Baha'i law: Paying 8000 times the weight of earth in gold to the UHJ for adultery!!!

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

This is the Baha'i law for adultery/fornication:

"God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice nine mithqāls of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence . . . Although the term translated here as adultery refers, in its broadest sense, to unlawful sexual intercourse between either married or unmarried individuals (see note 36 for a definition of the term), `Abdu’l-Bahā has specified that the punishment here prescribed is for sexual intercourse between persons who are unmarried . . . In relation to the application of the fine, Bahā’u’llāh clearly specifies that each succeeding fine is double the preceding one; thus the fine imposed increases in geometrical progression."
Bahā’u’llāh, The Kitābi Aqdas, pp. 200–202.

note: mithqal = 3.6 grams

Unmarried people who engage in acts of sexual intercourse—especially teenagers— will likely frequently perform such acts. The number of times copulation occurs in a year can easily reach one hundred times if this shameful act is performed only twice a week. The amount of gold payable by each of these two people equals to: 3.6 grams * 9 * 2^100 = 41071879447394632608493183854 kilograms, which is fairly equal to 8000 times the weight of the earth.

Just in case you are wondering, the fine will be about 34000 kilos of Gold if copulation is performed only 20 times. We’ll leave it to up to the readers to judge the reasonability and practicality of these luminous laws.

Source: "Twelve Principles: A comprehensive Investigation on the Baha'i Teachings," p. 337.

Sleeppy · Jun 21, 2014

You probably should go bankrupt if you're an adulterer.

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

Sleeppy said:
You probably should go bankrupt if you're an adulterer.

The law is for any form of sex outside marriage not just adultery.

Bankrupt is a great great under estimation.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
This is the Baha'i law for adultery/fornication:

"God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice nine mithqāls of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence . . . ..............

So the fine is about £830, and doubled for a second offence.
So... in a Bahai world they would not execute you for fornication........... correct?

This is a positive step forward for humankind, compared with some theocratic countries. Excellent!
I could debate heatedly with Bahais over many issues, but your first post, on your first thread...... is a bit OTT, no?

You never told us what your religion (or not) is....?
Come to think of it, you have not told us anything about yourself at all....
Strange...........

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

oldbadger said:
So the fine is about £830, and doubled for a second offence.
So... in a Bahai world they would not execute you for fornication........... correct?

This is a positive step forward for humankind, compared with some theocratic countries. Excellent!
I could debate heatedly with Bahais over many issues, but your first post, on your first thread...... is a bit OTT, no?

You never told us what your religion (or not) is....?
Come to think of it, you have not told us anything about yourself at all....
Strange...........

No I didn't speak about myself. Now what does that have to do with a Baha'i law?

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
No I didn't speak about myself. Now what does that have to do with a Baha'i law?

Nothing.
It has more to do with your attack on a Faith.
It causes me to ask myself, 'Why?' . 'What is the background here?' etc.

And then I thought....'Well, why not ask the Thread producer?'

So....... may I ask.... 'Why?'

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

Attack on a faith? I didn't know discussing the beliefs of a faith are tantamount to attacking it. Why don't we just change the name of this website from religiousforums to religiousattacks. Or maybe . . . you are trying to play with words to somehow taint my reputation in my first post? I am not saying that is your intention, but your statements are not very appropriate.
To answer your question: I saw something that was unreasonable in a faith and I pointed to that unreasonable thing.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
To answer your question: I saw something that was unreasonable in a faith and I pointed to that unreasonable thing.

Oh........ that's not a problem.
....something that was unreasonable in a faith.... you found.
I see.....

Now, since we are finding unreasonable things to do with faiths..... and I hate to think of what I would have had to pay the UHJ during a number of decades, if I had lived in a Bahai theocracy, please may I point out some unreasonable things to do with faiths as well?

In many theocratic countries folks can be executed for fornication or adultery. Now that is really unreasonable, wouldn't you say? In fact, recently, I have read about a woman who was executed for leaving her faith...! Wow! Unreasonable or what?

But Bahais would not do that. Bahais would not lay captives down in lines and shoot them for having a slightly different belief within the same faith. They would not execute people for having a different religion to themselves. Bahais are very peaceful people, you know.

Very ...... reasonable.

Now... all you have to do is name any Bahai who has ever been convicted by a Bahai assembly or court of fornication and been sentenced to an £830 fine to be paid to the UHJ!

But I'll let you into a secret.......... you won't find one. Not on this planet!

Because Bahais are very reasonable in that way. Most reasonable. I... me!.... Old-B..... would actually prefer to see a Bahai World than some other types of theocracy that spring to mind. ......

.......... and I am angry with them! You're debating with an angry ol-B when it comes to Bahais.

But I would trust in their humanity any day of the week over xcertain other religions out there.

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

oldbadger said:
Oh........ that's not a problem.
....something that was unreasonable in a faith.... you found.
I see.....

Now, since we are finding unreasonable things to do with faiths..... and I hate to think of what I would have had to pay the UHJ during a number of decades, if I had lived in a Bahai theocracy, please may I point out some unreasonable things to do with faiths as well?

In many theocratic countries folks can be executed for fornication or adultery. Now that is really unreasonable, wouldn't you say? In fact, recently, I have read about a woman who was executed for leaving her faith...! Wow! Unreasonable or what?

But Bahais would not do that. Bahais would not lay captives down in lines and shoot them for having a slightly different belief within the same faith. They would not execute people for having a different religion to themselves. Bahais are very peaceful people, you know.

Very ...... reasonable.

Now... all you have to do is name any Bahai who has ever been convicted by a Bahai assembly or court of fornication and been sentenced to an £830 fine to be paid to the UHJ!

But I'll let you into a secret.......... you won't find one. Not on this planet!

Because Bahais are very reasonable in that way. Most reasonable. I... me!.... Old-B..... would actually prefer to see a Bahai World than some other types of theocracy that spring to mind. ......

.......... and I am angry with them! You're debating with an angry ol-B when it comes to Bahais.

But I would trust in their humanity any day of the week over xcertain other religions out there.

I'll let you know when I want to debate about what x faith does regarding y action in a thread dedicated to that topic. Now you angry ol-B (as you referred to yourself), if you have anything useful or relevant to say please do, or else do not derail the thread!

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
I'll let you know when I want to debate about what x faith does regarding y action in a thread dedicated to that topic. Now you angry ol-B (as you referred to yourself), if you have anything useful or relevant to say please do, or else do not derail the thread!

Derail the thread? Me? I'm a ***** cat.... would never do so.

But you posted in a Religious Debate thread....... which means that folks can debate your point.... your post. I'm debating your post!

And this Old-B says that you picked on the wrong faith with regard to sentences for fornication and adultery, because this offence carries the death penalty in some other faiths and religions.

You see, that's like arguing that parking fines are unreasonable in one land, when in another land they seize your car and crush it....... you see? that would be a comparison.

And this Old-B can't help but compare your point (Bahais have big fines for fornication) to, say, some religions will hang you from a crane jib for fornication.

Now... as comparisons go........ that's a good one.

It makes Bahais look very very very human-kind, wouldn't you say?

By the way.... it's ok to call me Old-B...... I wanted to use the whole word in my RF name, but you know..... that would have been unreasonable....

EDIT: must go out for a bit..... will reply to any post!

fantome profane · Jun 21, 2014

And worth every penny.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

fantôme profane;3812576 said:
And worth every penny.

:biglaugh:

I would have needed to remortgage...... big time!
Anyway.... I asked Mrs B if she would marry me.......... which is probably what Bahais would want Bahais to do....

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

oldbadger said:
Derail the thread? Me? I'm a ***** cat.... would never do so.

But you posted in a Religious Debate thread....... which means that folks can debate your point.... your post. I'm debating your post!

And this Old-B says that you picked on the wrong faith with regard to sentences for fornication and adultery, because this offence carries the death penalty in some other faiths and religions.

You see, that's like arguing that parking fines are unreasonable in one land, when in another land they seize your car and crush it....... you see? that would be a comparison.

And this Old-B can't help but compare your point (Bahais have big fines for fornication) to, say, some religions will hang you from a crane jib for fornication.

Now... as comparisons go........ that's a good one.

It makes Bahais look very very very human-kind, wouldn't you say?

By the way.... it's ok to call me Old-B...... I wanted to use the whole word in my RF name, but you know..... that would have been unreasonable....

EDIT: must go out for a bit..... will reply to any post!

Ok. Ol man wants to debate.

The point of this post was that that this law is unreasonable because it is impractical and it is not possible to pay 8000 times the weight of earth in Gold as punishment.

So, do you have an argument that makes this law practical and possible? Maybe, you have a stash of gold lying around somewhere that weighs 8000 times the weight of the earth?

Do you want to compare this law with another belief or faith whose laws regarding fornication are physically impossible to implement?

Sleeppy · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
Ok. Ol man wants to debate.

The point of this post was that that this law is unreasonable because it is impractical and it is not possible to pay 8000 times the weight of earth in Gold as punishment.

So, do you have an argument that makes this law practical and possible? Maybe, you have a stash of gold lying around somewhere that weighs 8000 times the weight of the earth?

Do you want to compare this law with another belief or faith whose laws regarding fornication are physically impossible to implement?

I don't think it matters whether the gold is available; if the law existed wouldn't you expect to lose everything you do have?-- Sad thing is, people aren't readily aware of the negative consequences already attached to adultery and fornication.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
Ok. Ol man wants to debate.

Yeah.... : hamster :

The point of this post was that that this law is unreasonable because it is impractical and it is not possible to pay 8000 times the weight of earth in Gold as punishment.

Well......... you made your point. You told us!
Are you losing sleep over this? Are you a Bahai who is being naughty, and is worried......... did you get caught?

If so, was it fornication ..... or ...... big G forbid..... adultery? :run:
Look.... if you are a Bahai you could run........ Bahais don't kill apostates, like some religions, so you could leg it and join the Epping Forest Moonlight Satan Fellowship..... now they don't fine you for fornication, Spirit of Dawn. Definitely not.
Impractical? Listen, if our Prime Minister had thought of this at the beginning of his ministry the United Kingdom would be very rich by now. The Conservative party would alrready own the mining rights to Jupiter and Uranus.

So, do you have an argument that makes this law practical and possible? Maybe, you have a stash of gold lying around somewhere that weighs 8000 times the weight of the earth?

I don't need a stash of gold...... well, I could do with a stash of gold..... but I don't need one, because Mrs B is utterly gorgeous, so if I was a Bahai I'd be ok.
Look........ if this law did not exist, would you be absolutely and entirely happy with everything else about Bahai? Is this the only impracticality that's holding you back?

Do you want to compare this law with another belief or faith whose laws regarding fornication are physically impossible to implement?

Well, executing adulterers seems to be very easy for some religions, and that is clearly possible because they do it all the time. But if I was a Bahai, I certainly wouldn't join those other faiths..... I tell you. Me? I would compromise and join the Whitstable Wayward Widows Appreciation Society, that is if Mrs B would let me, which she wouldn't. But, like the Bahais, they don't kill ya.

You a Bahai?

George-ananda · Jun 21, 2014

I would think that after a certain number of times the person would be dismissed from the community.

I find a lot of Baha'i law is kind of a modernization of Islamic law. Baha'i law was written in the mid-19th century in the Islamic world. In strict Islam, wouldn't they be stoned to death?

I think Baha'ullah was envisioning a world with Baha'i morality; not the sex obsessed modern western world.

As an ex-Baha'i I dislike making and hearing disparaging comments were the context is not understood.

spirit_of_dawn · Jun 21, 2014

George-ananda said:
I would think that after a certain number of times the person would be dismissed from the community.

I find a lot of Baha'i law is kind of a modernization of Islamic law. Baha'i law was written in the mid-19th century in the Islamic world. In strict Islam, wouldn't they be stoned to death?

I think Baha'ullah was envisioning a world with Baha'i morality; not the sex obsessed modern western world.

As an ex-Baha'i I dislike making and hearing disparaging comments were the context is not understood.

No, in Isalm, in general, the guy would not be stoned to death.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

George-ananda said:
I would think that after a certain number of times the person would be dismissed from the community.

.... I expect so....

I find a lot of Baha'i law is kind of a modernization of Islamic law. Baha'i law was written in the mid-19th century in the Islamic world. In strict Islam, wouldn't they be stoned to death?

...... yes..... stoned...... but I keep thinking of those pics of people hanging from crane jibs.

I think Baha'ullah was envisioning a world with Baha'i morality; not the sex obsessed modern western world.

...... fair enough.....

As an ex-Baha'i I dislike making and hearing disparaging comments were the context is not understood.

........ as an ex Baha'i, if the criticism is clearly openly 'hostile' I just let my facetious nature take charge and run...... it's my way of handling rage.

oldbadger · Jun 21, 2014

spirit_of_dawn said:
No, in Isalm, in general, the guy would not be stoned to death.

Correct! In Islam the guy usually walks.
All the pics that I have seen of stonings featured women half buried in the earth, and dead or dying..
So in general I guess only the girl would be stoned.

Bahai's seem very gender balanced by contrast..... don't you think?

BruceDLimber · Jun 22, 2014

oldbadger said:
[to the complainer:] You never told us what your religion (or not) is....?
Come to think of it, you have not told us anything about yourself at all....
Strange...........

What?

Surely you can recognize a mindless attack when you see it. . . .

Baha'i law: Paying 8000 times the weight of earth in gold to the UHJ for adultery!!!

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