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Religon of money?

WARTORIOUS

Member
I posted this on another forum, and I am quite interested in finding out what you guys think :)

BackOffMofo said:
God has, in most regards, abaddoned humanity. He no longer provides for the needing. There are thousands of Christians in Africa starving and being slaugthered by muslims.
and you beileve once he did more for us? Maybe I live in a black and white world but it doesn’t seem god has ever done anything for us, never been one scrap of evidence to believe in god, it’s a matter of faith, that is to say if you believe and give 10% of your wages or whatever than, you know the rest… if your happy god is rewarding you, if your sad he’s testing you

Thegathering said:
The popes wouldn't slaughter anybody. Religious fanatics like you see modern day Muslim Extremists would kill people. Besides, witchunts were two hundred years ago.
witchunts were just a way of killing pagans, by the Catholics, and blaming everything bad that happened on them. Christians took over the country and figured the best way to convert the people was through fear of death, and by killing all the pagan religions leaders who were of the Black arts. It did kill paganism largely off.


You seem to know much about the Catholic denomination. God decreed that we give 10% of income to the CHURCH to support the church. All religions require money to function. You can't expect any religion to exist with donations of money because nothing could be accomplished. You look at Catholics, but there's a difference between a religion being founded to make money and a religion needing money to survive.
Muslim religion wants the same, only 15% I believe. A religion needing money to survive would not make a gigantic building in the middle of Rome made of gold, marble and the most expensive works of art i.e statues, artworks. There’s a gigantic solid gold mural on the wall, its an unbelievable amount of wealth, sometimes taken from family’s who can’t even afford to feed themselves in Africa. The popes did kill all those who didn’t believe, they did have there own private armies, you say 200 year ago, but that’s only 2 or 3 lifetimes ago, not long at all. Zirconium, no sexual protection, the huge families are simply to breed more Catholics to make more money. I have seen the unbelievable wealth of the Vatican, and the power it has to convert people, but I say this is a monument of the skill of humanity, to create something so amazing a testament to us, not some hypothetical man in the sky.

How is Catholicism evil? I truly believe the world would be a better place without fanatical evolutionists, which also may happen in time.

The word you’re looking for is empiricism, and the UK largely is, a person who puts more faith in the natural sciences and what they see than in religion and what there told. The search for knowledge through experiment and observation. I don’t see what evolution has to do with this at all. No, I don’t believe god created the unnerves 4000 years ago because of evidence like fossils that predate that by millions of years, because we are beginning to see the universe moving and changing in ways that make it look like there was a big bang, I don’t look in an old book that’s been rewritten countless times to find out about things, I do look for evidence. For example “I know birds can fly because I understand aerodynamics, we can measure the size and shape of there wings and muscles to understand how they fly”, or “God makes them fly”. Ones empiricism, the seconds rationalism.



How is Catholicism evil? Well is Microsoft evil? Both are enormous corporations, both provide a service to the general public, both have a huge amount of people using this service, both are staggeringly wealthy and are incredibly good at making money. One sells peace of mind, the other computers. Both have “outlets” where you get the service and people who are paid to provide it. I have been raised up to use Window’s PC’s as Catholics are raised up to go to church. I don’t see a huge difference really, only that Catholicism; and hence other religions centred around money cost more.
 

WARTORIOUS

Member
cardero said:
With a REALationship with GOD, no monetary funds ever needs to be exchanged.
not according to any religon I have ever seen. God commanded catholics to give 10% of there wages to the chirch, and Muslims 15% I beileve, thats what I said in my post.

Weather Some religions sole purpose is to gather money and power like Scientology for example is up for debate, but there demand for money is not.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
WARTORIOUS said:
not according to any religon I have ever seen. God commanded catholics to give 10% of there wages to the chirch, and Muslims 15% I beileve, thats what I said in my post.

Weather Some religions sole purpose is to gather money and power like Scientology for example is up for debate, but there demand for money is not.

i don't know of any pagan groups off hand that have any sort of payment for membership, nor any that require contributions of money - my group of pagan kindred share the bar tab, but that's about it.

i am affraid, however, that i do not fully understand your line of argument, could you clarify for me please, what it is you are arguing against?
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
WARTORIOUS said:
not according to any religon I have ever seen. God commanded catholics to give 10% of there wages to the chirch,

No...God did not tell people to give 10% of their wages to the church.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
WARTORIOUS said:
not according to any religon I have ever seen. God commanded catholics to give 10% of there wages to the chirch, and Muslims 15% I beileve, thats what I said in my post.

Weather Some religions sole purpose is to gather money and power like Scientology for example is up for debate, but there demand for money is not.

I'm with my friend Patric on this one. I am not a follower of any regular church, but all God gets from me, is the innane "Please will you look after my sons and wife, and keep them safe.............." No money there at all.

Mind you, there are some, I am certain, who actually do worship money. Of that, there is no doubt. But that's not what you were after though.

you might have a look at this though:-
http://www.stmaryscathedral.org.uk/cathedral_life/directory/charities.html; you can even do what I did, and Google "What charities are helped by The Catholic Church"............
 

Rejected

Under Reconstruction
Since a church is dependant on a specific religion to exist then yes, churches do need money to exist. I believe what they do with said money is directly proportional to the value of the institution. I.E., spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on material objects, (statues, paintings, frivolous buildings) which have no direct effect on the "salvation" of the congregation vs. spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on humnitarian aid such as food and potable water, medical care for impovershed citizens, etc.

However, religion is not necessarily dependant on a church, and as such no money is needed other than that which the follower directly needs to continue his/her faith.
 

egroen

Member
Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2). The idea of '10%' is an Old Testament concept, applying to what Israelites should give to the temple... the New Testament, is more ambiguous, stating everyone should give “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2).

Muslims pay a 'Zakat' which is 2.5% of their total wealth each year... not sure where you are getting 15%?

-Erin
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
Mike182 said:
some of the poorest people in this world hold the stongest faith in God.... and they don't have anything to take 10% away from :(
MMmnnn. Me too Mike.

Definitely my biggest beef with the major organised religions is the expect their members (read subjects) to give a portion of their material wealth.
"Things" are irrelevant to most religions and often is preferred to be done without. Refer Buddhism, Taoism, Jesus example in the bible of the rich couple who wouldn't give their belongings away.

The point is desire. If your church, synagogue, temple etc. want your material wealth, you should be questioning WHY? if it's going to good use, I'd be happy to part with it. If it's going to maintain some kind of "infrastructure" then you're basically paying for a product.

Consumerism in religion :(
 

egroen

Member
The point is desire. If your church, synagogue, temple etc. want your material wealth, you should be questioning WHY? if it's going to good use, I'd be happy to part with it. If it's going to maintain some kind of "infrastructure" then you're basically paying for a product.

If you attend church regularly, make use of its priests/pastors, regularly attend functions & events and generally find your life enriched by taking part in services I think it is perfectly acceptable for the church to ask for a tithe. I have yet to attend a church where tithing is obligatory (though I am sure they exist, ie. scientology).

By all means, inquire as to what this money is being used for, but helping to pay for the structures, services, community events and priest/pastor salaries you regulary take advantage of is not an 'outrage'. In most cases it is completely voluntary.

Those donuts aren't free, yah know????

-Erin
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
You know... I am joining the Catholic Church(the only thing right now keeping me is that I am discerning between Latin and Byzantine rites of the RCC) and no one has ever told me I have to contribute anything...
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Egroen writes: Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).
I would say that this is as good as any place to start and notice the purpose or agenda of a church. What Paul wouldn’t want people to consider is that GOD is everywhere and doesn’t require a church to conduct His REALationships or that people should conduct their REALationships alone, individually, wherever they stand. If people need a place to get together to discuss their beliefs may I suggest the closest tree.


“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.”
– H.H. the Dalai Lama
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with a church asking the people who use its services to donate money to help support it. My son and I infrequently attend churches in the area when I need a mass worship fix. I usually drop $20 in their offering figuring that I'd pay at least that if I went to the movies and somebody has to pay for the lights, etc.

I detest when they use spiritual blackmail and say "God says...". God said to the Hebrews in Leviticus. The NT says that we are to give from the heart and there are dozens of verses on helping the needy. Somehow I doubt that we are to take from the needy to put one more stained glass in the church entry.
 
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