Ken, I must apologize for not making the connection more clear. That is a fault that I have sometimes, and it can be frustrating.
Ken Brown said:
All sinners, in ignorance, did put Yeshua to death, and this sin can be forgiven, but a believer who KNOWS what their sin did, and then turns back to a deliberate life of sin, is like a dog returning to it's vomit, and it would have been better for them to have never known the way of righteousness, than to have known it, and then turn from it.
Rather than curtly disagree, I point out that Jesus see the Jews as the ladder from God to man, but he now also sees himself as at the top of that ladder, someday. (John 1:51) He refers to himself as seated above that ladder at the right hand of the Father. This is a clear reference to something on one of Daniel's visions, about someone human-like who approaches the throne of the Ancient of Days. Its all very symbolic and I don't pretend to understand it all, but Jesus is referring to that vision as well as Jacob's dream of a ladder. You said that "Sinners put yeshua to death," but I think that is confusing language. It was the Father who was pleased to put him to death. His death was for the purpose of bringing gentiles into the house of God, closer to God. I do not think that gentiles were 'Evil' before Jesus came, because we had consciences and levels of goodness just as Cornelius the gentile did. We did have a judgment against us -- the judgment against Adam which Paul calls the 'Increase of sin'. We did need to be brought back into a higher relationship with God. I object, now, to the way that the Gideons preach 'Gospel' or that altar calls are done in Baptist Churches. I don't like so much subterfuge about what is really happening, and the way that they have of filling people with pat phrases like 'Saved by the blood of the lamb' without any understanding. I've met many people who literally think blood is a magical cleaning agent and am surprised they aren't using it to scrub floors. Therefore when you say 'Sinners killed yeshua' it creates in me a gut reaction, because it is unclear though I do not totally disagree. Sinners sin against themselves, against God and also against everyone.
There are two distinct ways of performing righteousness. One way is to take an animal (or grain offering if you cannot afford the animal) and kill it when you have failed in keeping any of the commands of the Torah (Lev 4...). Once you do this sin offering, you have righteousness because you have accomplished what the Torah told you to do for your sin.
I do not think this has ever been the case. The sacrifices are and yet are not able to perform righteousness. They are like the prayer shawls, special diets and unmixed threads in the clothing, symbolic. First, circumcision must be done in the heart, not just the penis. Secondly it is done on the sacrifice, separating fat from meat, pride from righteous acts. The physical act by itself accomplishes nothing. Amos 5:2 says "Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. " Similary a person cannot merely say "I receive Jesus as personal lord and savior" and have it accomplish anything. They must 'bear their cross, deny themselves and follow Jesus' or his sacrifice is not accepted on their behalf. In other words they must fully participate as a member of his church. They cannot sit by themselves. They cannot say Amen and walk out of the church. (Proverbs 18:1 NKJV) "A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgment."
That way, the way of killing an animal or presenting a grain offering, was the only way the Jew of Paul's day believed in for their pursuit in obtaining righteousness once they had sinned (at least for the most part).
No, because speaking of the sacrifice is speaking of one's own sacrifice. Isaac was the first sacrifice, and every Jew who sacrifices must sacrifice themselves and thank God for providing a substitute. That is how sacrifices are performed. They aren't cold-hearted butchering ceremonies. The attitude is "Thank you for providing this substitute."
"Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name." (Psalm 100:4) That is the only way that sacrifices were performed, because they meant nothing without sincere praise and thanks.
Now, the other way, the way in which a sinner who has failed to keep all that the Torah required for them to do, they could, THROUGH FAITH, believe that Yeshua was THEIR sin offering, and that they did lay their hands upon His Head and did slay Him (with the help of wicked me). By confessing and believing in Yeshua as THEIR sacrifice, they then become DOERS of the Torah with regard to sacrificing for their sin which they committed in ignorance.
I must disagree, because the purpose of a sacrifice is to make a covenant. A covenant connects people together, just as communion connects Christians together. A sacrifice vanquishes sin and makes up for sins through the connections that it brings. (James 5:16) "Therefore confess your sins
to each other and pray
for each other so that you may be
healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." The 'Healing' that James speaks of is the removal of iniquity, the vanquishing of it and the elevation of the Gentile into the house of faith. This cannot be accomplished by saying 'Oh, I accept Jesus into my heart.' No, that is not how it works. You need to be surrounded by righteous people, supporting one another. (This is why some people choose to go live in monasteries, though I don't know if monasteries are a good idea. A monastery is also a kind of isolation.)
He is the Lamb of G-d, and He came to TAKE AWAY our sin. And we are given a free gift or head start in performing righteousness, because we all (through our sin) did slay our sin offering. This was Paul's message about the free gift of righteousness. You INCREASE sin, you INCREASE righteousness (Grace).
I follow what you're saying, but I testify to what I have seen concerning those who accept Jesus sacrifice without joining together with a fervent commitment to doing good as a shared commitment. They have no sacrifice at all. They are unchanged, un-re-generated, not a new creation. Old things have not passed away for them. They are stuck in whatever rut they have dug for themselves, harmed rather than helped by their faith in Jesus which is really unfaithfulness since they aren't doing anything with it.
This belief is credited as righteousness (accomplishing what the Torah required sinners to do for or because of their sin). Once you really see how this works, it demands or forces the sinner to no longer dwell IN sin.
I have already seen how this works, and it doesn't work as advertised. There must be some misunderstanding about what 'Belief credited as righteousness' means. Abraham kept faith with those he had covenanted with. Isaac, his own future, was the sacrifice until a ram was provided. Someone who follows Jesus sacrifice can do no less than deny himself, and that means putting up with a lot of bull from other Christians. This belief, this faith kept, this toil is what is credited as righteousness. Yes it is a free gift, but no its not without cost. Luke 14 is all about the cost of being a disciple of Jesus, the faith required of a disciple.
You INCREASE sin, you INCREASE righteousness (Grace). The more sinners who are sinning, the more you have those who are killing their sin offering (Yeshua), thus performing what the Torah required of them (which is the Righteousness that comes to us from G-d).
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how
much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:17). It is not suggesting that you sin more.
"The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, " (Romans 5:20) We were condemned in Adam (our sin increased), but we were made righteous in Jesus (our grace increased more than our sin). In Adam, the archetype or father of us all, we are guilty; but in Jesus this guilt is overlooked. This is not about personal wrongdoings so much as our nature. Romans 8:3 "...God
did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh"
We cannot put our confidence in the flesh, and that is why Christians must be tightly bound and look after each other. Interdependence is key. We do not increase sin to increase grace. Sin increased in Adam, but grace increases through Jesus so much that it overwhelms sin's negative judgment. By living a covenant relationship through faith in Jesus, you live the the spirit and are no longer subject to the judgment against your flesh. You will, in other words, become spiritual and righteous if you do this.
