Jesus is God.

JakofHearts · Nov 8, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
What I am telling you is common sense, a child could understand:
1. God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and omnipresent anything less and he is not god.
2. The Bible my final authority says that only the father knows all thing Matthew 24:36 only the father. But the 1 John 3:20 says God knows all things.
3. The Bible does not teach a Trinity.

You're still a baby spiritually speaking, and that's totally fine if you don't want to look further into the theology of the trinity. It's a difficult subject for some Christians but that doesn't make them any less Christian and I respect that as long as their love for Christ is true. I personally acquaint myself with the more traditional Christian theology that's been known for 2 millennia in regards to the trinity.

anonymous9887 · Nov 8, 2016

JakofHearts said:
You're still a baby spiritually speaking, and that's totally fine if you don't want to look further into the theology of the trinity. It's a difficult subject for some Christians but that doesn't make them any less Christian and I respect that as long as their love for Christ is true. I personally acquaint myself with the more traditional Christian theology that's been known for 2 millennia in regards to the trinity.

Just because a teaching is the most accepted does not mean in is accurate.

Modalism , Arianism, and other teachings have also been around for the same amount of time.

The trinity was not even defined until 325 AD by the council of Nicea , it seems to me you are unaware of many thing in regards to the trinity.

You also have not provided a rational answer as to why only the father is omniscient?

JakofHearts · Nov 8, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
Just because a teaching is the most accepted does not mean in is accurate.

Modalism , Arianism, and other teachings have also been around for the same amount of time.

The trinity was not even defined until 325 AD by the council of Nicea , it seems to me you are unaware of many thing in regards to the trinity.

You also have not provided a rational answer as to why only the father is omniscient?

I encourage you to watch this video on the history regarding the council of Nicea. I'd also encourage you to subscribe to InspiringPhilosophy for future referrals on some of the fundamentals of Christian theology. If you don't know what went on in the council of Nicea and what it was about, I think your ignorance would only cause you to lead you down a road of willing ignorance to dogmatic fundamentalism.

Also, why only the father is omniscient? God the father is greater than the son as I have already pointed out to you. If you insist on plugging your brain to reason, what more is there to discuss? I suggest you re-read post #339.

anonymous9887 · Nov 8, 2016

JakofHearts said:
I encourage you to watch this video on the history regarding the council of Nicea. I'd also encourage you to subscribe to InspiringPhilosophy for future referrals on some of the fundamentals of Christian theology. If you don't know what went on in the council of Nicea and what it was about, I think your ignorance would only cause you to lead you down a road of willing ignorance to dogmatic fundamentalism.

Also, why only the father is omniscient? God the father is greater than the son as I have already pointed out to you. If you insist on plugging your brain to reason, what more is there to discuss? I suggest you re-read post #339.

I understand that but what makes god "god"? Omniscience is a part of being god.
1 John 3:20 says God not father.
So if Jesus and the holy spirit are not omniscient then they are not god simple.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Nov 9, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
God knows all things

Except for the things He doesn't.

Paul Chavez said:
This means the father, the holy spirit, and Jesus know all things because they are all fully god, according to the trinity.
Matthew 24:36 Only the father knows the day and the Hour. What happened to the son, and the holy spirit?

That conflicts, though, so what's your point?

Paul Chavez said:
God in his nature is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient so if the members of the trinity dont have these traits they are not GOD.

I typically agree with you, though I disagree that God as portrayed in the bible is usually the omni-omni-omni thing. This is, from what I can tell, influenced by people like Plato and his dumb ideal forms nonsense. Middle Eastern pantheons didn't require these qualifications.

1robin said:
Because before the foundation of the world it was decided that that is exactly how would redeem a fallen race of humans powerless to save themselves.

And the world is still in a mess after Jesus showed up, so ... God has the same level of success?

1robin · Nov 9, 2016

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
And the world is still in a mess after Jesus showed up, so ... God has the same level of success?

Christ's mission when he came the first time had nothing to do with making the world perfect, it was instead to save people out of a wicked world who would much later be resurrected to a perfect world when the wicked world we have is eventually destroyed. You seem fairly knowledgeable, why do you not know of this. God accomplished exactly what he set out to do when Christ came as the lamb of God, and he will accomplish exactly what he wishes when Christ comes back as the lion of Judah.

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
Except for the things He doesn't.

That conflicts, though, so what's your point?

I typically agree with you, though I disagree that God as portrayed in the bible is usually the omni-omni-omni thing. This is, from what I can tell, influenced by people like Plato and his dumb ideal forms nonsense. Middle Eastern pantheons didn't require these qualifications.

And the world is still in a mess after Jesus showed up, so ... God has the same level of success?

OK.
The problem is that in this discussion we are dumb enough to believe the Bible.

We both(the other guy I'm discussing this with) believe in the Bible as the word of God so no argument there.

The argument is this:
1. The Bible tells us god knows all things, is almighty, and knows what is going on everywhere in his creation. So because this is our final authority that's our definition.
2. So if we are defining god using scripture then what I am saying is that the holy spirit person and Jesus lack knowledge of all things therefore can't be god Matthew 24:36.

Desert Snake · Nov 9, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
OK.
The problem is that in this discussion we are dumb enough to believe the Bible.

We both(the other guy I'm discussing this with) believe in the Bible as the word of God so no argument there.

The argument is this:
1. The Bible tells us god knows all things, is almighty, and knows what is going on everywhere in his creation. So because this is our final authority that's our definition.
2. So if we are defining god using scripture then what I am saying is that the holy spirit person and Jesus lack knowledge of all things therefore can't be god Matthew 24:36.

'Jesus', isn't a Rabbi fisherman who was partly deified, He was divine at conception, hence why the wise men went to honour Him. 'Jesus', in Spirit form, is simply an aspect of the father, //'one' with the father, so forth. Thusly, Jesus is God, and of course possesses the Godly attributes, because per Matthew 28:18
No human /non-deity, would be given all authority. Now, this is also why, Jesus had all authority, in human form/incarnation, in Israel, as well. This is why He was able to modify the laws, and also take on //contextual sin, for others //we can't do that, for example.

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
'Jesus', isn't a Rabbi fisherman who was partly deified, He was divine at conception, hence why the wise men went to honour Him. 'Jesus', in Spirit form, is simply an aspect of the father, //'one' with the father, so forth. Thusly, Jesus is God, and of course possesses the Godly attributes, because per Matthew 28:18
No human /non-deity, would be given all authority. Now, this is also why, Jesus had all authority, in human form/incarnation, in Israel, as well. This is why He was able to modify the laws, and also take on //contextual sin, for others //we can't do that, for example.

OK so by your logic god has a god.
Revelation 3:12

Btw who are we to say what god can do with his things?

metis · Nov 9, 2016

I tend to think that Jesus' main purpose can be summed up in his Sermon On the Mount, which is a call to action in order to have us make the world a better place as a reflection of God's gift of life to us all. It is in essence is a summation of that which is found in Torah and Tanakh.

Desert Snake · Nov 9, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
Btw who are we to say what god can do with his things?

To address this, are you claiming that the father set up a Rabbi to have all authority?
That is what you are implying. Can you explain why that makes sense to you?

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
To address this, are you claiming that the father set up a Rabbi to have all authority?
That is what you are implying. Can you explain why that makes sense to you?

Jesus was gods first creation in heaven and created "all things" through Jesus then Philippians 2:6 comes into play Jesus did not see equality to god a thing to be grasped and he became flesh. He preexisted as gods greatest creation and instrument and he emptied himself and became a man. So Jesus wasn't just a rabbi he existed in heaven with god and had done things in heaven already for god.

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
To address this, are you claiming that the father set up a Rabbi to have all authority?
That is what you are implying. Can you explain why that makes sense to you?

So can you please answer the previous statement " does god have a god?"

Revelation 3:12
Keep in mind Jesus is already in heaven when he is saying these words.

So if Jesus is fully god why does he address someone else as his god?

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
To address this, are you claiming that the father set up a Rabbi to have all authority?
That is what you are implying. Can you explain why that makes sense to you?

Jesus before the incarnation
John 17:5
Philippians 2:6

sovietchild · Nov 9, 2016

Jesus and Mary walked on this earth and ate food like regular people while God does not eat.

Desert Snake · Nov 9, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
So can you please answer the previous statement " does god have a god?"

Revelation 3:12
Keep in mind Jesus is already in heaven when he is saying these words.

So if Jesus is fully god why does he address someone else as his god?

He doesn't.
Revelation 1:1-2
informs us that it is an 'angel', who is talking to John, /not Jesus.

Revelation 1:8
This is 'Jesus', speaking, /per text,,
here, He, /Jesus, clearly calls Himself not only God, /both titles,, He also calls Himself the 'Almighty'.

Desert Snake · Nov 9, 2016

Paul Chavez said:
Philippians 2:6

You are misinterpreting this verse. This verse actually states that 'Jesus', /man form, in Israel, is God; however, had actually became a 'man', //like other people, or, similar to us.
This verse is arguing against your position.

//'form of God', means God.

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
He doesn't.
Revelation 1:1-2
informs us that it is an 'angel', who is talking to John, /not Jesus.

Revelation 1:8
This is 'Jesus', speaking, /per text,,
here, He, /Jesus, clearly calls Himself not only God, /both titles,, He also calls Himself the 'Almighty'.

The angel is revealing What Jesus is saying. Look at your bible revelation 3:12 scholars acknowledge that those are Jesus' words. its usually highlighted in red because those are Jesus words.

Revelation 1:8 is my favorite scripture to explain because many miss who is being called the almighty
I am the Alpha and the omega says the Lord god, the one who is, who was and who is coming.
1. !st we have to find out if Jesus is the one who is, who was, and is coming. To do this we have look at Revelation 1:4-5
2. This passage speaks of 3 different things the 7 spirits, the one who is who was and who is coming, "and Jesus"
3. Jesus is excluded from being the one who is who was and who is coming. There is a clear distinction.

Bottom line The father (YHWH) is the one who is who was and who is coming not Jesus.

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
You are misinterpreting this verse. This verse actually states that 'Jesus', /man form, in Israel, is God; however, had actually became a 'man', //like other people, or, similar to us.
This verse is arguing against your position.

//'form of God', means God.

Well that passage is an ambiguous passage because the passage means:
1. this passage means that Jesus was doing things for god. He was in the position of creating and doing works on behalf of his father.
2. That's why that passage in genesis 1:26 You quoted means the father is directing the son at that time.
3. When it says form the greek word mean outward appearance
4. Jesus was the outward appearance of god, and all things were created through Jesus, but even with that exaltation he did not mind letting go of the glory he originally had to become a man John 17:5

anonymous9887 · Nov 9, 2016

syncretic said:
You are misinterpreting this verse. This verse actually states that 'Jesus', /man form, in Israel, is God; however, had actually became a 'man', //like other people, or, similar to us.
This verse is arguing against your position.

//'form of God', means God.

What is happening in Philippians 2:6 is
1.Jesus is his prehuman existence is making a choice to humble himself in becoming incarnate
2. Jesus High position to taking the "form"(Philippians 2:7) of a slave and became human.
3. you see how the greek word morphe is being used, it is describing status not substance.

Jesus is God.

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