I have some deep question about God, help!

A94 · Feb 19, 2019

dybmh said:
Follow up question: Is there something in current events or your personal life that is involved in your search for understanding?

Most people come to a point in their lives when they naturally ask the same questions you are asking.

Knowing a little more about you and your situation might be helpful for me and others in answering your questions.

No event has really brought this on, I've been a christian believer my whole life, and these questions always came to mind. Never really thought to tear them apart until recently. I dont like constantly wondering and worrying about these things.
I've also, over the years, had a few people interested in God and christianity ask me these things, and I can never answer them. I would like to be able to.

Audie · Feb 19, 2019

WalterTrull said:
This makes me so sad.

In a way, it makes me sad. It would be nice if all the
wonderful promises were true.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 19, 2019

As tiny and insignificant as we are in the grand scheme of things, what makes you think god cares about us minuscule critters on a speck of iron hurtling through space?

nPeace · Feb 19, 2019

A94 said:
No event has really brought this on, I've been a christian believer my whole life, and these questions always came to mind. Never really thought to tear them apart until recently. I dont like constantly wondering and worrying about these things.
I've also, over the years, had a few people interested in God and christianity ask me these things, and I can never answer them. I would like to be able to.

Personally, I think it's a good thing you at least appreciate the Bible... if you do. It's a start. Many appreciate that the Bible contains practical guidance for life.
That is one reason, it's the number one most read, and translated book in the world.
Sadly, many read it, but still many do not apply what they read, but for the most part, the blame lies in the fact that they fall victim to what the apostle Paul warned against - 1 Corinthians 15:33

Grammerllama · Feb 19, 2019

Well, we're at a religious paradox, m'dude.

My answer? Hell is a made up concept used to control the masses using fear. Same with heaven, controlling everyone with a reward no one can prove or disprove. If the verse "That god so loved the world" etc etc is true, and he truly loves the world, then, a) hell doesn't exist, and b) there wouldn't be suffering. I mean, it's like being a parent and saying you love your kid but won't stop them from running into the middle of the road.

And on the matter of Satan: because Satan exists, He makes god evil. Think about it. God created everything and knows everything. So god created Satan knowing He will have the capacity to do evil AND knowing that Satan WOULD do evil. God created Satan so that none of the evil-stuff gets blamed on him.

In my opinion, god isn't all loving- not even close. Even if only his chosen gets saved, then why do Christians or however we are referencing gets sick? Have cancer? Get mugged? Killed? Why put your people through evil things if they are already saved? Not to mention the rest of the world, which the Bible says was created in his own image as his children.

But hey, I might just be playing Devil's advocate.

dybmh · Feb 19, 2019

A94 said:
No event has really brought this on, I've been a christian believer my whole life, and these questions always came to mind. Never really thought to tear them apart until recently. I dont like constantly wondering and worrying about these things.
I've also, over the years, had a few people interested in God and christianity ask me these things, and I can never answer them. I would like to be able to.

OK. Thank you for this. It is very helpful.

I'm going to spend some time thinking about your questions and doing some research before responding further.

nPeace · Feb 19, 2019

@A94, some people think that God created Satan, but what I got from my study of the Bible, is that God created thousands of spirit beings, all good.
One of them rebelled - opposing and slandering God, earning the name Satan, which means Resister, or Opposer, and Devil, which means slanderer.
That would mean that the angel chose to become Satan

The way I see it, it's like a boy born to his parents. If after growing up, the boy chose to be a drug pusher, we would not say the mother bore, or gave birth to a drug pusher. We know she gave birth to a baby boy.
So God created an angel - not Satan. The angel made himself Satan.

JChnsc19 · Feb 19, 2019

I can answer all your ?s in 1 sentence.

There is no god (this is based on not seeing any credible evidence for any god in whatever religion)

Go watch The Atheist Experience on YouTube for a week straight. You’ll feel like you’ve woke up in a different universe & you’ll free yourself

nPeace · Feb 19, 2019

My... When it comes to answering questions about God, guess who has the most answers?

Atheists

Go figure.

Tiberius · Feb 19, 2019

A94 said:
Hello,
I have some questions, that I can't find the answers to. (I'm still learning.)
I've been studying and asking God to show me answers to these questions, and yet I'm still so lost.
Hoping someone can help me out a little.

If God is all-loving, why is there a hell, and why do people constantly die needlessly and innocently?
(E.G. People dying of horrific things like being merely beaten to death by someone they never even knew, or suddenly contracting illness? Or dying of starvation, because they're so poor and couldn't get help? There are worse innocent deaths that happen all the time, but I'd rather not make this too graphic. You get the picture.)

Also, why is there a hell? The punishment of hells pain, torture and eternal fire is so sickening to think of. And thinking of the people who will go there, simply because they never knew God, or just happened to get caught up in something wrong, for a time and died. Eternal pain is the worst thing to experience. How is this love?
The bible states that his love is unconditional, but this seems to be a very conditional situation, to me. I'm confused.

If God is perfect and omnipotent, why does this all even exist? Can't he just wipe it all out, and destroy satan?
He is perfect, yet a mistake was made when satan was allowed to come in and interfere in the garden of eden, was it not? Should he not have interfered, then?
Also, being all-knowing, should he not have seen this all coming and prevented it?
Why would he chose to let us live in a world like this?
Also, how is having a choice between God, a perfect heaven of fluffy clouds vs. Eternal suffering and burning free will? It seems like a very forced choice to me, because who in their right mind would choose the latter?
I know the bible says in the end times God will do his final justice once and for all and make things right. However, that will still involve a lot of people going to hell, and I don't understand why he must let us suffer this way, until then.

Not looking to argue or get into anything, as religious discussions tend to go... just really, honestly looking for answers.
Hoping someone can help me understand these things.
Thank you.

I think the statement "God doesn't exist" answers all of those questions.

JChnsc19 · Feb 19, 2019

Tiberius said:
I think the statement "God doesn't exist" answers all of those questions.

word

blü 2 · Feb 20, 2019

A94 said:
If God is all-loving, why is there a hell, and why do people constantly die needlessly and innocently?

Gods are not real. They exist only in imagination and are social constructs. Thus the Bronze Age god of the early bible is happy to order invasive war, massacres, mass rapes, human sacrifice, slavery, denigration of women, and so on, and to acknowledge that there are other gods, and to be violently intolerant of their followers as such. Then, after the Babylonian captivity, [he] becomes a monogod, and says

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.

because with a monogod there's no other possibility. Only with Jesus do we get the God Is Love notion, and that only applies those who believe in Jesus ─ which you'll recognize as the old salesman's ploy of convincing the customers they have a disorder that only my snake oil can save them from.

So the Christian hell is a confusion of those ideas plus the Christian right's cherished dream that they'll watch all their critics burn horribly in hell for eternity.

A94 said:
If God is perfect and omnipotent, why does this all even exist? Can't he just wipe it all out, and destroy satan?

The god who's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and perfect is an ideal, a dream of perfect justice wielding perfect power with perfect knowledge.

The problem is that 'perfect justice' varies depending on your culture and your politics. And it's always the people you disagree with who are wrong.

Trailblazer · Feb 20, 2019

A94 said:
Hello,
I have some questions, that I can't find the answers to. (I'm still learning.)
I've been studying and asking God to show me answers to these questions, and yet I'm still so lost.
Hoping someone can help me out a little.

If God is all-loving, why is there a hell, and why do people constantly die needlessly and innocently?
(E.G. People dying of horrific things like being merely beaten to death by someone they never even knew, or suddenly contracting illness? Or dying of starvation, because they're so poor and couldn't get help? There are worse innocent deaths that happen all the time, but I'd rather not make this too graphic. You get the picture.)

Also, why is there a hell? The punishment of hells pain, torture and eternal fire is so sickening to think of. And thinking of the people who will go there, simply because they never knew God, or just happened to get caught up in something wrong, for a time and died. Eternal pain is the worst thing to experience. How is this love?
The bible states that his love is unconditional, but this seems to be a very conditional situation, to me. I'm confused.

If God is perfect and omnipotent, why does this all even exist? Can't he just wipe it all out, and destroy satan?
He is perfect, yet a mistake was made when satan was allowed to come in and interfere in the garden of eden, was it not? Should he not have interfered, then?
Also, being all-knowing, should he not have seen this all coming and prevented it?
Why would he chose to let us live in a world like this?
Also, how is having a choice between God, a perfect heaven of fluffy clouds vs. Eternal suffering and burning free will? It seems like a very forced choice to me, because who in their right mind would choose the latter?
I know the bible says in the end times God will do his final justice once and for all and make things right. However, that will still involve a lot of people going to hell, and I don't understand why he must let us suffer this way, until then.

Not looking to argue or get into anything, as religious discussions tend to go... just really, honestly looking for answers.
Hoping someone can help me understand these things.
Thank you.

I do not have much time right now, but I just happened to see this thread in passing. Why there is so much suffering in the world if a benevolent God exists is a big question that would take some time to answer.

But for now, regarding the afterlife, I do not believe in the heaven and hell as depicted in the Bible. I suggest you read the following books. The first one is short and you can read it online but the other one you have to buy although you can preview it on the Amazon website:

Private Dowding
The Afterlife Revealed

loverofhumanity · Feb 20, 2019

A94 said:
Hello,
I have some questions, that I can't find the answers to. (I'm still learning.)
I've been studying and asking God to show me answers to these questions, and yet I'm still so lost.
Hoping someone can help me out a little.

If God is all-loving, why is there a hell, and why do people constantly die needlessly and innocently?
(E.G. People dying of horrific things like being merely beaten to death by someone they never even knew, or suddenly contracting illness? Or dying of starvation, because they're so poor and couldn't get help? There are worse innocent deaths that happen all the time, but I'd rather not make this too graphic. You get the picture.)

Also, why is there a hell? The punishment of hells pain, torture and eternal fire is so sickening to think of. And thinking of the people who will go there, simply because they never knew God, or just happened to get caught up in something wrong, for a time and died. Eternal pain is the worst thing to experience. How is this love?
The bible states that his love is unconditional, but this seems to be a very conditional situation, to me. I'm confused.

If God is perfect and omnipotent, why does this all even exist? Can't he just wipe it all out, and destroy satan?
He is perfect, yet a mistake was made when satan was allowed to come in and interfere in the garden of eden, was it not? Should he not have interfered, then?
Also, being all-knowing, should he not have seen this all coming and prevented it?
Why would he chose to let us live in a world like this?
Also, how is having a choice between God, a perfect heaven of fluffy clouds vs. Eternal suffering and burning free will? It seems like a very forced choice to me, because who in their right mind would choose the latter?
I know the bible says in the end times God will do his final justice once and for all and make things right. However, that will still involve a lot of people going to hell, and I don't understand why he must let us suffer this way, until then.

Not looking to argue or get into anything, as religious discussions tend to go... just really, honestly looking for answers.
Hoping someone can help me understand these things.
Thank you.

In our Faith hell is to be far from God and heaven is to be near Him which means that to try and obey God we would create a heaven on earth and to flagrantly ignore His laws such as love we would create a hell on earth. It is our call which we choose as God doesn’t force us to accept His Ways.

He gave us life and then offered us the best way to be happy through sending Prophets with counsels and teachings. We chose our own ways. We chose WW1 and WW2 not God. We could have chosen world peace but we didn’t We choose to make money and material things our God so we made the bed and society we now sleep in.

Our fate is in our own hands. I keep away from drugs, alcohol, crime, violence, vice and so on according to the counsels of my religion and my life is a heaven but my nephew down the road lives in hell because he has chosen alcohol, gambling and constant vice so he finds himself never happy. That’s his choice and that’s my choice.each has its consequence good or bad.

It’s the same for what kind of society we want a spiritual society or a materialistic one where only profit and possessions matter? In a materialistically dominated selfish society things like war, violence, crime, rape, suicide, drug addiction abound but in spiritual societies which choose to live virtuously they have much better quality of life in leaps and bounds and peace, love and joy. It’s our choice whether as an individual or a society we want to have God in our life or not, His Ways or our ways.

It’s like we are ill and the doctor offers us a cure but we reject it. That’s not the doctors fault is it?

Trailblazer · Feb 20, 2019

JChnsc19 said:
There is no god (this is based on not seeing any credible evidence for any god in whatever religion)

Atheists claim to be logical but they don't think things through.....
Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with evidence.
Evidence is just what people want in order to determine if God exists so in a way this is very self-centered....

God either exists or not.
God could exist and provide no evidence of His existence.
God did provide evidence but atheists do not like the evidence God provides and they say "it's not evidence.'
However, the fact that atheists don't like the evidence does not mean it is not evidence.

I do not know why people cannot understand this, it is so obvious this is what is going on. Recently i was told I assume too much about what people can understand because I have an advanced degree in psychology. Maybe that's it or maybe people just cannot think logically.

JChnsc19 · Feb 20, 2019

Trailblazer said:
Atheists claim to be logical but they don't think things through.....
Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with evidence.
Evidence is just what people want in order to determine if God exists so in a way this is very self-centered....

God either exists or not.
God could exist and provide no evidence of His existence.
God did provide evidence but atheists do not like the evidence God provides and they say "it's not evidence.'
However, the fact that atheists don't like the evidence does not mean it is not evidence.

I do not know why people cannot understand this, it is so obvious this is what is going on. Recently i was told I assume too much about what people can understand because I have an advanced degree in psychology. Maybe that's it or maybe people just cannot think logically.

What evidence don't we like?

ratiocinator · Feb 20, 2019

Trailblazer said:
Evidence is just what people want in order to determine if God exists so in a way this is very self-centered....

Why is that self-centred? It's a completely rational approach to any question about objective (intersubjective) reality.

Trailblazer said:
God either exists or not.
God could exist and provide no evidence of His existence.

Yes, but that doesn't stop the rational approach to no evidence being unbelief.

Added: Oh, and it isn't a question of "God either exists or not." - there are many, many different and often mutually exclusive god-ideas.

Trailblazer said:
God did provide evidence but atheists do not like the evidence God provides and they say "it's not evidence.'
However, the fact that atheists don't like the evidence does not mean it is not evidence.

Evidence is some objective observation or experiment that can be done about which the hypothesis states there will be one outcome and other hypotheses say differently. In other words, what is needed is some aspect of the objective world that would only be true if the god-hypothesis is correct.

So, what is this evidence?

In fact, where is the slightest hint of a reason to take the idea of god(s) at all seriously?

Trailblazer · Feb 20, 2019

JChnsc19 said:
What evidence don't we like?

You do not like the Messengers God sends and the religions they reveal.

ratiocinator · Feb 20, 2019

Trailblazer said:
You do not like the Messengers God sends and the religions they reveal.

The world and its history are full of people who claim to speak for various gods (not to mention those with other supernatural or paranormal claims). They often contradict each other and cannot possibly all be right. In fact, at least most of them must be wrong.

There is no objective evidence, that I'm aware of, that any of them were correct. The perfectly reasonable alternative hypothesis, that fits the evidence far better, is that people have a tendency to believe in unseen influences and detect agency, where there is none (see: agent detection). Rather like the reason we 'see' faces in clouds and fires...

Trailblazer · Feb 20, 2019

ratiocinator said:
Why is that self-centred? It's a completely rational approach to any question about objective (intersubjective) reality.

It is the rational approach and there is nothing wrong with that. We should approach everything rationally. That is why God gave us a rational mind. It is self-centered because it is based upon what you want.

ratiocinator said:
“God could exist and provide no evidence of His existence.”
Yes, but that doesn't stop the rational approach to no evidence being unbelief.

I cannot argue with that. I probably would not even be thinking about God if I had no reason to and I would not believe without any evidence.

ratiocinator said:
Added: Oh, and it isn't a question of "God either exists or not." - there are many, many different and often mutually exclusive god-ideas.

God ideas are not God; they are just ideas about God. There is only One True God, not a bunch of different gods, but there are a lot of ideas about God because there are a lot of religions.

ratiocinator said:
Evidence is some objective observation or experiment that can be done about which the hypothesis states there will be one outcome and other hypotheses say differently. In other words, what is needed is some aspect of the objective world that would only be true if the god-hypothesis is correct.

That is the kind of evidence you have for what exists in the material world, scientific evidence, but God does not exist in the material world so you cannot obtain that kind of evidence for God. You have to approach it indirectly. How God reveals Himself to us is the only evidence we can ever have.

ratiocinator said:
So, what is this evidence?

The Messengers of God; what they did and wrote and the effect they had upon humanity.

ratiocinator said:
In fact, where is the slightest hint of a reason to take the idea of god(s) at all seriously?

I would take God seriously because religions exist and they did not drop out of the sky. There is an explanation as to why some religions appear to be man-made, but it’s very late here so I would have to explain that later if you want to know.

I have some deep question about God, help!

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