Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?

Skwim · May 13, 2015

JayJayDee said:
There is not one single reference to the Holy Spirit as "God the Holy Spirit", just as there is no reference to "God the Son". These titles were made up by the Catholic Church. There is no scripture that calls the Holy Spirit "God".

1 John 5:7 is a spurious verse mistranslated later to support the trinity. They were not in the original manuscripts.
That verse reads (in context)

1 John 5:5-12...."Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (NASB)

The "three" that testify are not part of a trinity. At Jesus' baptism, the water was used at his baptism, the holy spirit was used to empower the son of God to accomplish his ministry and the blood that he shed redeemed the human race descended from Adam. In this scripture, there is no reference to either Jesus or the holy spirit as God.

The Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3) His son was sent from heaven to fulfil a mission to rescue Adam's descendants, and the holy spirit is the power of God used to accomplish His will. These three work in harmony, not as a triune godhead, but as the means by which God fullfilled his eternal purpose in connection with saving Adam's children.

Surprised you use the NASB rather than the NWT version. In any case, there are quite a few that disagree with you and the NASB.

1 John 5:7 (KJ21)
7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (AMP)
7 So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;

1 John 5:7 (BRG)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (DRA)
7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (GNV)
7 For there are three, which bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (ISV)
7 For there are three witnesses in heaven—the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (JUB)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (AKJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (MEV)
7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

1 John 5:7 (NKJV)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (NLV)
7 There are three Who speak of this in heaven: the Father and the Word and the Holy Spirit. These three are one.

1 John 5:7 (WE)
7 There are three in heaven who prove it is true. They are the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. These three are one.

1 John 5:7 (WYC)
7 For three be, that give witnessing in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost [For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one.

1 John 5:7 (YLT)
7 because three are who are testifying [in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

What's a fella to do? There are so many choices of "truth" floating around.

paarsurrey · May 13, 2015

Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?

It is not expressly and literally mentioned in the Gospels, not even once, that Holy Ghost/Spirit is a god.
It is a wrong inference from the Gospels.

Regards

Skwim · May 13, 2015

paarsurrey said:
Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?

It is not expressly and literally mentioned in the Gospels, not even once, that Holy Ghost/Spirit is a god.
It is a wrong inference from the Gospels.

Regards

According to my post that is right above yours, which lists various renderings of 1 John 5:7, such as, "[For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one," there does indeed appear to be good evidence that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is god

JayJayDee · May 13, 2015

Skwim said:
Surprised you use the NASB rather than the NWT version. In any case, there are quite a few that disagree with you and the NASB.

1 John 5:7 (KJ21)
7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (AMP)
7 So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;

1 John 5:7 (BRG)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (DRA)
7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (GNV)
7 For there are three, which bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (ISV)
7 For there are three witnesses in heaven—the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (JUB)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (AKJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (MEV)
7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

1 John 5:7 (NKJV)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (NLV)
7 There are three Who speak of this in heaven: the Father and the Word and the Holy Spirit. These three are one.

1 John 5:7 (WE)
7 There are three in heaven who prove it is true. They are the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. These three are one.

1 John 5:7 (WYC)
7 For three be, that give witnessing in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost [For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one.

1 John 5:7 (YLT)
7 because three are who are testifying [in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.

The church was desperate to promote their trinity, so they added this to the text later. Fraud creeps in when real evidence is lacking. Humans have a tendency to do this in many fields of education.

What's a fella to do? There are so many choices of "truth" floating around.

Scripture does not contradict scripture. There is NO trinity taught in the Bible. Christendom (which began with apostate Roman Catholicism) invented this triune polytheistic god. There is not one single word of Jesus Christ that states that either he or the holy spirit is in any way on an equal footing with the one Jesus called "the only true God" (John 17:3)

He also said that we were to worship only the Father, which makes no sense if they are all God. (Luke 4:8)

Skwim · May 13, 2015

JayJayDee said:
Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.

The church was desperate to promote their trinity, so they added this to the text later. Fraud creeps in when real evidence is lacking. Humans have a tendency to do this in many fields of education.

So, I assume you agree with everything Scrivener says. His criticisms are all inerrant. That about it? Or is it just those issues that fall in step with your own?

Scripture does not contradict scripture. There is NO trinity taught in the Bible, that I, JayJayDee, accept. Christendom (which began with apostate Roman Catholicism) invented this triune polytheistic god.

Which is all it comes down to.

He also said that we were to worship only the Father, which makes no sense if they are all God. (Luke 4:8)

So now Scrivener is the captain of your religious beliefs. Interesting.

JayJayDee · May 13, 2015

Skwim said:
So, I assume you agree with everything Scrivener says. His criticisms are all inerrant. That about it? Or is it just those issues that fall in step with your own?

Is that what I said? I was merely pointing out that textural critics can admit that this is a spurious verse added later by those wanting to promote their trinity. Give you an inch and you take a mile....

Which is all it comes down to.

What it comes down to, is that there is not one statement where Jesus says anything about being equal to God.
There is no "God the Son" and there is no "God the Holy Spirit" there is just "one God"....the Father.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...."For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth—as there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father. All things are from Him,and we exist for Him. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things are through Him,and we exist through Him." (1 Cor 8:5, 6)

Look no third person even mentioned and only one is God......"the Father".

So now Scrivener is the captain of your religious beliefs. Interesting.

Nice try. Are you really that desperate to prove us wrong? You have to put words in my mouth now? I guess all evolutionists are good at making assumptions.....it forms the basis for all they believe apparently....

Skwim · May 13, 2015

JayJayDee said:
Nice try. Are you really that desperate to prove us wrong? You have to put words in my mouth now? I guess all evolutionists are good at making assumptions.....it forms the basis for all they believe apparently....

And you're not!

JayJayDee · May 14, 2015

Skwim said:
And you're not!

No I'm not......

This looks like a smoke screen to cover up the fact that you got the rest of your assumptions wrong again.

The Bible makes way more sense than the infinite, undirected series of fortunate accidents that evolutionists would like us to believe is responsible for the diversity of all life on this planet.

The Bible says that God's spirit was used in creation and so was God's son, yet neither of them claimed to be God....not once.

paarsurrey · May 14, 2015

Skwim said:
According to my post that is right above yours, which lists various renderings of 1 John 5:7, such as, "[For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one," there does indeed appear to be good evidence that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is god

Jesus did not say it.
It is a later addition.

Regards

Skwim · May 14, 2015

paarsurrey said:
Jesus did not say it.
It is a later addition.

Regards

I know. John was speaking in 1 John 5:7.

kjw47 · May 15, 2015

Skwim said:
I know. John was speaking in 1 John 5:7.

The JW teachers were allowed to go into Catholicism archives--they came out with proof-1John 5:7 is wrong in trinity bibles--the spirit, water and blood is correct.
Jesus and all his real teachers teach Jesus has a God-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- 2Cor 1:3,1Cor 8:6,1Cor 15:24-28---1Peter 1:3--Rev 1:6---plus many other spots making this the #1 teaching in the nt--Jesus has a God like we do his Father( Jehovah)--Making this the bottom line reality every true follower does daily--John 4:22-24--and Jesus' real teachers make sure this is deep into each ones heart.

Unveiled Artist · May 15, 2015

Mycroft said:
Why does it matter, and why should we care?

There isnt. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. For example, the HS was the dove that blessed Jesus unto baptism to His ministry.

Everything comes from the Father. Everything from the Father works through His son. How does everything come together? By the Holy Spirit.

The Father is the source. The Son is the vehicle. The HS is what makes it all work. But credit is always given to the Father. They are one in how they work together.

moorea944 · May 16, 2015

kjw47 said:
The JW teachers were allowed to go into Catholicism archives--they came out with proof-1John 5:7 is wrong in trinity bibles--the spirit, water and blood is correct.
Jesus and all his real teachers teach Jesus has a God-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- 2Cor 1:3,1Cor 8:6,1Cor 15:24-28---1Peter 1:3--Rev 1:6---plus many other spots making this the #1 teaching in the nt--Jesus has a God like we do his Father( Jehovah)--Making this the bottom line reality every true follower does daily--John 4:22-24--and Jesus' real teachers make sure this is deep into each ones heart.

I also like 1 Cor 11 "God is the head (leader) of Jesus....."

Muffled · May 16, 2015

I believe in John 14 The Holy Spirit is equated with the Father and Jesus. I believe that is how I experience God.

Muffled · May 16, 2015

paarsurrey said:
Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?

It is not expressly and literally mentioned in the Gospels, not even once, that Holy Ghost/Spirit is a god.
It is a wrong inference from the Gospels.

Regards

I believe the Paraclete is not a god but The God.

Muffled · May 16, 2015

paarsurrey said:
Jesus never described Holy Ghost as G-d, it is an invention of the Church.
I agree with you.
Regards

I believe your concept is an invention of a confused mind. I have never seen any evidene that the church invented anything and the fact that the information is in the Bible suggests that the doctrine is derived from the Bible.

Nada · May 16, 2015

The holy spirt is not god or God.It is power from God the Almighty.It is His active force.It is not a person.According to the holy scriptures.

Unveiled Artist · May 16, 2015

Regardless if right or wrong, it is a fact the Church chose which scripture is inspired and which arent. They have influence on what teachings approved and which arent. Also, the Holy Spirit doctrine, if I remember the old testement recently, is not in the OT. It was only God who is spirit. Jesus always refer the OT as scriptures. The apostles refer to the OT as scriptures. The teachings of Christ were oral not written. I see no reference that the Holy Spirit is the Father. The OT the Spirit of God workes through everything. The new testement, the Holy Spirit was sent from God to those who converted and were given the gift of tongues.

Just because the Holy Spirit came from God, doesnt make the Holy Spirit God. Thats like spliting God up. Cant split a spirit up. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are unique from the Father.

Anyway, my two cents...

Muffled said:
I believe your concept is an invention of a confused mind. I have never seen any evidene that the church invented anything and the fact that the information is in the Bible suggests that the doctrine is derived from the Bible.

kjw47 · May 16, 2015

Muffled said:
I believe in John 14 The Holy Spirit is equated with the Father and Jesus. I believe that is how I experience God.

Jehovah has a personal name--Jesus has a personal name--every mortal and spirit creature has a personal name--The HS does not have a name.
The trinity teaching is that all 3 are equal--yet even in the error filled trinity translations God gets worship-honor-glory--he shares honor and glory with Jesus, worship to a mortal Jesus is a translating error--the HS gets 0--At John 17:3--one must know the Father and know Jesus to get eternal life--but 0 for the HS--at 1Cor 8:6--Paul is clear--there is one God to all. the Father.
When Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father he subjects himself(1Cor 15:24-28)
Jesus had to be taught everything, given everything--there is 0 equality between the 3--only Jehovah is the true living God.

there is 0 trinity God in existence.

Mountain_Climber · May 16, 2015

Skwim said:
According to my post that is right above yours, which lists various renderings of 1 John 5:7, such as, "[For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one," there does indeed appear to be good evidence that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is god

I will give you this much, Skwim, it does indeed appear from the scriptures you quoted that the holy spirit is of God.

If I were a rebellious man I could be one with the unholy spirit of rebellion. I would be one who testifies to who I am by my rebellious ideas through literal words and the unholy spirit which I was one with and so lived by would testify to who I am by the unspoken words articulated by my actions.

Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?

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