Even without Torah stories, Quranic teachings and commandments remain unaffected

Quran's main theme and emphasis is providing reasons and argument for the pillars of faith of Islam.

Quran mentions these stories:

1. For illustration purposes some human examples of the past have been given.
2. To correct the corrupted accounts of such characters/personages mentioned in Torah whom narrators/scribes/clergy had character assassinated.
3. Quran restores their honor by correcting their accounts mentioned in Torah.

Even without these Torah stories, Quranic teachings and commandments remain unaffected.

Your thoughts on the above, please.

Regards

Does everybody agrees on the points mentioned by me in the OP?

One my express fully one's views without hesitation whether one belongs to any religion or no religion.

Regards

Why do you believe the Torah narratives are wrong and supposedly corrected by the Qur'an whereas that one single shred of evidence that you could cite to somehow indicate you're correct? What you are doing is confusing "beliefs" with "facts", whereas they simply are not synonymous concepts.

It would be equally impossible for me to somehow categorically prove that the Torah is correct and the Qur'an is wrong, and I would never take that position for exactly this reason.

paarsurrey said:

Does everybody agrees on the points mentioned by me in the OP?

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No it is severe ignorance.

paarsurrey said:

To correct the corrupted accounts of such characters/personages mentioned in Torah whom narrators/scribes/clergy had character assassinated.

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Yours are more corrupt because of the blatant plagiarizing.

1. For illustration purposes some human examples of the past have been given

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Many are only pseudo history, mythology.

Queen of Sheba for example.

And Noah, Moses, and Abraham.

And if you cannot prove their historicity, your dead wrong again.

Quran restores their honor by correcting their accounts mentioned in Torah.

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Is just another religious book that has corrected nothing.

It just perverted others scripture, and has done so in a very perverse way that requires people like you to make fundamental post due to severe ignorance and fanaticism.


It is on you to prove it is the correct version, not one promoting violence through misinterpretation.

I quote here from:

The Holy Quran: Chapter 12: Yusuf

[12:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[12:2] Alif Lam Ra*. These are verses of the clear Book.
[12:3] We have revealed it — the Qur’an in Arabic — that you may understand.
[12:4] We narrate unto thee the most beautiful narration by revealing to thee this Qur’an, though thou wast, before this, of those not possessed of requisite knowledge.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

*An abbreviation of Arabic phrase (anullahu aalamu) meaning “I am Allah who knows most”.

OOOO

A prophet receives Word of Revelation from the One-True-God and through him the world receives truthful news from the unseen; these may pertain to past, present and future.

G-d is witness of everything that had happened and is happening; so His testimony is most reliable.

Nothing given in the above four verses is mentioned in Torah.

Is it?

Regards

Since the basis for the Quran originates from the Torah, in particular Deut 18:18-20:
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
it would lose its validity since the authority upon which it originated was untrue.

However, if I understand correctly, the Prophet Mohammad could neither read nor write and in such received the writings from an Angel who gave him the written covenant, hence the passage of Isaiah 29:11-12:
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
so therefore, just as with Moses who being learned in all knowledge and wisdom of Egypt, how did he learn how to write the written spoken word since there is no evidence that Egyptians had the ability or used the written spoken word. Instead, the use of hieroglyphics, or the use of symbolic images would indicate that they didn't have the ability to communicate using the written spoken word, in addition they lacked the essential element necessary to begin a written language using the written word.

However, as many that refute the legitimacy of the Quran often cited that Prophet Muhammad did not receive the Quran from the LORD, but from an angel of the LORD, therefore was not a Prophet. Yet there are some that hold that Prophet Muhummad and the Quran represent that third tabernacle spoken of in Matthew 17:4, and Luke 9:33 and Mark 9:5;
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
representing the three Testaments, the Torah, the Gospel and the Quran.

029b10 said:

Since the basis for the Quran originates from the Torah, in particular Deut 18:18-20:
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
it would lose its validity since the authority upon which it originated was untrue.

However, if I understand correctly, the Prophet Mohammad could neither read nor write and in such received the writings from an Angel who gave him the written covenant, hence the passage of Isaiah 29:11-12:
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
so therefore, just as with Moses who being learned in all knowledge and wisdom of Egypt, how did he learn how to write the written spoken word since there is no evidence that Egyptians had the ability or used the written spoken word. Instead, the use of hieroglyphics, or the use of symbolic images would indicate that they didn't have the ability to communicate using the written spoken word, in addition they lacked the essential element necessary to begin a written language using the written word.

However, as many that refute the legitimacy of the Quran often cited that Prophet Muhammad did not receive the Quran from the LORD, but from an angel of the LORD, therefore was not a Prophet. Yet there are some that hold that Prophet Muhummad and the Quran represent that third tabernacle spoken of in Matthew 17:4, and Luke 9:33 and Mark 9:5;
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
representing the three Testaments, the Torah, the Gospel and the Quran.

Click to expand...

Since the basis for the Quran originates from the Torah, in particular Deut 18:18-20:

Click to expand...

That is not the basis of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; that was a prophecy by Moses for his advent so that Jews could recognize Muhammad and accept him.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

That is not the basis of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; that was a prophecy by Moses for his advent so that Jews could recognize Muhammad and accept him.

Regards

Click to expand...

If not mistaken, isn't it written that Muhummad received the Quran from an angel?

paarsurrey said:

Quran's main theme and emphasis is providing reasons and argument for the pillars of faith of Islam.

Quran mentions these stories:

1. For illustration purposes some human examples of the past have been given.
2. To correct the corrupted accounts of such characters/personages mentioned in Torah whom narrators/scribes/clergy had character assassinated.
3. Quran restores their honor by correcting their accounts mentioned in Torah.

Even without these Torah stories, Quranic teachings and commandments remain unaffected.

Your thoughts on the above, please.

Regards

Click to expand...

I find the bible accounts to be very honest. We know there are no perfect people and we know that every person makes mistakes. The bibles accounts of people such as Noah, Abraham, Moses etc show that they too were people like us...they were'nt perfect men.

I dont agree that the quran 'corrected' the accounts about them at all. I believe the bible accounts to be more realistic then the way the quran portrays such people.

Pegg said:

I dont agree that the quran 'corrected' the accounts about them at all. I believe the bible accounts to be more realistic then the way the quran portrays such people.

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I don't often agree with your view, but I believe your statements have merits on both accounts.

The bible do tell stories of people in more realistic fashions, they make mistakes, they sometimes "sin", even prophets and prominent figures, like David and Solomon.

The Qur'an for some reasons, whitewash and sanitised the original stories, making the Qur'an even less believable than the Hebrew and Christian scriptures.

If I have to compare the two or 3 books together (there is no such thing as New Testament in the Tanakh), then I would choose to read either the Tanakh alone, if I just want to concentrate on the Hebrew Scriptures, the combined OT & NT bible.

The Qur'an is poorly written, retold in a haphazard and disjointed manner. The Qur'an had combined well-known stories with well-known legends and fables that Jews never took very seriously. Including these legends and fables just showed that Muhammad learned these legends from Jewish people, and not from angel, or so he claimed.

And like I said earlier, the stories of prophets were done sanitised.

gnostic said:

The Qur'an is poorly written, retold in a haphazard and disjointed manner. The Qur'an had combined well-known stories with well-known legends and fables that Jews never took very seriously. Including these legends and fables just showed that Muhammad learned these legends from Jewish people, and not from angel, or so he claimed.

.

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All the while telling you it is the only true book and that all other teachings are corrupted.

Not to mention the hate messages blown out of proportion.

Further to my post #6 I add more some verses from Quran.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 12: Yusuf

[12:5] Remember the time when Joseph said to his father, ‘O my father, I saw in a dreameleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them making obeisance to me.’
[12:6] He said, ‘O my darling son, relate not thy dream to thy brothers, lest they contrive a plot against thee; for Satan is to man an open enemy.
[12:7] ‘And thus shall it be as thou hast seen, thy Lord will choose thee and teach thee the interpretation of things and perfect His favour upon thee and upon the family of Jacob as He perfected it upon two of thy forefathers — Abraham and Isaac. Verily, thy Lord is All-Knowing, Wise.’
[12:8] Surely, in Joseph and his brethren there are Signs for the inquirers.
[12:9] When they said, ‘Verily, Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, although we are a strong party. Surely, our father is in manifest error.
[12:10] ‘Kill Joseph or cast him out to some distant land, so that your father’s favour may become exclusively yours and you can thereafter become a righteous people.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please indicate as to what teachings and commandments of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted in these verses (and the previous verses) from Torah.

Regards

I add more verses from Quran further to my post #6.

The Holy Quran: Chapter 12: Yusuf

[12:11] One of them said, ‘Kill not Joseph, but if you must do something, cast him into the bottom of a deep well; some of the travellers will pick him up.’
[12:12] They said, ‘O our father, why dost thou not trust us with respect to Joseph, when we are certainly his sincere well-wishers?
[12:13] ‘Send him with us tomorrow that he may enjoy himself and play, and we shall surely keep guard over him.’
[12:14] He said, ‘It grieves me that you should take him away, and I fear lest the wolf should devour him while you are heedless of him.’
[12:15] They said, ‘Surely, if the wolf devour him while we are a strong party, then we shall indeed be great losers.’
[12:16] So, when they took him away, and agreed to put him into the bottom of a deep well, they had their malicious design carried out; and We sent a revelation to him, saying, ‘Thou shalt surely one day tell them of this affair of theirs and they shall not know.’
[12:17] And they came to their father in the evening, weeping.
[12:18] They said, ‘O our father, we sent forth racing with one another, and left Joseph with our things, and the wolf devoured him, but thou wilt not believe us even if we speak the truth.’
[12:19] And they came with false blood on his shirt. He said, ‘Nay, but your souls have made a great thing appear light in your eyes. So now comely patience is good for me. And it is Allah alone Whose help is to be sought against what you assert.’
[12:20] And there came a caravan of travellers and they sent their waterdrawer. And he let down his bucket into the well. ‘Oh, good news!’ said he, ‘Here is a youth!’ And they concealed him as a piece of merchandise, and Allah knew full well what they did.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please indicate as to what teachings and commandments of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted in these verses (and the previous verses) from Torah.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Please indicate as to what teachings and commandments of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted

Click to expand...

Sure Adam, Eve, god, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jesus . All plagiarized.


And every other prophet or character in the bible, your book mentions.



It is not a historical authority, and a single character, and not one credible historian in the whole world! uses your book as a historical source, WHY?

What if I am factually right?


Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".


The Exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about the Exodus recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence.


A number of theories have been put forward to account for the origins of the Israelites, and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins.



Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to the Deuteronomist source,


This means literary creation


That means an exodus of the scale described in the Torah would have been impossible.[


While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated

outhouse said:

Sure Adam, Eve, god, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jesus . All plagiarized.

And every other prophet or character in the bible, your book mentions.

It is not a historical authority, and a single character, and not one credible historian in the whole world! uses your book as a historical source, WHY?

Click to expand...

These were common names in the region; some of them were common ancestors.

The teachings and commandments are different from the names.

Regards

Further to my post #6; I add some more verses from Quran.

The Holy Quran: Chapter 12: Yusuf

[12:11] One of them said, ‘Kill not Joseph, but if you must do something, cast him into the bottom of a deep well; some of the travellers will pick him up.’
[12:12] They said, ‘O our father, why dost thou not trust us with respect to Joseph, when we are certainly his sincere well-wishers?
[12:13] ‘Send him with us tomorrow that he may enjoy himself and play, and we shall surely keep guard over him.’
[12:14] He said, ‘It grieves me that you should take him away, and I fear lest the wolf should devour him while you are heedless of him.’
[12:15] They said, ‘Surely, if the wolf devour him while we are a strong party, then we shall indeed be great losers.’
[12:16] So, when they took him away, and agreed to put him into the bottom of a deep well, they had their malicious design carried out; and We sent a revelation to him, saying, ‘Thou shalt surely one day tell them of this affair of theirs and they shall not know.’
[12:17] And they came to their father in the evening, weeping.
[12:18] They said, ‘O our father, we sent forth racing with one another, and left Joseph with our things, and the wolf devoured him, but thou wilt not believe us even if we speak the truth.’
[12:19] And they came with false blood on his shirt. He said, ‘Nay, but your souls have made a great thing appear light in your eyes. So now comely patience is good for me. And it is Allah alone Whose help is to be sought against what you assert.’
[12:20] And there came a caravan of travellers and they sent their waterdrawer. And he let down his bucket into the well. ‘Oh, good news!’ said he, ‘Here is a youth!’ And they concealed him as a piece of merchandise, and Allah knew full well what they did.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please indicate as to what teachings and commandments of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted in these verses (and the previous verses) from Torah.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

These were common names in the region; some of them were common ancestors.

Click to expand...

Not one was a common ancestor


And this avoids the context completely, your desperate.

The teachings and commandments are different from the names.

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That is what plagiarized mythology is

How come not one credible historian in the world uses your book for history on any of the Israelite characters?


Not one in the world. Why?