Jesus sacrifice and logic

loverOfTruth · Oct 14, 2012

javajo said:
Been away, and going back to work...To answer your question, I believe those who believe in/trust Christ and accept the free gift of salvation will not go to Hell, but those who reject Christ and the free gift of eternal life and do not believe will go to Hell.

But people who came before Christ did not know about Christ and hence did not accept/trust in him - in that case, they should be going to Hell as well. So will the innocent children who bears the sin of Adam and did not get to grow up to have faith/trust in Christ to achieve salvation.

savagewind · Oct 14, 2012

loverOfTruth said:
But people who came before Christ did not know about Christ and hence did not accept/trust in him - in that case, they should be going to Hell as well. So will the innocent children who bears the sin of Adam and did not get to grow up to have faith/trust in Christ to achieve salvation.

Christ is Earth's representative of God's saving power. God's saving power has always existed. It is my opinion that people before Christ's manifestation can believe in him. The Israelites did believe in him, didn't they? But not all did.

loverOfTruth · Oct 14, 2012

savagewind said:
Christ is Earth's representative of God's saving power. God's saving power has always existed. It is my opinion that people before Christ's manifestation can believe in him. The Israelites did believe in him, didn't they? But not all did.

Tell me how would someone believe in Jesus Christ if they don't know about him. I can understand people at all times knows about God's saving power but all people certainly didn't know about Jesus Christ. So either they are going to hell or everyone's going to heaven through God's saving power (without knowing Jesus Christ) and in that case no need for Jesus Christ for salvation. And not to mention that the (sinner) child that didn't grow up to be an adult to believe in Jesus Christ also goes to Hell - otherwise, you don't need Jesus Christ for your salvation. Pick one please - you can't have it both ways.

Tranquil Servant · Oct 15, 2012

For curious minds..
Messianic Prophecy

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

loverOfTruth said:
Tell me how would someone believe in Jesus Christ if they don't know about him. I can understand people at all times knows about God's saving power but all people certainly didn't know about Jesus Christ. So either they are going to hell or everyone's going to heaven through God's saving power (without knowing Jesus Christ) and in that case no need for Jesus Christ for salvation. And not to mention that the (sinner) child that didn't grow up to be an adult to believe in Jesus Christ also goes to Hell - otherwise, you don't need Jesus Christ for your salvation. Pick one please - you can't have it both ways.

The foundation you are standing on is sand. It is men saying to be saved means to be made perfect. To be saved before Y'ushua* means to be led to him. To be saved after Y'ushua means to advance with him.

The confusion about the Anointed One began when he was given a Greek identity by someone ie Jesus Christ. He is a Hebrew ie Joshua Messiah.

loverOfTruth · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
The foundation you are standing on is sand. It is men saying to be saved means to be made perfect. To be saved before Y'ushua* means to be led to him. To be saved after Y'ushua means to advance with him.

The confusion about the Anointed One began when he was given a Greek identity by someone ie Jesus Christ. He is a Hebrew ie Joshua Messiah.

Nice linguistic gymnastics

- where does the Bible say that ?

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

Where does the Bible say what please?

Where does the Bible say his name is not Jesus?
or
Where does it say there is a difference in perspective before and after he came?
or
Something else?

Oh one more thing. I do not work for you.

loverOfTruth · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
Where does the Bible say what please?

Where does the Bible say his name is not Jesus?
or
Where does it say there is a difference in perspective before and after he came?
or
Something else?

Oh one more thing. I do not work for you.

Where does the Bible say : "To be saved before Y'ushua* means to be led to him. To be saved after Y'ushua means to advance with him. "

In other words, does the Bible in any place state 'that people before Christ's manifestation can believe in him' or same for the (sinner) children after Christ ?

If it doesn't, then those people are going to Heaven or Hell regardless of Jesus Christ - regardless of how you want to twist the fact.

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

those people are going to Heaven or Hell regardless of Jesus Christ - regardless of how you want to twist the fact.

You sir are twisting the "facts". Please define "heaven" and "hell" for us according to the Bible with scripture untwisted that support your premise.

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

Moses the shepherd led Israel to the true shepherd.

Matthew 2:6 "'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel."

Moses is not Jesus. Moses is before, then 'Jesus'. Joshua actually, but in English.

loverOfTruth · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
Moses the shepherd led Israel to the true shepherd.

Matthew 2:6 "'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel."

Moses is not Jesus. Moses is before, then 'Jesus'. Joshua actually, but in English.

Just because Moses prophesied that Jesus(another prophet) will come ... does not mean everyone at Moses's time heard of Christ neither did Adam, Noah, Abraham their followers. You can claim that all you want.

loverOfTruth · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
You sir are twisting the "facts". Please define "heaven" and "hell" for us according to the Bible with scripture untwisted that support your premise.

So there's nothing about Heaven and Hell in the Bible ?

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

loverOfTruth said:
So there's nothing about Heaven and Hell in the Bible ?

There is nothing about a place of bliss and reunion called heaven and there is nothing about a place where bad people are unfairly tried called hell.

In the Bible heaven can mean the sky, space and/or the spiritual place where God IS.

In the Bible hell can mean nonlife, spiritual darkness, extreme judgement and I do not know what else.

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

loverOfTruth said:
Just because Moses prophesied that Jesus(another prophet) will come ... does not mean everyone at Moses's time heard of Christ neither did Adam, Noah, Abraham their followers. You can claim that all you want.

The first people seemed to have known about salvation according to Genesis 3:15. Salvation is not and never will be static.

FearGod · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
There is nothing about a place of bliss and reunion called heaven and there is nothing about a place where bad people are unfairly tried called hell.

In the Bible heaven can mean the sky, space and/or the spiritual place where God IS.

In the Bible hell can mean nonlife, spiritual darkness, extreme judgement and I do not know what else.

Why do you think that god won't punish bad people unfairly in hell ?
You are just saying it ,or you are sure about it.
if you are sure,then please show us your evidences,we are tired from keeping our selves from sins .

i don't mean by sins to hurt someone,but such as datings with beautiful ladies .night clubs and that crazy things, WAW.,Jesus had paid the price.

i'll not sleep this night,waiting for your surprize.

savagewind · Oct 15, 2012

OK. MY God suffers no one unfairly. How about that? All the spirits are subject to restriction. No spirit exists that can constrain another spirit EXCEPT The Holy Spirit***. The Holy Spirit is Holy and guards continually The Holy One's holiness. To be not fair is not holy.

LOL I mean only The Holy Spirit has power to restrain another spirit.

Lady B · Oct 15, 2012

FearGod said:
Why do you think that god won't punish bad people unfairly in hell ?
You are just saying it ,or you are sure about it.
if you are sure,then please show us your evidences,we are tired from keeping our selves from sins .

i don't mean by sins to hurt someone,but such as datings with beautiful ladies .night clubs and that crazy things, WAW.,Jesus had paid the price.

i'll not sleep this night,waiting for your surprize.

Don't go lacing up those dancing shoes just yet fear God, Christ did not give us free rein to do all we want with no regard for his authority or laws. The same for what you believe, If you know you can go repent the next day, what keeps you from your sexy ladies night?

FearGod · Oct 15, 2012

savagewind said:
OK. MY God suffers no one unfairly. How about that? All the spirits are subject to restriction. No spirit exists that can constrain another spirit EXCEPT The Holy Spirit***. The Holy Spirit is Holy and guards continually The Holy One's holiness. To be not fair is not holy.

LOL I mean only The Holy Spirit has power to restrain another spirit.

So do you think punishing evildoers whom have their trust on Jesus will be unfair.
and how you could be sure that they will be saved.

FearGod · Oct 15, 2012

Lady B said:
Don't go lacing up those dancing shoes just yet fear God, Christ did not give us free rein to do all we want with no regard for his authority or laws. The same for what you believe, If you know you can go repent the next day, what keeps you from your sexy ladies night?

True repentance can't be prepared for in advance,like saying i'll repent after doing so and so.,it will be as kidding with god.

Lady B · Oct 15, 2012

FearGod said:
True repentance can't be prepared for in advance,like saying i'll repent after doing so and so.,it will be as kidding with god.

I agree, and you must not mistake God's mercy for us as a free pass to sin, This is dangerous and would only show we are not of Christ at all. Because I am saved by Christ's blood does not mean I can go be drunk and naked and free for all, It is more reason I should live a wholesome life in gratitude of his sacrifice. :facepalm:

Now when I fall, I do the same as you do, I ask God to forgive me and get back on the path He sets for me, I may fall many times in my life and Go to him in prayer for forgiveness many times, but He wants us always to perservere and never give up our yearning for a holy life.

I can now see your next question coming....( I am learning your good mind). You want to ask , why do I need constance repentance and seeking of forgiveness when Christ paid it all for ever? Because God asks that all believers repent and seek him in prayer, so that we may draw closer to him and seek his plans for our lives and bear the fruit of our salvation.

Jesus sacrifice and logic

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Was M.I.A for a while

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Freedom Of Mind

Veteran Member

noob

Freedom Of Mind

Freedom Of Mind

noob