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Religious Faith - Inclusive or exclusive of other Faiths?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Christianity has been a significant factor in many wars and I wouldn't be suprised if Matthew 10:34-36 has been twisted to support a Christian crusade or two.

Loving one's enemies would preclude such an action.

John 15:18-21 provides insight to the true cause of the seperation. Many will reject their Christian brethren and family members simply being Christian. It doesn't mean that Christians should reject their non-Christian family members and associates.

I don't see where Jesus said we should reject non believing family members....I have many.
We just don't have anything in common spiritually speaking. It doesn't mean I have nothing to do with them.

That sums up the holier than thou attitude of fundamentalist religionists well, whether they be Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.

Having nothing in common with someone makes for lousy friendships.....religion or otherwise.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Loving one's enemies would preclude such an action.

The point is that so called religious leaders can twist a message of love into one of hate.

I don't see where Jesus said we should reject non believing family members

He didn't.

Having nothing in common with someone makes for lousy friendships.....religion or otherwise.

Maybe its about trying harder to find common ground.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The point is that so called religious leaders can twist a message of love into one of hate.

Jesus said that those who claim to be his disciples had to be "doing the will of the Father", or they were not acceptable to him. Religious leaders in Jesus' day had twisted the word of God all out of shape and he told them in no uncertain terms what he thought about what they taught. They might be able to mislead humans but they can't fool God. (Matthew 7:21-23) Those who love God, obey his Christ in everything.

He didn't.

We don't either. Jesus' own siblings were not believers until after his death and resurrection. Do you think he withdrew association with his fleshly family because of that?

As he was dying, Jesus entrusted the care of his mother to the apostle John, not to the second oldest brother. This shows that his primary concern was for his mother's spiritual welfare, rather than just her physical well being.
I have many family members who are not Christians or who belong to denominations of Christendom....it doesn't mean that I reject them or avoid their company. We just naturally gravitate to those who share common interests.

Maybe its about trying harder to find common ground.
That is indeed what we do when we engage in the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his followers. (Matthew 28:19-20) Common ground is usually the desire for peace and security in the world. This, more so than any other topic, is what concerns many people today.....they are drawn to the Bible's message of hope for peace in the world....one that does not depend on the whims of capricious humans to carry out.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Jesus said that those who claim to be his disciples had to be "doing the will of the Father", or they were not acceptable to him. Religious leaders in Jesus' day had twisted the word of God all out of shape and he told them in no uncertain terms what he thought about what they taught. They might be able to mislead humans but they can't fool God. (Matthew 7:21-23) Those who love God, obey his Christ in everything.

We both know the bible and follow Christ in our own ways @Deeje

Obviously we have different Faiths that are based on the same bible but we have different theologies. We both see our faiths as being true and the best representation of God's will for today. I will not convince you to become a Baha'i anymore than you will convince me to become a JW. There are aspects of my faith that you strongly disagree with as there are aspects of your faith I disagree with. That being said, I can see you are sincere in your belief, have spent a great deal of time studying the bible and the history around it.

We don't either. Jesus' own siblings were not believers until after his death and resurrection. Do you think he withdrew association with his fleshly family because of that?

As he was dying, Jesus entrusted the care of his mother to the apostle John, not to the second oldest brother. This shows that his primary concern was for his mother's spiritual welfare, rather than just her physical well being.
I have many family members who are not Christians or who belong to denominations of Christendom....it doesn't mean that I reject them or avoid their company. We just naturally gravitate to those who share common interests.

Interestingly Mary is seen as being the greatest woman in the Christian dispensation by the Catholics, Muslims, and Baha'is.

Mary, mother of Jesus - Wikipedia

I'm pleased you do not reject or shun your relatives who do not share your faith. I've seen this in many families, particularly some of the more evangelical churches. I've seen a member of my own family become the most horrible judgmental person when she became part of an Assembly of God church and we were all relieved when she left the church.

That is indeed what we do when we engage in the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his followers. (Matthew 28:19-20) Common ground is usually the desire for peace and security in the world. This, more so than any other topic, is what concerns many people today.....they are drawn to the Bible's message of hope for peace in the world....one that does not depend on the whims of capricious humans to carry out.

I see that desire for peace in the world from peoples of good will in all Faiths.

My role on the interfaith council is not to tell everyone that my faith is the best and the others are all wrong. My role is to safegaurd and protect people's freedom of choice the religion they wish and that Faith communities should be free from persecution and bigotry.

The JWs have had a hard time in Russia. That's not OK.

After 9/11 there was understandably much misunderstanding and antipathy about Islam. Initially the Abrahamic Council was formed to build bridges between peoples of different faiths and that was extended to form the interfaith council that included other religions. I don't agree with everyone's beliefs but I think they have the right to be part of the faith they choose. As I take the time to associate with peoples of different faiths I see that we are not really that different as people and share many basic values. That association causes me to consider my own prejudices and that is a good thing.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
We both know the bible and follow Christ in our own ways @Deeje

Every soul on earth has the right of choice......God forces no one to believe in him or to serve his purpose. That is why judgment is fair. We choose our position and the outcome of our choice.

Obviously we have different Faiths that are based on the same bible but we have different theologies. We both see our faiths as being true and the best representation of God's will for today. I will not convince you to become a Baha'i anymore than you will convince me to become a JW. There are aspects of my faith that you strongly disagree with as there are aspects of your faith I disagree with. That being said, I can see you are sincere in your belief, have spent a great deal of time studying the bible and the history around it.

It was always my desire to know God and to understand what his purpose for humankind was in the beginning. Having ascertained that, everything then had to relate to that. The appearance of Jesus Christ was a key part of God's purpose and his promotion of God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind and the future of this planet is inextricably linked to it.

For this reason, I cannot see why God would send mixed messages to people in different locations on earth and in different eras, when none of world's supposed prophets promoted and shared the same message that Jesus did.

In the Lord's Prayer he listed what was to be our primary focus.....first, the prayer was addressed to "our Father".....the single entity who, as our Creator, was the most important head of the human family (including Jesus himself) The Father was in heaven, in contrast to humans on earth. We had been separated from him by sin, but God sent his son to mediate for us and to intercede on our behalf as God's appointed High Priest.

His name was to be "hallowed"....sanctified....set apart from all other 'gods'.....and their prophets. He revealed his name to his people who in later periods, stopped using it. God's people have always been associated with his name.

God's Kingdom was to "come"....not that we go to the Kingdom, but that it's rulership should "come" to us, and God's will was to "be done on earth as it is in heaven"....altering the way humans live on earth....forever.
Most Christians have heaven as their final destination. That was never part of God's original purpose.

This is why I cannot subscribe to interfaith movements. Beliefs are so different that they cannot be integrated or accommodated in God's purpose.

Interestingly Mary is seen as being the greatest woman in the Christian dispensation by the Catholics, Muslims, and Baha'is.

Mary, mother of Jesus - Wikipedia

I do not personally see Mary as anyone but God's choice as the one who, along with her husband, would raise his son in the Jewish faith. The angel Gabriel called Mary a "highly favoured one". There can be no doubt about Mary's qualifications for the job, but of necessity, a human woman had to be the vehicle through whom the son of God would come. If not Mary, then someone else of equal qualification would have been chosen.
It is not that Mary was more qualified or special than other women, but that she was God's choice. Her humility and devotion to her God were two of her most outstanding qualities.

I'm pleased you do not reject or shun your relatives who do not share your faith. I've seen this in many families, particularly some of the more evangelical churches. I've seen a member of my own family become the most horrible judgmental person when she became part of an Assembly of God church and we were all relieved when she left the church.

The Bible teaches us to "hate what Jehovah hates". God doesn't hate people....though he can hate what they do. So we can hate the sin but love the sinner too. As long as they are alive, people with the right heart condition, can change. We are not to judge them. God offers all an opportunity to change their ways....but it must be according to his word. Our brotherhood has many who were formerly engaged in conduct that would have disqualified them from becoming citizens of God's Kingdom. They turned their lives around and embraced the love and forgiveness that God held out to them.

I see that desire for peace in the world from peoples of good will in all Faiths.

Many of those people look to man for solutions to peace, as we see in the current situation. But God's Kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms which he will crush out of existence after failing monumentally with their last effort...globalisation. (Daniel 2:44)

My role on the interfaith council is not to tell everyone that my faith is the best and the others are all wrong. My role is to safegaurd and protect people's freedom of choice the religion they wish and that Faith communities should be free from persecution and bigotry.

That is a nice idea, but the Bible actually fortells that religion will be the first casualty of globalisation. The most divisive element in human existence will be seen as undesirable and the need to eliminate it will appear to be completely necessary in order to accomplish their goals.

The JWs have had a hard time in Russia. That's not OK.
Only God has the right to tell people what is good and bad for them. Injustice never sits well. None of us want our freedom curtailed but in order to carry out their own agenda, freedom will be sacrificed for an enforced peace....which is not really peace at all.

After 9/11 there was understandably much misunderstanding and antipathy about Islam. Initially the Abrahamic Council was formed to build bridges between peoples of different faiths and that was extended to form the interfaith council that included other religions.

The truth about 9/11 will eventually come out and people will probably be shocked and disgusted by it. The fact that fundamental factions of Islam radicalise vulnerable people and convince them to carry out atrocities will never allow Islam to have a positive profile, but fundamentalism when taken to extremes in any religious context involving bloodshed is to be condemned.

To my way of thinking, followers of Jesus Christ cannot ever shed blood for any reason and remain innocent in God's eyes. When Peter tried to defend Jesus on the night of his arrest, Jesus rebuked him and told him to put away his sword.
You cannot love your enemies with a weapon.

I don't agree with everyone's beliefs but I think they have the right to be part of the faith they choose. As I take the time to associate with peoples of different faiths I see that we are not really that different as people and share many basic values. That association causes me to consider my own prejudices and that is a good thing.

I don't see my role as someone who tells people that they can't be members of whatever religion they choose to be. The whole purpose behind the preaching work that Jesus began was to search for the "lost sheep". He castigated the Pharisees because they were misleading the Jewish nation. He said that they even made their procelytes candidates for 'gehenna' more so than themselves. (Matthew 23:13-33) Those who accepted what they taught were Jesus' enemies. His disciples suffered greatly because of misinformation disseminated by their enemies.

We have the same commission, as Jesus said....“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah on Judgment Day than for that city." (Matthew 10:11-15)

We offer the message...if it is received well, the peace of God will enter that household.....but if it is rejected, then we simply move on.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Every soul on earth has the right of choice......God forces no one to believe in him or to serve his purpose. That is why judgment is fair. We choose our position and the outcome of our choice.

We will all be judged by God @Deeje . There's an 'I'm right and your wrong flavour' to your whole post above. On reflection I've concluded that a detailed discussion will most likely be fruitless. As previously stated we agree to disagree. I wish you well.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
We will all be judged by God @Deeje

Yes, I agree...and God gives us the criteria through Jesus' teachings. We will not be able to offer excuses then.

There's an 'I'm right and your wrong flavour' to your whole post above.

That is probably because the 'flavour' is unpalatable to you Adrian. You prefer your own flavour and that is your right.
But Jesus wasn't there to correct a corrupted religious system, he was there to expose the lies, teach the truth, and to rescue the "lost sheep" that the shepherds had neglected.....they hated him enough to want him dead. He exposed their teachings as "the traditions of men" and said that false prophets would come into the world claiming to be the Christ. We need our wits about us when dealing with the greatest con artist in existence. (1 John 5:19)

On reflection I've concluded that a detailed discussion will most likely be fruitless. As previously stated we agree to disagree. I wish you well.

Whatever you think is fair. I wish you well also.
 
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