No. But I do not read all the threads you are in. I seem to be present to bother the Jehovah's Witnesses, which you are not.
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Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Notice John 16:13....."However, when that one* comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come."
Masculine pronouns attached, right?
Now, please read Jesus' previous words regarding this same promised helper, @ John 14:16-17....."And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper* to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you."
Byington's renders vs. 17, "the Spirit of Truth, which the world cannot receive because it does not perceive nor know it; you know it, because it stays with you and is in you."
Never does a neuter pronoun apply to a person.
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I am sad that you have problems in this regard....it makes me respect you greatly for your own detailed responses.
We have an Aussie on the governing body and he's a real larrikin....great sense of humor.
This is the restoration of what God purposed in Eden. What Adam lost (perfect unending life in paradise for his children) is what Jesus came to get us back. He is the one through whom we become reconciled with the Father, and regain the life that God meant us to live in the first place. We all have an inherent desire to live in paradise, but because this life is so fraught with trouble, many people mistake that for a life in heaven. If God's first purpose had gone ahead, no human would ever have needed to go to heaven......and Christ would never have had to come and "save" us. The earth was designed for us and we were designed to live right here.
I see no one else doing what we do on a global scale. I do not see any unity in Christendom's fragmented churches and no desire on their part to preach to anyone but those who might wander into their church or avail themselves of a church charity. I am not knocking charities, but all too often they are abused by people who only want a hand-out, not a hand up.
The opening words of Ezekiel ch 34 are....
"The word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and say to the shepherds, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding themselves! Is it not the flock that the shepherds should feed? 3 You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, and you slaughter the fattest animal, but you do not feed the flock. 4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field. 6 My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them."
He goes on to say....
"20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says to them: “Here I am, and I myself will judge between a fat sheep and a lean sheep, 21 for with your flank and shoulder you kept pushing, and with your horns you kept shoving all the sick ones until you had scattered them abroad. 22 And I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something to prey upon; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep. 23 I will raise up one shepherd over them, my servant David, and he will feed them. He himself will feed them and become their shepherd." (20-23)
Who were the "fat ones" who fed themselves well but failed to feed the flock? Jesus led his sheep out of that flock and into a new pen.
Sorry, I took the liberty of rendering that passage from the ESV....the archaic English just annoys the heck out of me.
This is saying that no matter what we may think of ourselves and our beliefs, they will all be evaluated by Jesus as the judge appointed by the Father. Jehovah laid the foundation in Christ and it was a solid foundation, but some are doing shoddy work in their building on it.
This verse is crucial...."each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done."
The proof of the pudding.....there is so much hanging in the balance here.
The truth IS balck and white. There are no maybe's. A fact is not undermined by someone else's supposition. You can create doubt (one of satan's favorite tricks) but you can't change a truth. It isn't a matter of disagreeing with JW's...its a matter of disagreeing with scripture. Who do you trust to interpret it?....Christendom? You are free to do that. We all have to find the "faithful slave" and feed at his table. (Matthew 24:45)
If you mean by church down the road brotherhood no I don't have one officially. I was attending the Uniting Church in Australia for a very brief period but that's another story in itself. I suppose you could go to their website but what their specific beliefs are I couldn't tell you.Again that's another story that I'm happy to share with you in another thread, but what I especially liked about them while I was there is their active love in the community of helping the homeless, helpless and downtrodden. That's my cup of tea big time.
Its nice that you have a good humanitarian streak...it shows a good heart. But can you tell me where Jesus ever advocated charity for those who will not (as opposed to cannot) help themselves?
The only people helped by the humanitarian efforts exercised in Israel were their own. If unbelievers were to come in and try to take food away from God's own, they would have been run off. The Christians in the first century were also told to be generous to the poor among them, but not to every Tom, Dick or Harry standing there with his hand out.
The saying "charity begins at home" means exactly that. We are to take care of our own brothers first and then take care of anyone else who genuinely needs our assistance.
If people don't want to work, then they don't deserve to eat according to Paul. (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12)
I particularly love the parable of the "good Samaritan". It must have galled the Pharisees because the hero of the story was a hated Samaritan and the villains were self righteous Jews. Our neighbor is anyone who needs our assistance on an individual basis, not someone we need to set up a dedicated charity for.
But if you fellowship with those who are in Babylon the great, then you have not removed yourself from her.
Who or what is Babylon the great in your view? If you can't identify her then you will not see the necessity of 'getting out of her' (Revelation 18:4-5) Not removing ourselves means certain death. How do you fellowship with people whose beliefs are not known by you?
I have studied with quite a few people from the Uniting Church and the one question that none of them can answer is "when will you be united"? The answer is "never". They simply put aside their differences in order to stay 'alive'. All the denomination in the UC were drying up and there was no way to keep the doors open unless they buried their differences and amalgamated. They are one of the 'slackest' churches in Australia as far as the Bible goes. They at one time had a practicing female homosexual as their leader. They operate by popular opinion rather than on the teachings of God's word. Do you really feel at home among people like that? I was married in a Uniting Church and the minister was a joke. He didn't care whether I went to his church or not. All he was interested in was charging me the fee to rent the church and have him perform the ceremony. What happened to "you received free, give free"?
Can you provide a verse that tells us to pray to Jesus?
Read the words you quoted carefully....the words you didn't highlight...."In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf; for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father."
And this verse in John:
"If you ask ME anything in My name, I WILL DO IT." John 14:14
If you read the previous verse it says: "Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. "
Like Philippians 2:11 "and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
Jesus always honored his Father. Everything he did was to glorify his God, not himself. If you place the son on the same footing as his God and Father, you break the first commandment. (Exodus 20:3)
Those whom Jesus rejects on judgment day are accused of "lawlessness" (Matthew 7:21-23).....how do Christians break God's law?....by making Jesus into Almighty God.
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Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Deejee,
Not all doubts were from satan, Deeje. The checklist is still the word of truth, the scriptures. If there are some disagreements or issues that may opposed to JW's, I think its a matter of how to take it as--either negative or positive response. It is nice to hear that you're saying we are free to do the interpretation, but on what extent of freedom? Does prohibition of searching & looking at the website that exposes JW's error--as a general rule of the church--a freedom or locked up to see the truth?? How about checking on the issued literature or booklets? How about the so-called leaders, or seeker who started the JW's? failed prophecies?
I believe the truth is freedom.
John 8:32
32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."NIV
Thanks
james2ko
Well-Known Member
A neuter pronoun may not apply to a human being, but it can apply to a spirit personality. In Mar 9:25, the evil spirit is referred to as “it” in several translations. The same in Luk 9:39. Giving additional credence to the notion that Christ, as a spirit being, is the holy spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17).
JesusBeliever
Active Member
I'm sure most kiwis would admit (quietly to themselves) that it was actually a very clever idea, and the shoe could have easily been on the other foot if we had only thought of it first.We have an Aussie on the governing body and he's a real larrikin....great sense of humor.We'll never live down that whole underhand bowling episode.
Yeah, I like the JW presentation of the restoration of all things as mentioned in Acts 3:21. While we might differ on some points, my view of Scripture in this matter is much closer in alignment with the JW teachings than with the rest of Christendom, whose views about the millennium seem almost non-existent.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that, I just wish it didn't feel like it had to try and diminish people's faith in Jesus. I like the fact that ordinary members are encouraged to spread the Good News. I've never been interested in being a pew filler as I'm sure many of our brethren would say the same. But many traditional Churches have a way of lulling people into that lukewarm place of just handing over money and leaving them to do the work. That's never been my cup of tea, and I think it has a lot to do with the way I was brought up. We all had a place and a role and a sense of purpose knowing that we served the whole.
I would have to agree. And the unity I do see in some of these churches deeply concerns me which is why I have kept my distance from most of them.
Yeah, I know what you're describing here coz I've seen it many times myself.
I can understand how and why you interpret it the way you do. But I can see a way Scripturally how this verse can be true without someone having to identify a specific group or organisation as the "new pen". And that is the flesh and the spirit. The flesh being the Old Pen and the Spirit being the New Pen:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." Romans 8:1-19
No worries!Sorry, I took the liberty of rendering that passage from the ESV....the archaic English just annoys the heck out of me.
I agree with all these points.This verse is crucial...."each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done."
The proof of the pudding.....there is so much hanging in the balance here.We have one shot to get this right.
Then you have this qualifier...."No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him" (John 6:44) If Jesus rejects the counterfeit Christians on judgment day, these are the ones who have not been "drawn" by the Father to his son. They have accepted Christ on their own terms...terms we have no right to dictate. (2 Thess 2:9-12) We accept God's terms for worship or we will not be permitted citizenship in his kingdom. Its really that simple.
God is the "hearer of prayer" and if he sees someone who is asking for help to discern the truth, he will make sure that that person is exposed to it. He will not make decisions for them however. He will answer their prayer and allow them to do the rest. We have called on so many people who told us that they were praying just before we knocked on their door. Some were even contemplating suicide....
God does indeed answer such prayers, but he will not force his truth on anyone. All are free to accept or reject it, just as they did when Jesus walked the earth.The majority rejected him. They will again. (Matthew 24:37-39)
Actually its the Watchtower that is our main focus for examining God's word. If you look at the front cover it says..."Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom".
It is like today's 'newspaper' to us. We don't treat our literature like scripture, though some like to imagine that we do.
I find it odd that you have no knowledge of the beliefs of the church you attend, yet shun JW's for only one line of disagreement.
How do you know who is a follower of Jesus Christ and who is a counterfeit if you don't know what they believe? Just calling yourself a Christian is not enough as Jesus says....
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew7:21-23)
There is a very real danger that we might be associating with those "Christians"....the ones only talking about their "Lord" or putting great store by their spiritual "gifts", but not following through on what he told them to do specifically. (Matthew 28:19-20) The will of the Father is the preaching of his kingdom so that "the end" of satan's rulership can come. (Matthew 24:14) It is the only "witness" that people will get and just like the days of Noah, they will go with the crowd and ignore the warning rather take note as Jesus said. (Matthew 24:37-39)
What is the "good news of the kingdom" according to your understanding?
It obviously isn't the ones who are described in Matthew 7:21-23. He says that he has NEVER known these ones whom he classifies as "workers of lawlessness".
Those mentioned in Matt 7 also chose Jesus Christ, but he didn't choose them, nor has he ever recognized them.
If you have to qualify for a law degree or a medical degree, can you just pick and choose which parts of the teachings on these subjects suit you and ignore the rest?
You can't do that with the Bible either.
Or perhaps in context you can see something obvious....?
"it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was to demonstrate his own righteousness, because God in his forbearance was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past. 26 This was to demonstrate his own righteousness in this present season, so that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man who has faith in Jesus" (Romans 3:24-26)
God's role in this declaration of righteousness seems to be overlooked. It was God who presented his son as an offering for us. It was God forgiving sins to demonstrate his own righteousness. It is God who declares a person righteous because of faith in Jesus' ransom.
It doesn't matter whether we accept 'each other' as brethren....don't you understand? It is whether GOD accepts us as footstep followers of his son, "DOING the will of the Father".
We have to measure up to his standards, not our own. We don't dictate to God what we will believe...he gets to dictate to us. If we don't love the truth, then nothing will make sense and we will end us belonging nowhere.
We can talk about being Christians till the cows come home,
What is "freedom" Yoshua? Freedom to put whatever spin you like on God's word? Freedom to worship a different god to the one Jesus taught us about?
There are so many claiming to be the "faithful slave" mentioned in Matthew 24:45, but Jesus shrouded his identity in mystery by framing his existence in a question....
“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"
So who is he? "He" is appointed by Jesus himself and he has the responsibility to "feed" Christ's entire household their "food at the proper time".
He is the only one assigned to "feed" us. We are not free to eat from other tables nor are we told to feed ourselves....so who is he to you?
No man, woman or group can rightly say that they are, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control. Those are the FRUITS of the Holy Spirit. Fruits are something to eat, so the faithful and discreet slave must be The Holy Spirit.
I shall tell you all, as though you care, what is being taught that is altogether unbelievable.
They teach that the faithful and discreet slave cannot be the holy spirit because it is written that it is possible for the fds to apostasize.
I think it is obvious to even the dullest mind that the holy spirit can not do that.
Matthew 24:48-49
Please look at the grammar. It DOESN'T say, "if but, the evil slave should say in his heart....."
IT SAYS, "if, but the evil slave THAT, in the heart of him....."
Do you see that word "that"? Why does any super-fine apostle think it is there?
The word that signifies someone else. Look at the chapter. What is it talking about? Ignore me.........go ahead. OMG
They teach that the faithful and discreet slave cannot be the holy spirit because it is written that it is possible for the fds to apostasize.
I think it is obvious to even the dullest mind that the holy spirit can not do that.
Matthew 24:48-49
Please look at the grammar. It DOESN'T say, "if but, the evil slave should say in his heart....."
IT SAYS, "if, but the evil slave THAT, in the heart of him....."
Do you see that word "that"? Why does any super-fine apostle think it is there?
The word that signifies someone else. Look at the chapter. What is it talking about? Ignore me.........go ahead. OMG
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Now here is the funny part (if I was Satan).
They say it can't be the holy spirit (see above), but it can be a group of men that God knows they won't apostasize, but God will have written that they might. WHY?
Why is it written that they might, but they won't (according to the Jehovah's Witnesses)?
Does no one else worry about the DNA of future generations?
They say it can't be the holy spirit (see above), but it can be a group of men that God knows they won't apostasize, but God will have written that they might. WHY?
Why is it written that they might, but they won't (according to the Jehovah's Witnesses)?
Does no one else worry about the DNA of future generations?
M u s t s p e l l i t o u t
The chapter is about false christs coming. So when he says someone might mistreat his apostles he says, "that" , the one he is warning us about.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1565.htm
The chapter is about false christs coming. So when he says someone might mistreat his apostles he says, "that" , the one he is warning us about.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1565.htm
JesusBeliever
Active Member
I agree!
Honestly, I don't trust anyone but the Lord to interpret it for me. And I know that might sound hard to believe but I don't even trust myself totally. I ask Him to teach me all of the time and He has taught me many things that I have never heard spoken about by other people. But I know that they're true because He has fulfilled them in my personal life according to His Word in the Scriptures. If I can give you an example... the deaf and dumb spirit referred to in my signature, has plagued me and my family since I was a little child. This is deeply personal to me so please tread carefully when talking about it. It's too raw for me to tell you how it came about that I identified the deaf and dumb spirit specifically but when I first read those verses in Mark I cried my eyes out coz it was like reading my own life's story. Note that it was the only unclean spirit mentioned in Scripture that the Apostles couldn't cast out, despite being able to cast out all the others. Reading this for the first time helped me to find it in my heart to forgive all those who had also failed to cast it out of me, coz many who were known to have this same gift failed with me too. Jesus was the only one able to, and I am thankful to be able to say that He did. That's why denying Him, for me, is a particularly sensitive subject, because He literally saved me. And not only once!
Anyway, because of my life's struggles, I have noticed my ear (or should I say heart) is especially tuned to the Scriptures that speak of demonic and satanic oppression. Because my life has literally depended on knowing how to keep myself safe from such attacks and not giving them any opportunity to get access to me. And I have found that staying as close to Jesus as is humanly possible, learning to walk in the Spirit according to His written word has been the ONLY way I've been able to escape with my life. And like I said it has been more than once. It has sometimes meant living a very lonely existence when no one else in my life has been able to fathom why living a "normal" life has always been a struggle for me.
I know that you believe this speaks of the JWs but tell me this Deeje, can you honestly say that the JWs would have been able to equip me with the Scriptural knowledge to overcome this unclean spirit that not even the chosen Apostles of Jesus were equipped to deal with? I can understand if you're immediate reaction is to say "Yes!" but as you mentioned in your previous post the proof is certainly in the pudding and I just didn't find it in the JWs. I found it solely in Scripture! It might also be important to point out that I just took a closer look at Matthew 24:45 and the word which has been translated as HOUSEHOLD is actually HEALING or some derivative of that word. The GREEK word is THERAPIEA which is where we get our English word THERAPY from.
I think this in itself proves that the faithful slave refers to individuals whom the Lord finds worthy to do the works that He did while on earth, just as He testifies in other Scriptures as well:
""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father." John 14:12
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:15-18
"Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one." Acts 5:15-16
"for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. You also became imitators of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. For the word of the Lord has sounded forth from you, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith toward God has gone forth, so that we have no need to say anything. For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come." 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10
"and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:4-5
I totally understand what you're describing here and have felt taken advantage of by people many times, but I also know what it is like to be viewed as a person who will not help themselves. It's pretty isolating to say the least. A lot can be going on for those people that we know nothing about so I always try to keep my door open to all in need, even if it means being taken advantage of sometimes. And more often than not I have seen these same people come to faith in the Lord Jesus shortly after. Not from anything I've done or said coz in almost all cases I have always felt I fell far short of being a good witness for the Lord.
Yes, I would have to agree.
This might be the time to explain to you why I visited the Uniting Church in the first place. It happened one night unexpectedly, that a photo of a church in my local area flashed in my mind as these words from Scripture came to me simultaneously:
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
My immediate response was to say, "I am willing Lord, if you want me to."
So I went along the following Sunday, choosing not to assume why I was being called there. Anyway, long story short, for the most part I found the services quite beautiful but they're was one specific day that happened, that I have wondered ever since was the true reason why the Lord drew me there. And that was to forgive, to forgive all the Christians who I felt had failed me in the past, on my pursuit of healing, peace and reconciliation with God. This very private moment occurred in the bathroom of the Church, when I cried out to the Lord and said, "I forgive Lord, I forgive!"
Little did I know at the time that 2 services later would be the last time I visited that Church. Nearly every week since then I have asked the Lord, do you want me to go back there? Coz I am willing if you want me to! And each week, things have happened to make it almost impossible for me to go. Despite this I have remained ready and willing, to go where ever the Lord calls me. He has done it many times before, and I know He can and will do it again. I trust Him with my whole heart!
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JesusBeliever
Active Member
Honestly, I think Mystery Babylon is the flesh! As those verses I quoted previously also support. Not removing ourselves from our flesh indeed means certain death. I hope you don't mind if I quote those verses again, because they are powerful:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."Romans 8:1-19
In those specific words no, but I can show you that not only did the early disciples talk to Jesus after His ascension into Heaven but He also talked to them. Most Christians know the famous story about the Lord Jesus appearing to the Apostle Paul, but what is often overlooked is the fact that Jesus also appeared in a vision to Ananias and spoke with him, and he with Jesus. A very important fact is revealed in this conversation:
"Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight." But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name." But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;" Acts 9:10-18
There are those who might say that what happened with the Apostle Paul was a unique case, but the Apostles own testimony in his letters prove that this simply isn't true:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." 1 Timothy 1:15-16
I politely ask that you do the same coz I can still see it!
If you were right about this I would have cause for concern, but Jesus tells us in the same verse why He rejects those who practice lawlessness:Jesus always honored his Father. Everything he did was to glorify his God, not himself. If you place the son on the same footing as his God and Father, you break the first commandment. (Exodus 20:3)
Those whom Jesus rejects on judgment day are accused of "lawlessness" (Matthew 7:21-23).....how do Christians break God's law....by making Jesus into Almighty God.
""And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'" Matthew 7:23
james2ko
Well-Known Member
They must have really done a number on you. I can sense the resentment in your replies to deeje.
I think they are doing a number on Jehovah God. They have placed their governing body on God's throne. Resentment?
I do not know any other group who says that to please Jehovah I must believe the Bible their way.* I do not pick on people I do not know.
* and then they change it. Say what? No! I am not going to zig-zag with them. They warn me.....I warn them.
@james2ko Who else believes that Jehovah will forsake me for not siding with a certain human or a certain group? Do you believe that too?
Do you believe that people who are not of the church of James are lost?
Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach that if you do not recognize them as the true religion, you will be destroyed. Now, it seems, they might have changed their minds. Well?
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Jesus Christ has never told me anything that is not true. I resent that the Jehovah's Witnesses think that it is wise to keep up with them right or wrong.