribed in the OP is causing diagnosable psychological dammage in many people, is not an opinion.

That scaring kids with eternal torture and monsters under the bed (satan) is psychologically harmfull to them, and nothing short of psychological child abuse, is not an opinion.

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