Do your beliefs make you happy?

PopeADope said:

I believe God is cruel because I see all of the misery and the confusion that he's perfectly capable of relieving that he chooses not to.

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The Biblical God represents a problem from Genesis to Revelation, and it is not just just the suffering that is allowed to take place.

My belief though, is that he makes something good and beautiful come out of our mistakes.

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I will agree to a certain extent, but not through the Biblical God, which only existed through the eyes of an ancient worldview, and those that cling to the past for a comfortable 'sense of community.'.

This also represents a rather idealistic and unrealistic view of the reality of ancient religions viewed through rose colored glasses.

I forgot to ask if your religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs ever cause you misery?

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Both, but religious beliefs, and their misuse cause more misery than the lack of religious beliefs.

If you belong to a system of beliefs where you believe that those who don't belong to your religion go to a place of eternal torment, I cannot fathom how such beliefs could make you happy.

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This represents your belief system of the Roman Church.

Grandliseur said:

I must say, at times I agree. But, then I am not as wise as he, and never shall be.

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That is the virtue I'm praying to aquire, the grace to believe I can't do things better.

If I was God I would heal the sick, give the needy money, speak clearly to the Heretics and unbelievers so that they would know the truth, and protect children from rapists and pedophiles. I'd speak to world leaders and tell them how they should run the government, while at the same time giving them free will to choose to disobey me. I wouldn't let any soul go to a place of Eternal torture like hell.

I think the world would be better... While at the same time I pray for the grace that I would not think of myself as knowing what's better for the world than God. So far I do not have that Grace.

Your beliefs aren't supposed to make you happy. You could take drugs for that.
The important thing to consider with beliefs is that they're correct.

PopeADope said:

I will add that I love God, I just don't like his choices

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This involves a paradox you have not resolved, and only exists when you believe in the Biblical God as the one who makes the choices,

shunyadragon said:

The Biblical God represents a problem from Genesis to Revelation, and it is not just just the suffering that is allowed to take place.



I will agree to a certain extent, but not through the Biblical God, which only existed through the eyes of an ancient worldview, and those that cling to the past for a comfortable 'sense of community.'.

This also represents a rather idealistic and unrealistic view of the reality of ancient religions viewed through rose colored glasses.



Both, but religious beliefs, and their misuse cause more misery than the lack of religious beliefs.



This represents your belief system of the Roman Church.

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Actually the Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach that all non Catholics are Damned. The church teaches no salvation outside of the church, but a soul could go to purgatory to be welcomed into the church and be saved , even if they weren't Catholic on Earth.

Valjean said:

Your beliefs aren't supposed to make you happy. You could take drugs for that.

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Agree, in some cases the belief is the drug,

The important thing to consider with beliefs is that they're correct.

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Problematic considering the many contradictory and conflicting beliefs where each claims to be the correct one, I am sure the believers in the different conflicting beliefs belief they are correct and in makes them happy and comfortable,

Honestly, it's my perspectives that makes me happy.

PopeADope said:

Actually the Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach that all non Catholics are Damned. The church teaches no salvation outside of the church, but a soul could go to purgatory to be welcomed into the church and be saved , even if they weren't Catholic on Earth.

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Delusions of self fulfilling illusions. The Roman Church indeed does have the doctrine of 'Salvation only through the ONE TRUE CHURCH, or "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus." This of course does not upfront say who or who not is save, because any person is capable of salvation until the moment of death, but nonetheless it does specifically describe the who is and who may not be saved within the Roman Church, and conditionally outside the Roman Church. It is clear if one has full knowledge of the One True Church and rejects being sincere member of the Church is not saved and condemned.

Juggling the books to make appear nice and comfortable does not work.

PopeADope said:

I believe God is cruel because I see all of the misery and the confusion that he's perfectly capable of relieving that he chooses not to.

My belief though, is that he makes something good and beautiful come out of our mistakes.

I forgot to ask if your religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs ever cause you misery?

If you belong to a system of beliefs where you believe that those who don't belong to your religion go to a place of eternal torment, I cannot fathom how such beliefs could make you happy.

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My beliefs make me happy and cause me suffering and grief also because that's reality and that's how it works.

I believe in a God who is just. Not just indiscriminately sending people to their eternal doom, but judging them according to their level of knowledge and what they had done both good and evil. So that they are rewarded for good and punished for evil. Yet, He is merciful and mercy rejoices against judgment. Unfortunately, ultimately, some people will definitely end up in bad places.

View all that misery and everything else you previously mentioned in the world as symptoms of the war going on in the spiritual realm between good and evil. Satan and his angels fought ... they continue to fight and the world is right now under a diabolic satanic conspiracy against the kingdom of heaven. It's been going on since the beginning and involves both angels and humans as well as other creatures. So the darkness has engulfed the whole world. I believe at the top the world is controlled by a luciferian high priesthood who answer to lucifer himself and his fallen angels.

But anyway, this world is not perfect because of this constant warfare and conspiracy on earth and in heaven. But, the thing that God is doing is amazing because creation is on going. It's not finished yet. If it were finished then maybe we could judge it as it is now. But, when God is finished we'll see how perfect it is. We haven't reached the 7th day of creation yet when God rested from ALL His work. God is already there because He's eternal and the future is present, but for us the 7th day is coming when we can rest with God also. Until then the battle rages on. The scripture tells us to overcome evil with good.

Why did God make it this way since He knew all things beforehand? To establish a reality of goodness. Good couldn't exist without evil first existing. Gold is purified in the fire and even though it's melted again and again it is only purer and purer. So that all the wisdom of God could be tried and so that's beauty would be known and established. Every question answered all arguments stilled. Every eventuality played out and shown to be good or bad. The good appreciated forever. Therefore evil exists temporarily until the 7th day comes when it will be gone. Yet, goodness will go on eternally exalted because evil once existed to try it. Without evil once existing: it would not be so. And the eternal city the new Jerusalem would not be. Everything will be tried with fire before it's added to the great eternal work of God: the new Jerusalem. Even the 12 gates of the city gigantic pearls are not created without irritation to the oyster. When she is finished; then God will rest in her as the 7th day will have come.


Even in our language we know that every river has a "river bed". So, God will be a River of Life in the new Jerusalem and He will rest in His love in His river bed.


Everything beautiful and good must come through the pain as even a child is born with birth pangs. The whole world travails in birth pangs waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. Job was attacked ruthlessly by satan so that he could be as gold tried in the furnace; and although he did not know it then: Job suffered for all of us who can benefit from his book. If he had not suffered then there would be no book of Job. Just so, if there was no suffering in the world now; then there could be no mercy shown. There could be no grace or forgiveness received or given without sin. So that from every wound possible for Satan to inflict on this creation from it can come eternal beauty and ecstasy; through the overflowing grace of God.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. (Isaiah 65:17-19)

PopeADope said:

When I first converted to Catholicism, my beliefs were not healthy at all. They did not make me happy.
I believed more than 90% of the world was in a state of mortal sin, and , that everyday Souls were falling into hell like leaves falling off trees. I believed that sin cried out to heaven for vengeance, and that God was punishing the world through Wars, famines, heresies, and disease.
I have since been cured of such views. But the belief in such things remains strangely prevalent among believers. If I chose to believe such things it would only make me miserable.
It is sad!
I don't like God very much. I think he's cruel. That's why it helps me to go to a saint or soul in heaven.
I choose to worship God, not because I like him or agree with him, but from the need of maturity, prudence, sobriety, healing, and guidance from a power wiser and stronger. Prayer has helped a lot. When I stop praying, the consequences are disastrous.
Just curious if your beliefs make you happy and why. Thanks!

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I really like your post and your struggle to think this through.

In terms of how we perceive the World this is this idea of objectivity versus subjectivity. Objectivity is a direct experience of reality where two people just experience the same event. For example, the sky is blue is an example of objective thought. Subjectivity is what our experiences mean. For example, the sky is pretty. Or the color blue makes me sad is a subjective thought.

When it comes to looking at the World, the way we experience meaning, is very much defined by our prejudice and bigotries. For most people, how we experience the World is exactly how we expect it to be. People behave exactly the way you expect them to be. The reason this works is the way the brain works. The brain filters out everything but your expectations of what you think you are supposed to see. The brain does this so it can react quicker to change by filling in missing pieces very quickly so you can concentrate on just the important stuff that is changing (like the lion jumping out of the high grass). The problem is, unless you are aware of how your brain works, how your subjective experience is programmed, then you will see the World in very dark way. But if you understand the subjective lenses of perception you can program them to be more positive. There's a saying that each of us, "creates our own reality." What this means is if you think the World is dark and full of curses then that is how you will experience the World. If, however, you think the World is full of joy and blessings then that is how you will experience the World. At any given time, there is an equal amount of evidence the World is dark and full of curses as there is it full of light and blessings. It really is up to you to choose the reality you wish to experience.

In terms of happiness, I have found two things that have given me the most happiness:
1. Helping other people experience happiness
2. Playing games of chance with a small group of friends around a dinner table.

I don't think God is cruel. I think God is the source of all our joys and happiness in the World.

PopeADope said:

Actually the Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach that all non Catholics are Damned. The church teaches no salvation outside of the church, but a soul could go to purgatory to be welcomed into the church and be saved , even if they weren't Catholic on Earth.

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To add this is not how Purgatory is described by the Roman Church, and I believe the view of the Roman Church has changed concerning Purgatory.

The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, first published in 2005, is a summary in dialogue form of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It deals with purgatory in the following exchange:[59]

210. What is purgatory?

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven.
211. How can we help the souls being purified in purgatory?

Because of the communion of saints, the faithful who are still pilgrims on earth are able to help the souls in purgatory by offering prayers in suffrage for them, especially the Eucharistic sacrifice. They also help them by alms giving, indulgences, and works of penance.

By doctrine Purgatory is not intended for non-believers.

I believe in 2012 the Roman Church rejected the concept of Purgatory.

PopeADope said:

That is the virtue I'm praying to aquire, the grace to believe I can't do things better.

If I was God I would heal the sick, give the needy money, speak clearly to the Heretics and unbelievers so that they would know the truth, and protect children from rapists and pedophiles. I'd speak to world leaders and tell them how they should run the government, while at the same time giving them free will to choose to disobey me. I wouldn't let any soul go to a place of Eternal torture like hell.

I think the world would be better... While at the same time I pray for the grace that I would not think of myself as knowing what's better for the world than God. So far I do not have that Grace.

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I don't believe in an afterlife, this life in death concept.
But, one scripture tells us that our suffering is so that we (believers?) may rejoice once Paradise comes! But, stop a moment and consider that.
What does that indicate as to what Paradise is going to be? This indicates that many shall not think Paradise a Paradise. How so?

If you consider that the earth must be protected from our polluting it: look at all the plastic polluting our oceans, the trash in the cities which seems to be overwhelming our places for putting this -- the point is that once the super-rich are not permitted more than others, and the poor are more or less as everybody else, there is going to be a lot of people who think that Paradise stinks, too much nature, too much health, too much of the goodie goodie stuff. Thus, our present suffering which we might be forced to remember if this is going to have an impact on us (?) might be the only thing that could make us accept a Paradise where the earth is protected, the poor are protected, etc.

shunyadragon said:

To add this is not how Purgatory is described by the Roman Church, and I believe the view of the Roman Church has changed concerning Purgatory.

The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, first published in 2005, is a summary in dialogue form of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It deals with purgatory in the following exchange:[59]

210. What is purgatory?

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven.
211. How can we help the souls being purified in purgatory?

Because of the communion of saints, the faithful who are still pilgrims on earth are able to help the souls in purgatory by offering prayers in suffrage for them, especially the Eucharistic sacrifice. They also help them by alms giving, indulgences, and works of penance.

By doctrine Purgatory is not intended for non-believers.

I believe in 2012 the Roman Church rejected the concept of Purgatory.

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The Church never rejected the doctrine of purgatory and there is the possibility of being enlightened by God after death and choosing to accept the truth after death. God can do anything, and scripture speaks of Christ preaching the gospel to the dead

My beliefs make me happy, yes. They befuddle the hell out of me, at times, but they still make me happy nevertheless.

@suncowiam

Aren't your perspectives some of your beliefs?

**edit forgot to quote (thought I did but I guess not)

Curious George said:

Aren't your perspectives some of your beliefs?

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Yes

PopeADope said:

Yes

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Sorry that was rhetorical. Still interested in hearing back re my original post in this thread.

Specifically, if ones beliefs make them happy or unhappy how come they are not always happy or unhappy. Do we no longer hold those beliefs that made us happy when we are unhappy or vice versa. Or is it because of new beliefs?

Curious George said:

Sorry that was rhetorical. Still interested in hearing back re my original post in this thread.

Specifically, if ones beliefs make them happy or unhappy how come they are not always happy or unhappy. Do we no longer hold those beliefs that made us happy when we are unhappy or vice versa. Or is it because of new beliefs?

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I'm happy depending on the graces granted.

When I believed the world was going to hell , that belief made me miserable.

The belief that God and heavenly beings love and watch over me makes me happy.

Did that kind of answer your question?

My beliefs don't always make me happy because sometimes God doesn't grant the same grace as others

PopeADope said:

I'm happy depending on the graces granted.

When I believed the world was going to hell , that belief made me miserable.

The belief that God and heavenly beings love and watch over me makes me happy.

Did that kind of answer your question?

My beliefs don't always make me happy because sometimes God doesn't grant the same grace as others

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Yes.

PopeADope said:

I'm happy depending on the graces granted.

When I believed the world was going to hell , that belief made me miserable.

The belief that God and heavenly beings love and watch over me makes me happy.

Did that kind of answer your question?

My beliefs don't always make me happy because sometimes God doesn't grant the same grace as others

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You are saying that two things need to be present for you to be happy. You need to believe x and God needs to grace you with Y. If and only if both are present you will be happy. If you believed z it doesn't matter how much God graces you you will never be happy. And it doesn't matter that you believe x unless God gives you grace?

Is that right?