Shantanu
Well-Known Member
So the Bahai Faith is an Abrahamic religion? I think they will dispute that.
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My current version of Hinduism
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
ajay0
Well-Known Member
It is an incorrect observation on his part that Bahaullah is mentioned in the Gita. Perhaps he had meant through the phenomenon of the Avatar ( appearing in certain time periods of criticality), that Bahaullah can be perceived as an avatar or messiah in present times.
Or you may have wrongly understood this. It would be great if you can provide a reference to this saying of Shogi Effendi so as to understand the context correctly.
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That's sad. I wish it were more like sports events, where they battle it out on the ground, enjoy the competition, and then afterwards, everyone shakes hands until the next game. I don't see how disagreeing can't be civil.
As you may recall, I left this forum for a year, at one time. The reason was because a few people were getting upset at my words, mostly representing traditional Hinduism. A few people did leave, accusing me (and others) on the way out. So I figured (irrationally) that it would be better for me to leave, and then they would have stayed, having more views here.
But over that year, I thought about it, meditated on it, and realised that all I was doing was expressing my own POV. (In a civil manner at that, as I never get mod warnings, I follow the forum rules fairly well.) Surely on this planet we all have the right to express our POV. If others get angry, that isn't really my problem, it's theirs. So I came back.
Allow me please. Probably @Jim or his sources do not mean that Bahá’u’lláh is part of Hinduism.
If one truly accepts God, one will accept that God is unlimited and comprise all space-time-beings. That is what AUM is, Shiva is, Krishna is. The difference in names is just like ‘South face of Himalayas’ and ‘North face of Himalayas’. Differences are in our views.
This is the teaching of Shri Ramakrishna, Shri Ramana, Shri Chinmayananda et al. But this is probably not the view of most Christians, most Muslims and most Jews.
To me it is actually heartening to see this strand of universalism in the Bahá’ís.
But of course the kind of proselytism we saw in the paper cited by you may be a hidden factor running as common narrative in Bahá’í religion. Or it may be an isolated opinion of a smart-*** academician. I truly do not know.
But, I have reasons to believe that @adrian009, @Jim and others have wholesome thoughts.
YMMV.
Yes. We must see the actual context. It will also clear up whether there is any proselytism angle or not.
I found discussions on the subject here:
Baha'u'llah and the Return of Krishna
I think the problem pertains to Bahá’í use of a non Sruti element of Hinduism and extrapolating upon that.
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Jim
Nets of Wonder
@ajay0 @atanu
Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
About halfway down the page. This paragraph;
Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
About halfway down the page. This paragraph;
Jim
Nets of Wonder
You choose to think that I’m lying about my intentions, and then you blame me for misunderstanding what I’m saying.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
No. That is not what Bahais say. They say that Hinduism is a part of Bahaiism and stands rejected, as the new message has been brought by Bahaullah.
That cannot be Vinayaka, since success in election in India means power to do what they want, and it involves millions and billions of Rupees in bribes and commissions. It is not a game of Rugby or Ice-hockey among friends.
So do I. Intentions are not ill, just different than ours.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Views about that might diverge among Baha’is as widely as they do in all the rest of society. The only views that have any authority for most Baha’is are those of Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. You can see what their views on Hinduism are by searching for “Hinduism” in the Bahai Reference Library and looking for results from those authors.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
Okay, it is now clear you have misunderstood it.
Shoghi Effendi simply got carried away by hero worship, that he, rightly or wrongly, addressed Bahaullah as Maitreya and the tenth avatar in Hinduism.
The bhagavad gita does talk about the phenomenon of the Avatar, but nothing related to Bahaullah specifically. Some scriptures does talk about the Kalki avatar in the Kali Yuga, who will be the tenth avatar.
Shoghi Effendi probably added Bahaullah as the tenth avatar out of enthusiasm and zeal in reference to the scriptuures that talk about the tenth Kalki avatar in the Kali Yuga or modern time period. This is all there is to it, though he technically erred in stating that the Bhagavad Gita stated thus.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
There are monotheistic Dharmic religions like Sikhism, and monotheistic Hindu sects like the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, Lingayats, Brahmo Samajis, Arya Samajis which are similar to the monotheism of the Abrahamic religions, and have similar themes like the Bahais.
The Kabir Panthis, also a monotheistic sect in Hinduism with around 10 million adherents, also worship a single incorporeal God.
Where spring, the lord of seasons reigneth, there the unstruck music sounds of itself, There the streams of light flow in all directions, few are the men who can cross to that shore! There, where millions of Krishnas stand with hands folded, Where millions of Vishnus bow their heads, where millions of Brahmas are reading the Vedas, Where millions of Shivas are lost in contemplation, where millions of Indras dwell in the sky, Where the demi-gods and the munis are unnumbered, where millions of Saraswatis, goddess of music play the vina, There is my Lord self-revealed, and the scent of sandal and flowers dwells in those deeps.
— Kabir, II.57
There is nothing wrong in pointing out the similarities between the bahai religion and Dharmic monotheism, if the objective is to increase mutual understanding and cooperation and not merely to reinforce racial and religious prejudices as some misguided people had done in the past.
The Kabir Panthis, also a monotheistic sect in Hinduism with around 10 million adherents, also worship a single incorporeal God.
Where spring, the lord of seasons reigneth, there the unstruck music sounds of itself, There the streams of light flow in all directions, few are the men who can cross to that shore! There, where millions of Krishnas stand with hands folded, Where millions of Vishnus bow their heads, where millions of Brahmas are reading the Vedas, Where millions of Shivas are lost in contemplation, where millions of Indras dwell in the sky, Where the demi-gods and the munis are unnumbered, where millions of Saraswatis, goddess of music play the vina, There is my Lord self-revealed, and the scent of sandal and flowers dwells in those deeps.
— Kabir, II.57
There is nothing wrong in pointing out the similarities between the bahai religion and Dharmic monotheism, if the objective is to increase mutual understanding and cooperation and not merely to reinforce racial and religious prejudices as some misguided people had done in the past.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I’m glad for you that you were able to satisfy yourself so easily.
Thanks for telling me about it.
Yeah. Found it.
So, IMO, it is not about Shri Krishna particularly. It is about a descent of God in form of Bahá'u'lláh. The author relates that to foretelling of such descent from various scriptures.
It is also somewhat like the Sahasranama-s (thousand names) of deities prevalent in Hinduism.
There is a problem here. Gita has nothing for speculation. It is a scripture that is considered to be a summary of Upanishads and is nearly equal in value to them. Upanishads are considered Sruti - "that which is heard" and are considered to be infallible, being of divine origin. Shri Krishna mentions in Gita that God descends from time to time. But I do not know of prediction of a 10th avatar in Gita.
Those mythical aspects are the subject of Purana-s and 'avatar' is particular story of Bhagavat Purana - a Vaishnav scripture. Puranas are not Sruti. Although Puranas are also considered revelations, they cannot contradict Sruti.
So, I will say that Shoghi Effendi's writing cannot be considered revelation but is more of poetic praise. Everyone of us in essence is That. In a few the essence shines bright. Bahá'u'lláh might have been such. I do not know.
We takle it by changing our own self and when we have all the virtues, we become a light for others.
Thus each victory we have over self, to gain virtue, will assist others to find that light within their own self.
Regards Tony