Do the Gods Probably Exist or Probably Not Exist?

Sunstone said:

It seems to me that most discussions of whether or not deity exists sooner or later end up in efforts to prove with deductive certainty that deity either does or does not exist, or at least cannot be determined to exist or not exist.

That's all very well and good, but in this thread, I would like to confine the discussion to whether or not the gods probably exist or probably do not exist. Now, I realize that, if speaking in strictly mathematical terms, the question makes little or no sense, but I am using the word "probably" here in its much loser popular sense of what is most likely to be the case, rather than in any strict mathematical sense.

In this thread, please be so kind as to avoid, just as sternly as you would normally avoid kissing a blipsnitch on its hairy lips, any and all "proofs" that the gods exist or not, or cannot be determined to exist or not. However, if you still itch with all the fires of ten extraordinarily passionate men or women to discuss such things, please start your own thread.

Do the gods probably exist or do they probably not exist? That is the question. What say you, kind sir or madam, upon that heading?

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What is blipsnitch?

Example in the newspaper here a holy tree was cut down the man who made the decision to cut said tree down died in a motorbike accident 2 years post tree cutting down the the Banan tree. Temple leaders say it was the wrath of the gods who prophesied it to happen to the man.

Or he just got in an accident and happened to die in it.

Or saying Israel will be a nation on it's own. The Israeli pushed for sovereignty for decades, they got it, was the prophecy true?

The world will end eventually engulfed in the flames of a supernova or an asteroid or other apocalyptic calamitous event, do the prophecies saying the end times are coming true? They are so broadly worded they can claim most every day events as their prophecy being inspired by god because it happened.

Cacotopia said:

Example in the newspaper here a holy tree was cut down the man who made the decision to cut said tree down died in a motorbike accident 2 years post tree cutting down the the Banan tree. Temple leaders say it was the wrath of the gods who prophesied it to happen to the man.

Or he just got in an accident and happened to die in it.

Or saying Israel will be a nation on it's own. The Israeli pushed for sovereignty for decades, they got it, was the prophecy true?

The world will end eventually engulfed in the flames of a supernova or an asteroid or other apocalyptic calamitous event, do the prophecies saying the end times are coming true? They are so broadly worded they can claim most every day events as their prophecy being inspired by god because it happened.

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Some prophecies are broad and some are more specific. Also, Bible prophecies have been interpreted differently by differ people, especially those of different religions, since they try to make them fit to what they want them to mean, such as that Jesus is going to return on a cloud from the sky with trumpets and angels and everyone will see Him.

Many Bible prophecies are symbolic, not literal. For example, clouds does not mean literal clouds but rather the term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men, so in that sense judgment is clouded and people are veiled from seeing the truth.

Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these clouds hindered Christians from recognizing the return of Christ.

Some Old Testament prophecies that refer to the Messiah refer to geographical locations, things we can research and verify the existence of. For example, all the following prophecies have came to pass since the second half of the 19th century when Baha’u’llah declared that He was the Messiah, the return of Christ, and there are many, more prophecies like these that have been fulfilled. But because Christians are waiting for Jesus to come down out of the sky, they have been veiled from recognizing Baha’u’llah as the Messiah they have been waiting for.

"The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose." (Isaiah 35:1)

“It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2)

"Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." (Isaiah 35:6)

"And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes." (Isaiah 35:7)

"And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein." (Isaiah 35:8)

This is why the written word is a poor tool to convey information. You have no arbiter for the meaning of your bible.

Cacotopia said:

This is why the written word is a poor tool to convey information. You have no arbiter for the meaning of your bible.

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That has been a big problem since the very beginning. Everyone disagreed as to what the Bible meant and nobody understood much of what it meant. However, that was prophesied by Daniel:

Daniel Chapter 12: 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The early Church fathers interpreted the Bible the way they did because they could not fully understand it. The "Book" was intended to be sealed up until the time of the end, the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The 2,300 years was up in 1844 and the book was unsealed.

That means we can now understand the general meaning the Bible sought to convey. It does not mean that we can know what every verse in the Bible means, but we can know what we need to know, particularly what the prophecies mean. All the other details are not important to know because we now have a “new” revelation from God, the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

“Time of the end” never meant the end of the world, one thing Christians have misunderstood. It meant end of an Age. Muhammad was called the Seal of the Prophets because He was the last Prophet in the Adamic Cycle (Prophetic Cycle) and thus He sealed off that Cycle.

In 1844 the Bab and Baha’u’llah, the “twin” Manifestations of God, ushered in a new Cycle of religion and the Age of Fulfillment. All the “new age” movements and all the scientific discoveries we have seen since the 19th century are the result of the inception of this new Cycle, this New Age that we are now living in.