Christian Soldier

Halcyon · Feb 2, 2006

Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

James the Persian · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

It depends what you mean by a Christian soldier. If you're thinking something along the lines of a Crusader then, no, I don't understand it either. If, on the other hand, your thinking is more, how can any Christian ever fight under any circumstances at all, then I can see it quite easily. There's absolutely nothing wrong in defending your family, friends, neighbours etc. from aggression. In fact I would say that having the ability to prevent such aggression and doing nothing would be a worse sin than fighting would be. We don't have anything like the just war theology of the Roman Catholics but there are soldiers who are Orthodox saints, St. George for instance. He, like many, was a martyr for his faith but clearly saw nothing wrong with defending his country as a soldier.

James

Halcyon · Feb 2, 2006

JamesThePersian said:
It depends what you mean by a Christian soldier. If you're thinking something along the lines of a Crusader then, no, I don't understand it either. If, on the other hand, your thinking is more, how can any Christian ever fight under any circumstances at all, then I can see it quite easily. There's absolutely nothing wrong in defending your family, friends, neighbours etc. from aggression. In fact I would say that having the ability to prevent such aggression and doing nothing would be a worse sin than fighting would be. We don't have anything like the just war theology of the Roman Catholics but there are soldiers who are Orthodox saints, St. George for instance. He, like many, was a martyr for his faith but clearly saw nothing wrong with defending his country as a soldier.

James

Interesting, but wouldn't Jesus want us to use non-violence? I mean, look at Gandi.

Also, the reason i asked the question is that Jesus's death was a form of demonstration (well the way i see it anyway). He was the son of God so he could easily have struck down those who tried to kill him, instead he endured the most agonising punishment the Romans had. Why?
Maybe it was a demonstration to his followers. Love your enemy; don't use violence even if they use it against you.

What do you think?

michel · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Interesting, but wouldn't Jesus want us to use non-violence? I mean, look at Gandi.

Also, the reason i asked the question is that Jesus's death was a form of demonstration (well the way i see it anyway). He was the son of God so he could easily have struck down those who tried to kill him, instead he endured the most agonising punishment the Romans had. Why?
Maybe it was a demonstration to his followers. Love your enemy; don't use violence even if they use it against you.

What do you think?

I equate the 'Christian Soldier' very much with the hymn 'onward Christian soldiers' - and the way I envisage that is a 'group of Christians' pushing against Satan's army. (ie to me it is all allegorical, made even worse by the fact that I am nor 'sure about the existence of Satan) ; which is, I guess a good point for a thread.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

Because we cannot allow other people to show contempt for human life. The best example is Hitler, whose plans for the world were unmistakably evil. As Christians, we had to stop Hitler, and the only way to stop is to fight (compare to C.S. Lewis' The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe).

An excellent example of mixing Christians and Buddhists fighting in a war and at the same time expressing Christ's and the Buddha's morality is the excellent movie To End all Wars. In the movie, the American soldiers fought against the Japanese and were taken as POWs. The American Christians submitted to their Bushido tormentors by relying on their religion. On the other hand, a Buddist captor related his experience to Buddhist teachings because he wanted to be a monk and not a soldier. At the end of the day, the Americans learned how to turn the other cheek and love their neighbor, and the captor truly learned what it means to be a Buddhist.

Buttons* · Feb 2, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Because we cannot allow other people to show contempt for human life. The best example is Hitler, whose plans for the world were unmistakably evil. As Christians, we had to stop Hitler, and the only way to stop is to fight

... that's a terrible example. People knew there were problems in Germany and attempted to stay out of the war for as long as possible. They weren't willing at the drop of a hat to save the people in the concentration camps. At first, everyone glorified Hitler for doing such a good job in Germany.

James the Persian · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Interesting, but wouldn't Jesus want us to use non-violence? I mean, look at Gandi.

Also, the reason i asked the question is that Jesus's death was a form of demonstration (well the way i see it anyway). He was the son of God so he could easily have struck down those who tried to kill him, instead he endured the most agonising punishment the Romans had. Why?
Maybe it was a demonstration to his followers. Love your enemy; don't use violence even if they use it against you.

What do you think?

Yes, I'm sure that Christ would want us to use non-violent means if at all possible. I certainly don't see conflict as a good thing but I do believe that fighting can sometimes be the lesser of two evils.

I agree also that we are to love our enemies and not retaliate aginst those who do violence to us but defending yourself and defending another are two quite different things. I can turn my other cheek but I can't turn someone else's if you see what I'm getting at.

Having said that, we always see killing as bad and something to be avoided if at all possible. As an example, Orthodox canons call for anyone who sheds blood to be barred from the Eucharist for a time, even if this was done in combat (this is not a punishment, though). A priest who sheds blood likewise cannot continue to serve as a priest.

I would note that soldier saints such as St. George are not considered saints because of their fighting (at least none that I'm aware of) but rather for their acts of faith, such as St. George meekly submitting to martyrdom rather than fight against his persecutors in the Roman army.

James

dawny0826 · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

Maybe I'm a doofus but I was always under the impression that "Christian Soldier" isn't a term to be taken literally but is just a term used to describe those dedicated and strong in Christ.

I can't help but think of "Onward Christian Soldiers, marching unto war, with the Cross of Jesus..."

I have always thought of this figuratively...like Christians vs. The World.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 2, 2006

Buttons* said:
... that's a terrible example. People knew there were problems in Germany and attempted to stay out of the war for as long as possible. They weren't willing at the drop of a hat to save the people in the concentration camps. At first, everyone glorified Hitler for doing such a good job in Germany.

Well obviously I disagree that it's a terrible example, and I'm not convinced otherwise by your post. I'm aware that we waited far too long to enter into the war, but the fact that Hitler was evil was nevertheless a religious motivation for our Christian soldiers to fight in the war and for our women to work in factories in the US to support them, and regular people to sacrifice their food, gas, and metal and just about everything else in daily life to stop him.

may · Feb 2, 2006

Halcyon said:
Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

spiritual warfare, not litral warfare, thats why we should have on the complete armour from God, and then we will not get spiritually wounded
"Put on all the armour which God provides, so that you may be able to stand firm against the devices of the devil."EPHESIANS 6:11, The New English Bible.

i believe in tranquility · Feb 9, 2006

a christian soldier is a disgrace to christ himself.

Buttons* · Feb 9, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Well obviously I disagree that it's a terrible example, and I'm not convinced otherwise by your post. I'm aware that we waited far too long to enter into the war, but the fact that Hitler was evil was nevertheless a religious motivation for our Christian soldiers to fight in the war and for our women to work in factories in the US to support them, and regular people to sacrifice their food, gas, and metal and just about everything else in daily life to stop him.

after a long time of attempting to avoid war at all cost

Buttons* · Feb 9, 2006

dawny0826 said:
"Onward Christian Soldiers, marching unto war, with the Cross of Jesus..."

Crusades anyone?

Smoke · Feb 9, 2006

Halcyon said:
Could someone please explain the concept behind a Christian Soldier, it seems like a contradiction in terms to me.
How can anyone who believes in the moral teachings of Christ kill another man?

You are assuming that Christians believe in the moral teachings of Christ.

In my experience, the teachings of Jesus usually take a position of little importance in Christian churches. One symptom of that is that very few Christian churches embrace Jesus' teachings about violence. For some that do, see Peace churches.

i believe in tranquility · Feb 10, 2006

Peace 2 That Bro.^

may · Feb 14, 2006

MidnightBlue said:
You are assuming that Christians believe in the moral teachings of Christ.
In my experience, the teachings of Jesus usually take a position of little importance in Christian churches. One symptom of that is that very few Christian churches embrace Jesus' teachings about violence. For some that do, see Peace churches.

yes and its amazing how those who do stay by the teaching of Jesus are persucuted for it, some countries are worse than others , but Jesus did say that his followers would be no part of the world, so they would not be involved with conflicts in the world .
These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU .... John 15;17-19

Franklin · Feb 20, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Well obviously I disagree that it's a terrible example, and I'm not convinced otherwise by your post. I'm aware that we waited far too long to enter into the war, but the fact that Hitler was evil was nevertheless a religious motivation for our Christian soldiers to fight in the war and for our women to work in factories in the US to support them, and regular people to sacrifice their food, gas, and metal and just about everything else in daily life to stop him.

By that measure, Christians sat idly by and watched Mao kill far far more people in China, and did nothing about it? Tell me, why? Remember Hitler only killed 9 million, Mao on the other hand 20 Million, and less than 40 years later Mao was featured on the cover of time magazine, so tell me friend why did your Christian soldiers sit here and do nothing?

i believe in tranquility · Feb 22, 2006

if you are a soldier and you take life or support the action of taking another human beings life, you are not christian.

Steve · Feb 22, 2006

Halcyon said:
He was the son of God so he could easily have struck down those who tried to kill him, instead he endured the most agonising punishment the Romans had. Why?

Because he knew that he was providing atonement for those who will be saved from Gods wrath and punishment of sin.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

Also i dont usually think of soldier when i hear the term "Christian soldier" as a literal military soldier. It more reflects what paul was talking about when he said

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith." 2 timothy 4:7

dawny0826 · Feb 22, 2006

Also i dont usually think of soldier when i hear the term "Christian soldier" as a literal military soldier. It more reflects what paul was talking about when he said

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith." 2 timothy 4:7

Thanks Steve! I was beginning to think that I was the only one who sees it this way.

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