Father
Devourer of Truth
fact
fakt/
noun
- a thing that is indisputably the case.
-
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Destiny
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
fakt/
noun
Father
Devourer of Truth
you more so have to prove Humans have free will as the concept itself is vague and nebulas. what even is free will? the ability of 100% individual conscious choice? we don't have that. that we are of 100% control of our domain and actions? don't have that either. the Judicial branch would work easier if we did. far less complications. since our perception itself is like butter and is easily mendable against one's will.
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
Can we just skip the part where you pretend to be all knowing?
Father
Devourer of Truth
it's not all-knowing. its just acceptance of Logic over will. unless you can prove we have free will. if we don't have free will than we have destiny or at the will of outside variables
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
Lets go back to my actual question, I asked for evidence, not the variables you think are relevant. As not only do I think that you are not smart enough to account for all the variables in the decision making process (as no one on the planet has that knowledge) I also don't think you are any type of expert on any of the branches of science you went on about. So like I said, lets skip the part where you pretend to be all knowing because I am not buying. Now if it is fact that there is no free will then there is evidence to establish this, so where is your evidence?
"we have free will"
You can choose to response to this post or not. The fact of being able to make decisions has long been empirically established and self evident. What you are talking about is what we call hard determinism, which is not fact supported by evidence, it is a theory that has some inherit scientific and logical problems. Not only is it unfalsifiable, but it creates an infinite regression problem.
Father
Devourer of Truth
I never stated I know all the variables. no one does. it is above our processing if you actually read my statement instead of coming up with snarky insults. I did state we only need to see 1% of those variables to understand we have little conscious say in our beliefs. our positions. our idea's our actions. and thoughts.
yes, we make decisions any monkey could understand I am not arguing we don't. I am arguing those decisions are not fully decided by us consciously. they are based on a whole box of variables like genetics and environment that cause us if not greatly. and I mean Greatly influence our design process to the point where you can not really call it our own. what I am talking about for example.
a person lets call them Bob. kills someone else. their action was based on what is called Motive. there acting on that Motive can be caused by genetics defects like Anger issues. personality disorders. insanity. many factors that greatly influence Bob's actions. so is Bob 100% consciously in control of his actions? the answer is No. that does not mean he didn't make a choice that's stating his choice was already decided by factors he has no control over. along with being a victim of happenstance. though the fact you need to result to calling into question my intelligence shows just how little you have as you cant even retort my claim in a proper manner
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
You called the Big Bang the first cause. How did you prove it was the first?
Unless it is your destiny to dodge responsibility of one's actions and choices.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
We are destined to become responsible -not by our action or choice.
Augustus
…
It's a psychological coping mechanism for being at the 'mercy of the gods'. It helps answer the question of how to cope with bad things that happen which we cannot change?
In the same as god, yes.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
The concept of individual destiny is not in the Bible.
What is taught is that God forces things on large scales to conform to his plans for our future. On the scale of the individual, God permits free will within a limited scope. The limitations are obvious and many:
you do not get to choose your parents
where you are born
if you are male or female
if you have birth defects, or are normal
if you are a bit stupid or highly intelligent.
You can see where this leads, and can continue the list yourself if you should so desire.
where you are born
if you are male or female
if you have birth defects, or are normal
if you are a bit stupid or highly intelligent.
You can see where this leads, and can continue the list yourself if you should so desire.
The concept of individual destiny is bogus except for Jesus Christ who came to give his life for us. Obviously, all of us are destined to die of some reason, old age, accident, etc. However, the reason is most likely random. While I might die of old age, if I don't watch out, I might get run over by a car.
It is certainly easier to blame our actions on something we can't control and was somehow predestined to happen than to admit our personal responsibility and deal with the consequences.
Little Lunch
Atheist
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
So no answer for the first cause. Hard determinism has never solved that problem without using something like faith, but definitely not in a factual sense. This is one of the reasons your position is unfalsifiable, which means it is not scientific and not a fact. You don't really seem to understand what a fact is, I think you just use it because you recognize the authority the word carries.
Because we cannot solve the first cause dilemma, this means the notion that everything is the result of a proceeding line of cause and effect is both unfalsifiable and not logically consistent. Which means there is more to it than we understand.
There are other issues with hard determinism, the theory is not as indisputable as you want to believe.
Not really, it's not about the concept of responsibility or its fellow concepts guilt, justice, and punishment. They do not figure in. If someone is using it as a way to dodge responsibility, that's peripheral to what it is. Anything can be used that way.
In the grandest sense, destiny is a sum of right decisions and choices that have dictated the path you are on, and the extension of that into the future, down the path that right decisions and choices will lead you. Destiny isn't another's path, some other path that you are not on; it's yours, right here and now. And destiny isn't just any path but the right one (specifically the right one for you, but also the right one for specifically you). Destiny is a concept more a take on Confucius than Christianity. Right choices make a right path that a right human walks. The right path is the moral man making beneficial decisions and choices, and conversely the moral man making beneficial decisions and choices is on the right path.
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
For your sake I hope that is dark chocolate with almonds and sea-salt.
If someone says, "I should have been a dancer, but I ended up an architect. Being a dancer is my true destiny," that's a misuse of destiny. It's the "making excuses." The life of that dancer that you could-shoulda-woulda been is a wish, it's not yours. At the same time, if that same architect chooses to be a dancer, pursues it and excels at it, then we can look back on that and say, yes, "Now, that's destiny."
But he was right.
He was right about mass divided by volume?