jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
All religions are lies, choose the lie that is the least of a lie and that works best for you.
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the right religion
- Thread starter islam abduallah
- Start date
waitasec
Veteran Member
wouldn't you need to know the truth, in order to make such a choice...
and if you knew the truth, why would you want to believe in any kind of lie?
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Ok Let's back up the truth trolley here. You said that these rooms are necessarily different and suited to different people I believe. Pleas explain what you are saying and where you get it from and then we may proceed. I am a little touchy when it comes to people who make claims about the Bible or God to which they have no foundation for. I am not saying they are wrong I am saying the claims are meaningless.
It's been a while but I do not believe that I said that you claimed this.
Why don't you just give a full description of what it is you claim and what it is you base it on. I have no idea where in the bible this information is found. That does not mean it doesn't exist.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
We are supposed to be discussing things in a meaningful way. I do not see how posting assertions based IMO in emotion and at least without the foundation for them posted, add to the subject.
I was referring to what Jesus taught in John 14:2
It was implied in how you responded. You are welcome to clarify if I read you wrongly.
Well, it would actually take a fair amount of development to bring you up to speed on how I understand the Bible. Something of this sort probably should be done in a special thread dedicated for our one-2-one exchanges. If you set it up, I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. If you have other questions about things feel free to probe me on them. I like the chance to learn new things.
Muffled
Jesus in me
:spit:
the irony
then paul was an idiot.
the fact that you were looking for something
was fulfilled once it was received
fail.
Paul was highly educated and his treatise on Christianity in the letter to the Romans is a masterpiece. Probably what you mean is that you think it should be total euphoria or it isn't worth it. I don't see it that way. The people who want euphoria are on drugs and completely waste their lives.
I will grant that. However the reason my expectations were fulfilled was that they were not unreasonable expectations. People who think that God ought to make them wealthy are bound to be disappointed because He never promised to do that.
He did make Solomon wealthy but not because he asked for wealth but because he asked for wisdom to rule his people. It wasn't a self centered request.
Muffled
Jesus in me
A person could get into the Holy City without the right religion but a person who does not accept the right religion proffered will be tossed out into outer space. There will be no room for such a person.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Because God doesn't provide people with multiple options; He gives commands.
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But God and religion are not the same thing. Religion is how people interpret things, which we know can vary.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Yes I know the verse, but I do not see how anything but the idea that places for us to dwell are being built in heaven. I would be suspicious about any elaboration beyong that point since this is a very little attested issue in the bible.
I will just let it drop.
I am not averse to this suggestion however and with all due respect I would have to see that what you believe or understand is derived in a reliable manner. I am very suspicious of the thousands of takes on the bible that contradict two thousand years of scholarly conclusion and plain readings of the texts. If you will elaborate on what methods you employ in exegesis then maybe we can persue it.
You are speaking from a premise that paints a whole different picture than what I see.
There are unalienable rights granted by the Creator. Creator's goal is always to secure men and women to enjoy those to the greatest extent possible. The Creator's enemy doesn't believe we are worthy of these rights and seeks for what he believes would accomplish a "greater good" for humanity. He believes everything can be made okay if only he can take control of everything; therefore, whatever means are necessary to accomplish such are good because the end justifies the means.
The truth is on both sides because some make themselves unworthy because they have a desire and a propensity to infringe upon the unalienable rights of others.
So, all of us get sorted out in a process of separating the wheat from the chaff.
Those least inclined to infringe upon the rights of others are garnered to places of safety (which can include martyrdom) so that they may inherit and live in a better place than where they were removed from that is more suited to their meek and humble natures.
Those who are unworthy by way of being inclined to trespass others, even if doing so as a part of a collective, shall go ahead and be taken captive by the adversary and be divested of those rights. In this sense the adversary performs a very benefical service to Creator to prove out and deliver justice to those who are unworthy.
I've come to understand Creator and Creator's adversary are simply two sides to the same coin. Creator has a right hand and a left hand and they oppose each other in order to accomplish the will of the Creator.
Some systems foster unalienable rights better than others and some are in varying levels of having forfeited their rights. We are all getting sorted out and all of the religions man comes up with are more or less "rooms in the mansion" the Father allows so that the sorting process can be facilitated.
idea
Question Everything
Where is the line between "helping" someone, and "infringing on their rights." in your opinion? It's not just meek and humble - it's about love... if you see someone doing harmful drugs, and you try to stop them because you love them and you don't want them to get hurt - they might claim you are infringing on their rights, that you are "judging them", being prideful, looking down on them for their actions... when to stand by and do nothing but not be loving...humility/meek - those can be defined in many different ways.
Eni Alihm
Member
That's because the right path is the Left Hand Path :slap:there r many religion in the world, but surly there r only one right religion, but how could we reach the right believe, the right path?
Ok, kidding aside . . . why can't we all create our own religion with its own Cosmology and Mythos like the grownups always do? :angel2:
I agree it is not always a cut and dry situation that does often require us to rely upon inspiration from God to know how best to act in a given situation. If a child is sucking off their parents and having total disregard for the rules of order for the home then the child is infringing upon their parents. Now, here's where the two sides of the same coin comes into play.
Even though the parent wants the child to make better decisions and become a happier and healthier person on their own, they are going to shift from being the child's friend to their adversary by taking away that child's agency for abusing it.
Heavenly Father works the same way. He can and does become our adversary.
See Leviticus 26:40-46.
Our way out of the mess we are in right now (being overcome by our enemy and taken for a spoil) is to realize that it is God who is functioning as our adversary for the time being. We will need to be okay with that and humbly accept our punishment.
Unfortunately, there will only be a few people who will pay attention to the fine print in the Mosaic Covenant that spells out the reparations for ancient Israel's breach of it.
idea
Question Everything
I prefer to see it, not as punishment, but as needed experience that will educate us, and give us a bigger perspective... the university of life, without it we could not appreciate what is good.
waitasec
Veteran Member
"accept this now or you will be tossed into outer space"
nothing like a good arm twisting.
quite laughable.
What's stopping you?
idea
Question Everything
I think it's more in the vein of "if you insist on harming those around you, you will be separated from those around you so you can do no more harm" kind of a thing. Is there something wrong with that?
Punishment from a loving Father certainly can and should be seen in that light. But, it's still punishment.
Leviticus 26
23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
Now that the LDS have gathered Ephraim, before their "day of redemption" comes, they are first "delivered into the hand of the enemy". This means that the enemy shall take Ephraim for a spoil for a time, just as D&C 101 warns, before the redemption of Zion comes. Their leaders shall fall asleep (their eyes or "seers" shall be closed) and be frightened and be totally ineffective to keep the hedges from being trodden over by the enemy. This will be the time when the doctrine of "just follow the prophet" could cost you your soul because this will be a time of great evil when nobody can get by on borrowed light. Isaiah saw this time of Ephraim's calamity in chapter 28:1-8.
Isaiah 28
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim...
...
7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
Moroni also had this understanding as he too was shown the same vision of Ephraim in the latter days as Isaiah was shown:
Mormon 8:38
34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.
35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world?
Ok, so, it was a given that Ephraim had some pretty serious baggage that followed him into his resurrection (gathering). And, despite the fact that Ephraim was resurrected in the morning of the first resurrection (which is now) and entered into his exaltation (given keys of the kingdom, etc.), because of his former adultery against Jehovah in being the ring-leader in ancient Israel's apostasy (adultery), he was gathered (resurrected) and placed into his land of inheritance (Jackson Co. Missouri) he was driven out and scattered (destroyed in the flesh) and delivered over to the buffetings of the adversary. This is in keeping with what Joseph Smith Jr. revealed in D&C 132:26. The early saints were scattered and delivered into the hand of the enemy, just as the fine print of the Mosaic Covenant said would happen.
So, this leads to take a very careful look at what it is going to take to work our way through these awful circumstances.
Leviticus 26
40 If they [Ephraim in the latter days] shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
This is the lifeline that very few of Ephraim will have the humility to handle properly.
idea
Question Everything
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
יָסַר
1) to chasten, discipline, instruct, admonish
a) (Qal)
1) to chasten, admonish
2) to instruct
3) to discipline
b) (Niphal) to let oneself be chastened or corrected or admonished
c) (Piel)
1) to discipline, correct
2) to chasten, chastise
d) (Hiphil) to chasten
e) (Nithpael) to teach
יָסַר
1) to chasten, discipline, instruct, admonish
a) (Qal)
1) to chasten, admonish
2) to instruct
3) to discipline
b) (Niphal) to let oneself be chastened or corrected or admonished
c) (Piel)
1) to discipline, correct
2) to chasten, chastise
d) (Hiphil) to chasten
e) (Nithpael) to teach