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Did you see God?

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Partly. It would be a very good start if you could give me a definition of 'God' so that if one crosses my path and speaks to me, I'll be able to tell for certain it was a God and not just a fellow human or the product of my imagination.

Until you can define a real god for me in that fashion, unfortunately I won't know what we're talking about here.

But once we have the definition, we'll be able to test all claims and if you're right we'll be able to examine an example of a real God. (By real I mean one with objective existence, not imaginary.)

Then ─ for the first time ─ the existence of gods will be a matter of examinable evidence and not merely faith / imagination.

I could define God to the best of my ability, and the definition would be incredibly weak. A finite person defining the infinite to another finite person would make an interesting conversation.
But the other person in the conversation would need some interest.
That is not the case here, so I will heed the words of my God from Matthew 7:6.
It’s not against you, just not the appropriate place due to the nature of the forum.
Should you have a true interest in the subject it would not be difficult to find someone to sit down with for a conversation.
I wish all the best should you actually seek to know.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
You sound like my older brother who claims that the aliens in the mother ship orbiting earth talk to him all of the time. He keeps telling me that I need to be 'ready' when they reveal themselves to humanity - which surprisingly has been imminent for the past 20 years. It's amazing what people are capable of deluding themselves into believing is real and how if they start searching for 'signs' of their belief that they always inevitably find them.
Want to take a bet on who make themselves public first? Jesus or the aliens? If the aliens show up first Jesus will have to fight hard for attention...
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
See my previous post.
Of all the Christians and other God believers I have encountered who claim to have regular conversations with God and talk to him face to face, not a single person has ever produced a sentence or even a single word from such a conversation.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Of all the Christians and other God believers I have encountered who claim to have regular conversations with God and talk to him face to face, not a single person has ever produced a sentence or even a single word from such a conversation.
Read Matthew 7:6 and honestly tell me that you are truly interested. Not just wanting ammunition to use negatively.
I truly don’t sense any honest interest on your part in understanding how to find God, but if you have true interest you will find him. After reading Matthew 7:6, read the next verse too. Most likely you will locate God without my help, since that is not something I am very good at. :(
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Because all truth and knowledge is available now, but people like you refuse to see.
Even if I played the recording and introduced you to God, you still would not see or hear.
You need to ask someone other than me for help. I don’t have the power to cure blindness and deafness. :rolleyes::eek:
Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Read Matthew 7:6 and honestly tell me that you are truly interested. Not just wanting ammunition to use negatively.
I truly don’t sense any honest interest on your part in understanding how to find God, but if you have true interest you will find him. After reading Matthew 7:6, read the next verse too. Most likely you will locate God without my help, since that is not something I am very good at. :(
I'm not interested in "locating" or "finding" any god personally. I think all people who claim to have conversations with God should record these conversations and publish them on YouTube or make written transcripts and publish them online for all to see. We could collect all this information and use AI to pick out the people who are best at it and are genuine, give them courses in how to formulate their questions to obtain the most useful answers... there's no limit to the knowledge we could obtain from a god if we just had people especially trained to obtain it. There would be no greater assets to humanity than people able to get information from gods. Unfortunately I have never come across a single person who has been willing to share even a few sentences of their conversations and you wouldn't believe all the excuses I have heard. Including you of course.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I could define God to the best of my ability, and the definition would be incredibly weak. A finite person defining the infinite to another finite person would make an interesting conversation.
Alas, without that definition we're still in trouble.

And as for 'infinite', if you mean he has unbounded powers, then the track record attributed to him on earth suggests no such thing ─ Yahweh couldn't handle iron chariots, you'll recall (Judges 1:19), let alone prevent the destruction of the Temple, the pogroms of history, the Inquisition, the Reformation, the Thirty Years War, the two World Wars including the Holocaust, on and on.

And he still can't heal amputees. The reason that's so often used as a barb is because it's true.
But the other person in the conversation would need some interest.
That is not the case here, so I will heed the words of my God from Matthew 7:6.
I'm genuinely surprised at this response. I've shown no lack of interest, and I took your intended audience to be exactly those who are skeptical, who have thought about things and don't believe. Yet the moment I put a skeptical view to you, you say in effect that you weren't talking to me.

Who were you intending to persuade with your argument, then? Only those who didn't need persuading?

And what do you make of your own position if you can't answer my question? It's not a trick question, after all, but it's a basic one. Surely there's a better response to it than looking away, if only for your own understanding?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
@Gerry talked about seeing and hearing things. Sure sounds to me like he was describing something physical.

He probably was "seeing and hearing" things in a spiritual or intuitive sense. If it was physical, then it could be recorded. This happened when Jesus was on earth and people recorded what he said in the Bible. My hypothesis is atheists hear or get ideas from the "god of the earth" in Satan. Readily available evidence is found in atheist science and some internet web sites where God has been eliminated. However, ideas leading to Communism have not.

As for God talking with believers, it is due to their faith. If one does not have faith, then they are spiritually dead and cannot receive God into their lives. What I do is post the Ben Piershale youtube, "My Evidence for an Unprovable God."
 
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james bond

Well-Known Member
Once again, you're talking about subjective personal interpretations that give you a reason to believe, but you are NOT talking about evidence in the usual sense of being objective.

You got it backwards. One has to take the leap of faith first. They have to believe first. Then a person will find God and deepen their faith, as well as find objective truth and knowledge.

For this to be evidence, you would first have to demonstrate what God is "like." You would have to show that God has a conscience, thoughts and emotions. And then you would have to show that humans are "like" God in those respects. And then you might have some evidence that God exists--except oops, it would really be kind of redundant, once you have already objectively demonstrated that God has a conscience, thoughts and emotions. How much more real would God have to be, once you had demonstrated that?

Even if I did convince you, then I would not have convinced all the other non-believers in the world. That is one big thing I learned from an atheist. Lawrence Krauss said he would reassess if God rearranged the stars to say, "I'm here." However, one atheist wrote that people on the other side of the planet would not see it and not be convinced. Even when people met Jesus, they did not keep their soft faith. They only believed him if he continued his favors or miracles. Thus, my thinking is the only way to convince non-believers is to constantly remind them of God's existence.

So can you demonstrate that God has a conscience, thoughts and emotions without begging the question (that is, without assuming that God exists to prove that He exists, by appealing to Bible stories or other claims of God's existence)?

You can best demonstrate that to yourself. Do you have a conscience, thoughts and emotions? Of course you do. How can you do that? It's because you are alive and well and your body is the temple of your spirit. If a baby is born without life, then we cannot provide life for them. If one is born without hearing or sight, then we cannot give them hearing and vision like that which the majority are born with. We may be able to assist them through technological and medical breakthroughs, but we cannot give them what God gives the majority. Even our best doctors and scientists state that what nature or God provides is the best.

Whether or not humans admire perfection would not be evidence of God even if it were true. It could just as easily be argued that humans evolved the admiration for perfection as a survival advantage. But in reality, we don't always admire perfection. Many people prefer the "imperfect" tones created by traditional musical instruments over the pure sine wave tones generated by synthesizers, for instance. Our processing of the visual field works better when there are "imperfections" in the field of view, rather than a perfect monochromatic display.

You're looking for irrefutable evidence and God doesn't work that way. If one takes the leap of faith, then you'll get the convincing evidence. With Christianity, the Bible will take on a deeper richer meaning. God has kept some things to himself such as the beginning and end of life and the universe. For example, we will never know the true age of the Earth in this life. We can only rationalize it based on one's worldview.

So again, not evidence.



Please demonstrate the existence of "spirit" (especially as it exists apart from nature) before you try to use it as evidence of God.



So your argument is that life has no meaning if there is no God? This may come as some surprise to those who don't believe in God; it certainly hasn't been a very convincing "evidence" if it could even be considered as such.

As for the rest, it's not that life has no meaning just because this life is finite and temporal. While it is difficult to live life in that we live in a fallen world, it is not meaningless to be remembered well by others or to help someone else's life become better. We can only do the best we can with the tools God gave each individual. If God gave one near perfection in talent, ability or skills, then they will do better than others. Where this life does not matter is when compared to the permanent life of the spiritual world and living with God. Then we will regain our perfect spiritual selves and live in God's kingdom, power and glory forever.

As for demonstrating the existence of spirit or one's life energy, it would be through living life. One usually takes it for granted that they are alive or that the sun rose in the morning. However, it is a big deal when one's health is lessened or taken away. Living becomes much more difficult. Or what if one day the sun didn't rise because the universe was shaken up. This is prophecized. Even science states that we live in a universe of increasing entropy, so the universe is not eternal.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The cure for cancer! You have a responsibility on behalf of the whole human race.
The ways are there. Anyone can get in touch with Gods. Most people are satisfied to live with falsehood. No, I do not have the responsibility for the whole human race. I decline it. People need to have guts to accept truth. Cancer is just one of those things which are necessary, or diabetes or heart diseases or war. People need to leave space for the new generation to move in. Part of life.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Sounds good... :)
Yeah, each one cares for his or her own lot. However, since I am a strong atheist, I can be on friendly terms with all of them. :D :D
Moreover, they are all nice-looking, whether fair or dark. No one has a long white beard except Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe and the writer of human fate, but people do not go to him often. Shiva, Vishnu and Mother Durga are more popular. Shiva's sons also are popular, Ganesha and Murugan, and so is the monkey-God Hanumana.
One has to take the leap of faith first. They have to believe first.
That way people fall in ditches. Never do that.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yeah, each one cares for his or her own lot. However, since I am a strong atheist, I can be on friendly terms with all of them. :D :D
Moreover, they are all nice-looking, whether fair or dark. No one has a long white beard except Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe and the writer of human fate, but people do not go to him often. Shiva, Vishnu and Mother Durga are more popular. Shiva's sons also are popular, Ganesha and Murugan, and so is the monkey-God Hanumana.
How can you be a strong atheist and also believe in Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe and the writer of human fate? o_O:confused:

I also like atheists and am on friendly terms with them, but I am not an atheist, I am a believer. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You are welcome. Most of my tribe (Hindus) also are believers including all in my family. I have no problem with theists. That is how their boat sails. When did I say that I believe what the theists believe about Lord Brahma? ;)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You got it backwards. One has to take the leap of faith first. They have to believe first. Then a person will find God and deepen their faith, as well as find objective truth and knowledge.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

Which means that God doesn't go away.

Thank you for posting what I would've said. Philip K. Dick was Episcopalian.

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Pudding

Well-Known Member
God is here with us, on the earth this very day.
God has walked right up to you, sometime, somewhere in your life, and said hello. But you missed it.
God will come again to you some day, somewhere. Maybe even today or tomorrow.
Bold statements without evidence to support its validity.
Did you expect God to have a really long beard and a long white robe and a golden staff in hand? Perhaps you need to start looking more closely.
If God exists, i'm not expect what he will look like, as i've no idea what he will look like. If God doesn't exists, then it's irrelevant what he look like.

If God exists, do you know what God look like?
Simply asking people to "start looking more closely" explains nothing about God's appearance.

(1)Please gives a complete details about what God look like.
(2)Please explain where and how do you find out what God look like.
(3)Please provide evidence to support the validity of God's appearance.
(4)Please provide evidence to support the validity of God's existence.
 
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