Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Bible never portrays Jehovah as having no limits in his tolerance. I personally find him an ironic God.
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ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY
- Thread starter Monk Of Reason
- Start date
Bible never portrays Jehovah as having no limits in his tolerance. I personally find him an ironic God.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I am sorry I was reading too fast. Was thinking of JoStories post from earlier. Incest was not even established as such till much later when the lifespans of humans was decreasing to the point where producing children with your close relatives would start to have increased risks for birth defects. Rather than evolving into something stronger, the human genome has been becoming less and less resilient with each generation.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
And I've come full circle. I don't accept an intolerant all powerful deity as the pilar of morality to which we should all defer.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Yet if he's a GOD, he can make more people. Interesting that god's power is impotent next to nature.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Instead of making more people from two new perfect parents, he found a way to redeem Adam's children, so he can restore those humans to their birthright.
Shad
Veteran Member
Life span has nothing to do with passing on genetic defects thus is irreverent. Also you must provide evidence of a stronger genome rather than assert it as ad hoc rationalization.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That wasn't the question. The question was why did God have to destroy the cities, instead of working with them to make them better?
That depends on where you're looking at. In America, "putting people away" doesn't work, the idea of a "criminal warehouse" has failed, and America has a very high recidivism rate, and petty criminals become hardened and more dangerous criminals at Criminal U, otherwise known as prison.
The Scandinavian model, OTOH, especially Norway, where they do work with criminals to help make them productive members of society, and where they treat inmates like human beings, seems to have had a good deal of success, and they have a very low recidivism rate.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Yeah. The claim of a weaker human genome was made, but leprosy anymore tends to be very isolated and the bubonic plague hasn't been serious international threat in a long time.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
The rational is that prior to marriage between close relatives becoming forbidden, life spans were recorded to be on the order of 100s of years. When the Law was given to Moses, this was becoming exceedingly rare. In song Moses declared that in general, "the span of our lives is 70 years, or 80 if one is especially strong." (Psalm 90:10)
It was not due to increased pollution. Perhaps some of it may have been due to increased radiation getting through the atmosphere, since what was done on the 2nd creative day was undone. (Ge 1:7) Regardless, Adam had a right to everlasting human life till he forfeited that right, and incest had not been defined till a time when our lives were commonly much shorter than those prior. Like with many things, culture develops an anathema for things longtime forbidden. Prior to the law there would have been no reason for anathema to develop.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Requiring human sacrifice to "save" people from being what he created them to be is an immoral act. And again, if you were speaking of any god but your own, you'd agree.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
He did not create them to have temporary life-spans like the animals. He allowed Adam and Eve to produce offspring, but these offspring no longer were what they were meant to be. But God never goes back on his spoken purpose. He said that he wanted the children of Adam to fulfill Genesis 1:28. Being a God of Justice, he chose not to ignore his own principles of Justice. All men were condemned to death, someone needed to take their place to redeem them. He found a way to satisfy his own principles in a way that meant no lasting harm to the one sacrificed. What is more he demonstrated his love by not withholding the one person that meant the most to him emotionally.
If the one sacrificed was forever damned. I would agree with you.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
HUMAN SACRIFICE is immoral. Spin it however you like. It remains immoral.
Shad
Veteran Member
Which does not render my point wrong as life span has nothing to do with genetic disorders. One does not remove these disorders nor the ability to pass them on by living longer. After all in modern times we live longer than humans in the past have yet there is no decrease in disorders. Take a look at Pakistan in which a large minority of marriages are to relatives yet has an increasing amount of defects. They live longer. According to your logic they should have an decreasing amount rather than a rising.
You only have the Bible for evidence yet anthology, archaeology and medical science all disagree. I think I will reject a book made by people obvious to the idea of genetics due to their lack of knowledge.
700 children born with genetic disabilities due to cousin marriages every year - Telegraph
Empty speculation. You have no evidence so you are guessing. I can dismiss it by definition of it being pure speculation. Also you just used cultural relativism as a defense with is nonsensical if you believe in objective morality especially if you use the Bible as your guide. God changing his mind means god's morals are just as subjective as our own. You just invest authority in gods subjective morals while others do not.
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Shad
Veteran Member
Those are not both genetic disorders which is a key issue with inbreeding. Also leprosy immunity is genetic not the disease. Both case the diseases are treatable and the environment which act as host are not as numerous. However if you look at areas of the world which lack these factors both are still issues which require external aids. There are still minor outbreaks in areas which are impoverished thus lack the capability to combat both.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
There is nothing to suggest that humans can live for 100s of years. Even though a short life-span in earlier times tends to be very over played,
If that were the case, we would all be born sinless, and without a sinful nature, as giving us these things is punishing us for Adam and Eve's mistake.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father...and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
So, how can it be that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, yet Cain and Abel, and everyone since, has been born into the post-sin world with cursed grounds and a sinful nature when it was Adam and Eve who sinned? Why do we all bear their iniquity when, allegedly, according to the Bible none of us should have to deal with the iniquity of Adam and Eve?
And, we find the same thing in Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
chevron1
Active Member
because eve gave him the fruit and she initiated the sin.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Resistance to such things is also genetic. We didn't have vaccines the last time the bubonic plague wiped out large swathes of the population throughout Europe and Asia.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
You are right, it is speculation, I am not so sure about it being "empty" though. It is trying to reason on what information has been provided. We have no proof outside of the Bible that people lived longer than they do today in times past. But we do know that people have strong prejudices against things that have been long forbidden. Incest may be one of those things. There is no reason to be dogmatic that incest was as prone to cause defects at a time when men lived much longer even without the advances of modern medicine.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
But Adam still ate it, and he still disobeyed god.
chevron1
Active Member
where in the bible is incest approved for increasing the human population?
levitticus 18:9 "Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere."