metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I actually did answer the question, but if it floats your boat to claim I didn't, then I would suggest that's your problem, not mine.
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How does one get into the New Testament church?
- Thread starter shava
- Start date
If you knew the bible you would know that Christians are commanded to judge, how else can a Christian correct either another Christian or a non Christian. Don't you realize we will be judging angels at the end of time. King James Bible, John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Please study your bible.
No, you never did, and I know why, because you don't know the New Testament. Again, what's the name of the church Christ built and how does one get into it, and the answer to these two questions are in the New Testament, so again, please answer my question.
What about Matthew 7.1: and further: don't judge or you too will be judged? Etc.
I am not sure what your point is, apart from showing, as if there were any need, that the Bible contradicts itself.
Ciao
- viole
Shava, your problem is that you have set yourself up as the inerrant mouthpiece of God, leaving no room for error in your own private interpretation of scripture. In doing so you come across as arrogant and close minded. And sadly a little hateful and self righteous. Are you trying to have an earnest debate, or just trying to beat your personal opinion into us? This could be a worthy debate but for the spirit in which you address those not in agreement with you.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There's a big difference between evaluating where a person is at versus judging one as to whether they're going to heaven or not, and you have done the latter in flagrant violation of what Jesus taught you and in violation of the Rules of Conduct here at RF. Maybe some day you'll decide to follow what Jesus teaches versus just your own judgmentalism. One simply cannot say they believe in Jesus and the Bible but then go around ignoring either one or the other or both.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It was originally called "the Way", but then the name eventually became the "Catholic Church", which should be obvious to anyone who actually studied the early church. It was the CC that selected the Bible you use as it certainly didn't chose itself, nor did the Bible chose the church. Maybe do some studying instead of blindly believing what your church leaders are telling you to believe.
And just a reminder that I am not a Catholic, so I have no vested interest in lying, but your church leaders sure do, and it's obvious they have been.
You're the one that took a verse out of text, as you can clearly see in my verse it says do not judge, meaning by appearance, but judge righteously, meaning to correct one in order to help them, like you for instance, who do not know how to study the bible and read the entire context before replying. Read the rest of Matthew above and below that verse and you will see what it's implying.
The wa
a. Church of God
b. The Way
c. The seven churches in Asia
The Seven Churches: Eras?
The Seven Churches: Ephesus
The Seven Churches: Smyrna
The Seven Churches: Pergamos
The Seven Churches: Thyatira
The Seven Churches: Sardis
The Seven Churches: Philadelphia
The Seven Churches: Laodicea
All of these churches are the churches of Christ because they all have the exact same doctrine and belief, whereas the Catholic doesn't. Do you not know that there's nothing in the bible about sprinkling an infant for original sin, no purgatory, no mention of needing a Pope, no praying to the dead and on and on and on, so your biblical ignorance sadly is very limited at best in an unorthodox twisted way. The Catholic church was established in AD325, whereas the churches of Christ was established in AD33, big difference, and big difference in doctrine. Can you prove these to be in the bible that I have mentioned that the Catholic church believes and practices. Do you know they also believe that there oral traditions are inspired like the bible is which is absurd.
After the passing of the apostles there was an apostasy -- a falling away from the faith (Acts 20:29,30; I Timothy 4:1-4; II Timothy 4:1-4), which ultimately came to be known as the Catholic Church, with doctrines and practices not authorized by Christ and his apostles. In 606 A.D. Boniface III, Bishop of Rome, became the first "universal Bishop", later known as the Pope. In the Eleventh Century the Catholic Church divided into two groups, Roman and Greek, with the Roman Catholic becoming the greater of the two. Also I have provided additional proof via this site in which I have provided which explains in detail on when the Catholic church was established, https://youtu.be....
3b. This site that I have provided will in detail explain when and why the Catholic church started and that they do not abide by the New Testament pattern, http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org....
3b. This site that I have provided will in detail explain when and why the Catholic church started and that they do not abide by the New Testament pattern, http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org....
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You simply do not know what you're talking about since what you have listed are local churches.
Paul made it clear that there's only "one body" with the apostolic church, not myriads of bodies. Here is the history you simply do not understand, so scroll down to where it says "Apostolic era and papacy", and just a reminder that Wikipedia is not a Catholic source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church#Apostolic_era_and_papacy
They are churches of Christ which go according to the New Testament pattern that Jesus has commanded one to go by. Of course there local churches of Christ, where do you think the church would be, invisible? The Catholic church info I gave you was not Wikipedia, as I gave you nothing of the sort. I gave you La Vista church of Christ and WVBS, so I haven't a clue where you came up with Wiki.
I gave you book, chapter and verse and all you ever give me is your baseless assertion, why do you not use book, chapter and verse? The Apostolic succession is a false doctrine, as there was never a break in the Apostles, as they had two other one's that met the criteria which had to be a person who was with them from the beginning, and no Pope ever was, and the Apostles had to have complete understanding, ( foreknowledge of the word of God ) and the ability to perform miracles, prophesize, which no Pope can do, so you obviously can see that the need for a Pope is totally against doctrine.
- The apostles received their commission directly from the living lips of Jesus.
- The apostles saw the Savior after His resurrection.
- The apostles exercised a special inspiration. They expounded and wrote
Scripture. (See John 14:26; 16:13; Gal. 1:11-12).
- They exercised supreme authority (see John 20:22-23; 2 Cor. 10:8).
- The badge of their authority was the power to work miracles (see Mark 6:13;
Luke 9:1-2; Acts 2:43). Such power is not invested in men today. That was the
badge of an apostle. John wrote at the end of the first century, "If there come any
unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid
him God speed" (2 John 10). The badge was no longer the ability to work
miracles but having the right doctrine.
- They were given a universal commission to found churches (see 2 Cor. 11:28).
No Pope need apply, as they do not meet the requirements set forth by God almighty.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It obvious you don't understand what Paul was referring to when he used his "one body" terminology, nor are you willing to do some homework on the early church and follow what is called "apostolic succession" that we know the early church relied on. As long as you do not understand that, and you certainly don't, then maybe you can come back later when you actually realize what Paul was saying and why this is crucial in understanding the evolution of the church. Until you do that, all you will continue to do is to wallow in the brainwashing you've been subject to.
So, let me know when you do the homework, OK, because you just haven't been willing to do so thus far. I post links, and you virtually ignore them, so why should I waste my time any more.
Ephesians 2:20 says that the church has been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Ephesians 3:5 reads that the mystery concerning the church has been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets through the Holy Spirit. The scriptures indicate that these roles were fulfilled in the first century, and do not continue today. Many believe the apostles were also the prophets and that they wrote the future down in scripture for us. Acts 13:32 names Judas and Silas as also being prophets. Jude admonishes his readers to avoid false doctrines not by listening to the living prophets or apostles, but by recalling what the apostles already taught them in vs.17. The church today does not need new prophets and apostles today, just to listen more carefully to the old ones
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why don't you ask yourself what happened after the apostles died, which was before the Bible was selected btw?
THE QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APOSTLE
When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).
When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).
The bible was already given to the people by the Apostles who were given the complete understanding in which when they taught the people many scholars began writing and making copies, and the Apostles, such as Paul when he wrote an Epistle he would give it to the church to be passed around and copied.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE, THEY SIMPLY PUT THE BOOKS IN ORDER, WHICH GOD HAD CONTROL ON WHAT WOULD GO WHERE, OR YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
This is one of the many reasons I left the church of Christ denomination: too many legalists and too many rules. The biggest reason was that the local church I went to, endorsed both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Wow. So yeah, I've heard all these arguments and have found flaws in all of them. This is how they are taught to evangelize and they don't care if they break the rules to do it. It's deceptive and that's really sad. The Gospel should never be cloaked in deception.
Here's the thing, churches of Christ are autonomous, meaning there there is no synod. So, there's no body certifying which church is legit or not. Ergo, any church can claim to be a church of Christ and in fact, most of them do. In reality, every Christian church is by default a church of Christ. Of course, that doesn't stop many church of Christers to claim a monopoly on the truth and salvation. They are trying to keep everybody else out of heaven, which reminds me of a certain discourse between Jesus and the legalists of his day...
Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. -NIV
See how these Pharisees were doing the very same thing and Jesus condemned them for it? You don't get to pick and choose who gets into heaven. That's Jesus' job, and he says you better be all about the love, or you're not getting in. You're not a disciple if you don't love. No, being self righteous doesn't cut it. Saying the right things isn't enough. It doesn't even matter if you aren't a member of any church. Just love. Put the needs of others over your own needs. Minister to the sick, the widows and the elderly. Let your example, not your arguments win people over to Christianity.
Here's the thing, churches of Christ are autonomous, meaning there there is no synod. So, there's no body certifying which church is legit or not. Ergo, any church can claim to be a church of Christ and in fact, most of them do. In reality, every Christian church is by default a church of Christ. Of course, that doesn't stop many church of Christers to claim a monopoly on the truth and salvation. They are trying to keep everybody else out of heaven, which reminds me of a certain discourse between Jesus and the legalists of his day...
Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. -NIV
See how these Pharisees were doing the very same thing and Jesus condemned them for it? You don't get to pick and choose who gets into heaven. That's Jesus' job, and he says you better be all about the love, or you're not getting in. You're not a disciple if you don't love. No, being self righteous doesn't cut it. Saying the right things isn't enough. It doesn't even matter if you aren't a member of any church. Just love. Put the needs of others over your own needs. Minister to the sick, the widows and the elderly. Let your example, not your arguments win people over to Christianity.
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