Belief in God . . .

Dentonz · Dec 20, 2005

Master Vigil said:
We could go on forever, do you know why? Because we both are arguing for and against ideas that cannot be proven or disproven. Your "fact" is as valid as mine. Whether we believe it or not. Your "knowledge about the kingdom of christ" is not based on objective perception, because that "kingdom" does not exist right now. You don't know the future. Nor do I. But I certainly am not going to say something I don't know is fact. That would be ludicrous. I can accept your belief, but only if it stays at belief. Equating belief with fact is completely fallacious.

Thank you, and I accept your belief as well. You're a formidable debate my brother.
Grace and peace.

JesusIsTheWay · Dec 20, 2005

Master Vigil said:
You don't know the future. Nor do I.

What about the prophecies the Bible has? It is filled with them...

pdoel · Dec 21, 2005

john63 said:
That's a good way to feel, but don't you think the spirit of giving and compassion should be in us all the time and not just during December. People are poor and distressed all year round, my friend. I don't need Satan Claus to fill me with a desire to help people. I do it simply because it's the right thing to do.

Yes, I do believe that spirit should be with us all year. But don't forget, the "Spirit of Christmas" also refers to Jesus and his teachings. Again, something that should be with us all year. Is it such a terrible thing to have something each year to remind us?

I find it very very sad that people call him Satan Claus. Something that stands for so much good and brings smiles to many many children.

MdmSzdWhtGuy · Dec 21, 2005

JesusIsTheWay said:
What about the prophecies the Bible has? It is filled with them...

Show me where in the Bible it predicts the winner of the 2006 World Series then. Baby needs new shoes, and I bet I can get a heck of a line in Vegas this early.

The prophesies of the Bible are very similar to the prophesies of Nostradamus, in that they are vaguely written enough so that they are quite easy to ascribe later events to them.

I will show you. I MdmSzdWhtGuy prophesy that within the next 20 years there will be a war!!!! Bow down before my mastery of the dark forces!!!!

Now, lets see how accurate I am.

B.

RAZBERRY · Dec 21, 2005

standing_alone said:
Perhaps, criticism wasn't the word I was searching for, but you have an obvious misunderstanding of evolution and are quick to dismiss it and won't read anything about it. Why? Are you afraid that by learning about evolution that it might weaken your faith?

I think we hit on this one before, but no matter. NOTHING will weaken my faith or make me doubt my Lord. I have been thru more trials in my lifetime than you can imagine, but the Lord didn't leave me. He is my reality.

Believe me, since becoming a Christian, due to immaturity, I've tried to run my own show more than once for different reasons, with disastrous results each time. It simply doesn't work for a Christian. I gave my life to God. It's His and I will serve Him gladly. Do I get impatient or selfish sometimes? Sure. But I've also learned from my mistakes and I pray I do God's will, not my own.

standing_alone said:
But one thing I find funny that you refuse to believe we (in your perspective of evolution) evolved from mud, you're perfectly fine that humans were created out of dust.

I guess, I just think that someone shouldn't call something (essentially) ridiculous (because they don't understand it) and then not take any initiative to understand what it is. But, I'll never get this point across to you, so I give up. I don't have a problem with you believing in creationism, but I have a problem when you claim a theory is ridiculous ("As opposed to the 'big bang' and evolving from mud?" yadda yadda) when you don't even know much about it. Believe in creationism then, but then don't make misinformed comments about evolution.

???? the "dust" quote is not my post. Someone else's. Didn't use the word 'ridiculous' anywhere that I'm aware of.

However, I am well aware I myself cannot disprove evolution, anymore than you, or anyone else, can disprove God.
It's a matter of simple faith. I know Jesus exists. I know He is a part of my very being. I know He loves me and He died for me. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.
(Joh 6:44)No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

Why will some be called and others not? I have no idea, but I do know that God always knew who would accept His gift and who wouldn't. (I also posted on this subject under 'religious debates' and I believe the topic title was 'how can it be a choice', or something like that.)

standing_alone said:
When I was a Christian I believed all that stuff was true, from that God inspired men to write the Bible to creationism to Noah's ark to Jesus and his resurrection. I took the Bible quite literal. But since I wasn't really a Christian, I'm so glad I'm not wasting an hour of my life every week at church anymore.

Fine with me. I like to believe in something that has empiracal evidence. But I know, God is just trying to fool us with all those fossils and stuff.

I don't claim to be Master of Christianity, but there is quite a bit I understand. I can't quote Bible verses off the top of my head (God forbid), but here's what I know: God created the world in six days, on the seventh he rested. Satan was an angel that fell (I believe it was something about having too big of an ego). He tempted Eve to successfully eat fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (a big no-no). Man fell into sin, blah blah blah. God told he would send a Savior. Cain killed Able, blah blah blah. The world became really sinful so God started a flood, he let Noah know so he could build an ark for a pair of every animal. I believe eight people stayed on the ark, blah blah blah. Tower of Babble, God forbade the construction of that, made different languages, blah blah blah. Skipping to new Testement, Jesus is born in Bethlehem (Mary and Joseph had to travel to Bethlehem because "Ceasar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world..."), there was no room in the inn, manger, blah blah blah. Skipping more, Jesus was betrayed by Judas (with a kiss) who ended up hanging himself. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and resurrected on the third day. I'll stop here. Yeah, I don't know alot about Christianity, but I wouldn't consider myself completely ignorant. I probably know more about Christianity than you know about evolution (but you do know more about Christianity than I do - not debating that). Could you tell me what you know about evolution? Just as a non-Christian is ignorant about Christianity, I bet a Christian is rather ignorant about evolution.

Having a general knowledge of some bible stories doesn't make anyone a Christian anymore than having a general knowledge of the human body would make them a physician. Again, it's faith.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I have done nothing to earn or deserve salvation. It's only because of God's love for me that I am saved.

standing_alone said:
But you know, you're right. We are just volleying, so if you don't care to respond, I don't care. I'm kind of sick of this myself. We're not accomplishing anything.

You may be right. I hope not though.

I CAN'T believe man over God. I was born again, therefore, I have a new nature in Christ. Faith in man is not a part of that nature.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

It's very real. God works in my life everyday and I know it. I see the results. Unbelievers refer to such things as coincidence or luck, but in a true Christian's life, there is no coincidence or luck. God controls every aspect of my life, and I am thankful for that. (I messed my life up pretty good controlling it myself.

)

Your serve!

YmirGF · Dec 21, 2005

RAZBERRY said:
I know Jesus exists. I know He is a part of my very being.

Yes Raz, this NON-Christian knows that Jesus is real and that Jesus exists.
This non-Christian does not feel any need to have his "sins" taken away. I'll bear my own cross. Thanks, just the same.

RAZBERRY said:
I know He loves me and He died for me. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

This non-Christian is also aware that Jesus, the joyous Nazarine loves him. I love him back. Can I call myself a Christian. Nope, not a chance. This non-believer does not accept he died for my transgressions. I have no use for the concept and contemptuously reject it outright. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

RAZBERRY said:
(Joh 6:44)No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

This state is 100% accurate. You simply don't get to Christ without an invitation from dad. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

RAZBERRY said:
...a general knowledge of the human body would make them a physician. Again, it's faith.

Nice point. Liked it. Faith is essential, have no doubt. However "Faith" will only take one so far and then it is up to the individual to "make it happen". I will be exceedingly entertained if you can prove me wrong on that one.

RAZBERRY said:
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Well... that was fast. Looks like I am so very wrong about faith, after all, there is that penetrating wisdom from the Bible. Can't really argue the esteemed genius of the writer can I? So much for the words of man, eh. Don't you think it is sad that it is not possible for a single person to come up with a better idea? Almost a tragedy, really. Oh well, it is not like the Bible could be wrong.

RAZBERRY said:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This statement is 100% correct. Razberry, I am not a Christian. Nor will I ever be in the future, although I have been one quite often in the past. Tell me, Soldier of God, how is it that I could know that that statement is 100% correct? The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

RAZBERRY said:
It's very real. God works in my life everyday and I know it. I see the results.

Guess what Raz, I say the same thing.

RAZBERRY said:
Unbelievers refer to such things as coincidence or luck, but in a true Christian's life, there is no coincidence or luck.

I agree there are most certainly no coincidences, although I do enjoy the luck of a fool. Go ahead, call me silly.

RAZBERRY said:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me", makes one a Christian.

This statement is 100% correct.... minus "makes one a Christian."
The fact remains that Jesus was not whistling "Dixie". I know that Jesus is the light and the way and yet I will never call myself a Christian. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

Razberry, try to accept the fact the Christians do not own Jesus, the Christ. He is very much his own man. How do I know this? "The only reason I know this is by the grace of God."

I like that line by the way. One can use it to justify virtually anthing.

standing_alone · Dec 21, 2005

???? the "dust" quote is not my post. Someone else's. Didn't use the word 'ridiculous' anywhere that I'm aware of.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Nope, no one here used the dust quote. That's from the Bible (I believe Genesis chapter three, verse nineteen), and since the Bible is so correct about everythng and cannot be wrong, surely we are made of dust. No, you didn't use the word "ridiculous" to describe evolution, but you have implied that:

As opposed to the "big bang" and evolving from mud?--Yep, I'll accept the intelligent design theory.

However, I am well aware I myself cannot disprove evolution, anymore than you, or anyone else, can disprove God

Nope, can't completely disprove (the Judeo-Christian) God, but can prove it unlikely.

Unbelievers refer to such things as coincidence or luck, but in a true Christian's life, there is no coincidence or luck. God controls every aspect of my life, and I am thankful for that.

I, personally, would rather control the aspects of my life, not have God do it. I don't want to be a mere robot serving God. But, if that's what you prefer, cool with me.

Master Vigil · Dec 21, 2005

JesusIsTheWay said:
What about the prophecies the Bible has? It is filled with them...

Tomorrow the sun will rise, and set again.

Did I just tell the future? Or state something extremely vague? The same with the prophecies in the bible, they are vague enough that those who wish to see them fulfilled can find a number of instances that do. Certainly not a miracle, but simple psychology.

Master Vigil · Dec 21, 2005

Dentonz said:
Thank you, and I accept your belief as well. You're a formidable debate my brother.
Grace and peace.

May compassion and love fill your life. And may your spiritual journey be fruitful.

Jayhawker Soule · Dec 21, 2005

Master Vigil said:
Tomorrow the sun will rise, and set again. Did I just tell the future? Or state something extremely vague?

Actually, the former. There is little vague about predicting tomorrow's sunrise and sunset.

Master Vigil · Dec 21, 2005

HAHA!! I guess your right Jay. But it sure was no miracle.

RAZBERRY · Dec 21, 2005

YmirGF said:
Yes Raz, this NON-Christian knows that Jesus is real and that Jesus exists.
This non-Christian does not feel any need to have his "sins" taken away. I'll bear my own cross. Thanks, just the same.

And what is the price you will pay for your own sins?

YmirGF said:
This non-Christian is also aware that Jesus, the joyous Nazarine loves him. I love him back. Can I call myself a Christian. Nope, not a chance. This non-believer does not accept he died for my transgressions. I have no use for the concept and contemptuously reject it outright. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

Just curious--why do you reject it?

YmirGF said:
This state is 100% accurate. You simply don't get to Christ without an invitation from dad. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

If you believe this, what's the problem?
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

YmirGF said:
Nice point. Liked it. Faith is essential, have no doubt. However "Faith" will only take one so far and then it is up to the individual to "make it happen". I will be exceedingly entertained if you can prove me wrong on that one.
---------
Well... that was fast. Looks like I am so very wrong about faith, after all, there is that penetrating wisdom from the Bible. Can't really argue the esteemed genius of the writer can I? So much for the words of man, eh. Don't you think it is sad that it is not possible for a single person to come up with a better idea? Almost a tragedy, really. Oh well, it is not like the Bible could be wrong.

AMEN! :jiggy: Except for the "faith will only take you so far" thing. That's not faith if you believe that.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:6 But without faith itis impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

YmirGF said:
This statement is 100% correct. Razberry, I am not a Christian. Nor will I ever be in the future, although I have been one quite often in the past. Tell me, Soldier of God, how is it that I could know that that statement is 100% correct? The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

You've been one quite often in the past? What price needed to be paid for your sins, time and again? Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough once? Oops, never mind, I forgot you bear your own cross. How sad for you.

YmirGF said:
I agree there are most certainly no coincidences, although I do enjoy the luck of a fool. Go ahead, call me silly.

Okay, you're silly.

YmirGF said:
This statement is 100% correct.... minus "makes one a Christian."
The fact remains that Jesus was not whistling "Dixie". I know that Jesus is the light and the way and yet I will never call myself a Christian. The only reason I know this is by the grace of God.

"No man cometh unto the Father but by me"...Christ.
So, in your opinion, how does one become a Christian, other than by believing in and and following Christ as Lord and Savior? He said He is the way, the truth, and the life.

Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

YmirGF said:
Razberry, try to accept the fact the Christians do not own Jesus, the Christ. He is very much his own man. How do I know this? "The only reason I know this is by the grace of God."

:biglaugh: I am very well aware that Christians do not own Jesus. Jesus owns me. I am bought and paid for. No servant is above His master. Nor can any man serve two masters.
Mat 6:24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Fluffy · Dec 21, 2005

Nope, can't completely disprove (the Judeo-Christian) God, but can prove it unlikely.

Really? *raises eyebrow*

Radar · Dec 22, 2005

Master Vigil said:
Tomorrow the sun will rise, and set again.

Did I just tell the future? Or state something extremely vague? The same with the prophecies in the bible, they are vague enough that those who wish to see them fulfilled can find a number of instances that do. Certainly not a miracle, but simple psychology.

Actually you did neither. Because the sun does not actually rise or set. The earth spins making it appear to rise in the east and set in the west. This is only preception not an actual occurrence.

Master Vigil · Dec 22, 2005

Radar said:
Actually you did neither. Because the sun does not actually rise or set. The earth spins making it appear to rise in the east and set in the west. This is only preception not an actual occurrence.

HAHAHAHA!!! Foiled again!!!:biglaugh:

YmirGF · Dec 23, 2005

RAZBERRY said:
And what is the price you will pay for your own sins?

I simply do not relate to the concept of punishment and reward. I understand it in its various manifestations, at least, to a fairly good degree. I simply chose to ignore it. That was over 3 decades ago and I have yet to see an ill effect in my life. Obviously Razberry, if your religious scenario is correct, I will have a bit of fast talking to do to the Big Fellah. However, the simplicity of it all is that I do not really DO a whole lot "wrong".
I am no "goody two shoes", but I am a well behaved member of society. I have no criminal record and in fact at ago 50... have never even had a traffic ticket. Am I perfect? Ummmm. Hardly. Perhaps naively innocent is a better way to put it.

RAZBERRY said:
Just curious--why do you reject it?

Admittedly that is a very good question. I cannot answer, without stepping into quicksand. I have no proof, and I am the first to admit it. Call it a very deep seated "feeling". Frankly it is partly like what Islam would tell you. But even they are not accurate. Beyond that, I cannot say. It is only a fool's opinion. However, to keep things in perspective I am fully aware, that I might be wrong. The feeling is so complete, that it is a risk I am willing to take. I suspect "god" knows me rather well by now, and will likely understand.

RAZBERRY said:
If you believe this, what's the problem?

The problem is I do not interpret this the way you perhaps are. It is in fact, rather unlikely. I do not think it is really "god" doing the calling. My experience would seem to suggest otherwise. My distortion, my spin on this is, that long distance caller is one's inner self. Is it god? You tell me.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
To me he is actually saying is to not get hypnotized by the endless chatter in ones mind, and listen with love, with all their heart to their own inner nature, for it is the Lord.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. If you acknowledge the reality of Christ/the inner self, the inner self will indeed offer helpful suggestions. If you follow those suggestion, it will probably make you a pretty happy person. That being said, you can always disregard anything you choose.

RAZBERRY said:
AMEN! :jiggy: Except for the "faith will only take you so far" thing. That's not faith if you believe that.

I personally consider having my faith questioned to be the gravest of insults. Since you can't know that, I can hardly take offence. *Grin* Now you know.

I have no problem with you saying what you think faith is, but do not cross the brink and suppose to tell me what my faith should be. I repeat, Faith will only take you so far, it is up to you to catch the ball and take it from there. It is up to you to make the touchdown. If you want to make it for your god, that is your right. I much perfer to simply do it and let my god vicariously savor the moments with me. What more could any person want to do?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Exactly. Hopes will only take one so far, lest they become wistful daydreams. The whole idea is to set about actualizing your hopes and dreams. Faith is action. You just "know" you can do it, and so, you do. You may scream that is not faith, you dullard, that is intuition. I will sit smirking, thinking. "Yes, it is, isn't it". Faith is intuition. Then again, I could be wrong, it's just a hunch.

RAZBERRY said:
You've been one quite often in the past?

Yeah, sorry, its a rather long story and I'd rather not go there just now.

RAZBERRY said:
What price needed to be paid for your sins, time and again? Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough once? Oops, never mind, I forgot you bear your own cross. How sad for you.

I get that a lot. Hehe. I threw out the concept of sin when I was a rather young person. Sin has no bearing on my view of reality. I cannot therefore comment on the nature of sin, as if it were for example, a reality. It is because I do not believe in sin that I cannot support the concept that the Christ physically died for those alleged sins. The concept becomes like a ballon with a slow leak.

RAZBERRY said:
Okay, you're silly.

Thank you, I get enormous enjoyment from making people smile.

RAZBERRY said:
No man cometh unto the Father but by me"...Christ.
So, in your opinion, how does one become a Christian, other than by believing in and and following Christ as Lord and Savior?"

You're asking me how one becomes a christian? I would think it better to go ask a Chistian. In person I make look at you sternly and say, "Good lord, who would want to become a Christian anyways. Get a hold of yourself." Sorry I have never much approved of Church-ianity.

RAZBERRY said:
:biglaugh: I am very well aware that Christians do not own Jesus. Jesus owns me. I am bought and paid for.

Well Razberry, be that as it may, I have my doubts that Jesus, the Christ would agree. Just call it a hunch. By the way, there are no masters. There are only friends.

RAZBERRY · Dec 23, 2005

YmirGF said:
I simply do not relate to the concept of punishment and reward. I understand it in its various manifestations, at least, to a fairly good degree. I simply chose to ignore it. That was over 3 decades ago and I have yet to see an ill effect in my life. Obviously Razberry, if your religious scenario is correct, I will have a bit of fast talking to do to the Big Fellah. However, the simplicity of it all is that I do not really DO a whole lot "wrong".
I am no "goody two shoes", but I am a well behaved member of society. I have no criminal record and in fact at ago 50... have never even had a traffic ticket. Am I perfect? Ummmm. Hardly. Perhaps naively innocent is a better way to put it.

my belief-- no one is sin-free. Only one man was. He provided the way to God for us by paying for our sin, no matter how minor or great. We can't possibly be good enough to earn admission to God's eternal, holy, sacred presence.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

YmirGF said:
Admittedly that is a very good question. I cannot answer, without stepping into quicksand. I have no proof, and I am the first to admit it. Call it a very deep seated "feeling". Frankly it is partly like what Islam would tell you. But even they are not accurate. Beyond that, I cannot say. It is only a fool's opinion. However, to keep things in perspective I am fully aware, that I might be wrong. The feeling is so complete, that it is a risk I am willing to take. I suspect "god" knows me rather well by now, and will likely understand.

1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Seems you've already taken the first step.

tehe.

YmirGF said:
The problem is I do not interpret this the way you perhaps are. It is in fact, rather unlikely. I do not think it is really "god" doing the calling. My experience would seem to suggest otherwise. My distortion, my spin on this is, that long distance caller is one's inner self. Is it god? You tell me.

Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Joh 10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 But he that is a hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

SEE NEXT POST

RAZBERRY · Dec 23, 2005

CONT. FROM LAST POST
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
(Sorry to post so much, just seemed the story didn't convey the same when I shortened it.)

YmirGF said:
Pro 3:5

YmirGF said:
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
To me he is actually saying is to not get hypnotized by the endless chatter in ones mind, and listen with love, with all their heart to their own inner nature, for it is the Lord.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. If you acknowledge the reality of Christ/the inner self, the inner self will indeed offer helpful suggestions. If you follow those suggestion, it will probably make you a pretty happy person. That being said, you can always disregard anything you choose.

How can God, the Creator, be my own inner nature? I have a new nature--in Christ. It is not of me though. My old nature isn't too awful great, I must say. Jesus has changed my life by giving me a new nature though.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

YmirGF said:
I personally consider having my faith questioned to be the gravest of insults. Since you can't know that, I can hardly take offence. *Grin* Now you know.

YmirGF said:
I have no problem with you saying what you think faith is, but do not cross the brink and suppose to tell me what my faith should be. I repeat, Faith will only take you so far, it is up to you to catch the ball and take it from there. It is up to you to make the touchdown. If you want to make it for your god, that is your right. I much perfer to simply do it and let my god vicariously savor the moments with me. What more could any person want to do?

I sincerely apologize. <I don't say anything maliciously, I promise. hmmm...maliciously--is that even a word?> I was simply stating my own belief. I should have made that clear. To me, saying that faith will only take you so far is putting limits on God. Am I limited? Of course, but with God, all things are possible. I couldn't possibly get to God of my own accord.

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

YmirGF said:
Heb 11:1

YmirGF said:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Exactly. Hopes will only take one so far, lest they become wistful daydreams. The whole idea is to set about actualizing your hopes and dreams. Faith is action. You just "know" you can do it, and so, you do. You may scream that is not faith, you dullard, that is intuition. I will sit smirking, thinking. "Yes, it is, isn't it". Faith is intuition. Then again, I could be wrong, it's just a hunch.

Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

YmirGF said:
Yeah, sorry, its a rather long story and I'd rather not go there just now.

No prob, Bob.

I understand.

YmirGF said:
I get that a lot. Hehe. I threw out the concept of sin when I was a rather young person. Sin has no bearing on my view of reality. I cannot therefore comment on the nature of sin, as if it were for example, a reality. It is because I do not believe in sin that I cannot support the concept that the Christ physically died for those alleged sins. The concept becomes like a ballon with a slow leak.

What about the guy that rapes and kills a 10 year old? Is that sin? Or the person who stands before God and vows to love, honor and cherish, then they're sneaking out to mess around with a local dude. Is that sin? Is the person who loves money more than God sinful? (Though shalt have no other Gods before me.)
Just trying to understand your thoughts on sin.

YmirGF said:
Thank you, I get enormous enjoyment from making people smile.

Rest assured then, you've made me smile, a time or two.

YmirGF said:
You're asking me how one becomes a christian? I would think it better to go ask a Chistian. In person I make look at you sternly and say, "Good lord, who would want to become a Christian anyways. Get a hold of yourself." Sorry I have never much approved of Church-ianity.

Surprising really. I would think you would make a very good Christian.

YmirGF said:
Well Razberry, be that as it may, I have my doubts that Jesus, the Christ would agree. Just call it a hunch. By the way, there are no masters. There are only friends.

Jesus said,
Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Joh 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
Joh 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

Majikthise · Dec 23, 2005

NetDoc said:
They do the same for Christianity and mock us as often as possible.

Oh, you poor things.
Some people think atheists go around skinning babies and worshipping satan(WHICH IS IGNORANT AS WE DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HIS EXSISTANCE.).:areyoucra
These people are ALWAYS christians,... not pagans ,budhists, satanists or any other religion that is based on the slightest modicum of the understanding of other belief systems. So if what you say is true of most people(this mysterious they) then you reap what you sew.

The premise of Santa Claus? Presents from him under the tree. I have yet to see them.

It's all in fun, no eternal damnation or sin to worry about. Anybody can be like Santa(well, maybe not the elves and flying sleigh and stuff )but nobody can ever hope to achieve the percieved perfection of jesus.

The premise of Christianity? Freedom from sin and yourself. This I have witnessed FIRAT HAND

Children sit on Santa's lap or just talk to him and they are as happy as can be even when the rest of their life is $#it. It's all about what you really want to make you happy, with christianity it's about what others expect of you. But if that's what makes you happy, then IMHO it's your right to beleive what you like as long as you keep it to ypurself (obligatry misspelling).

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!:shout

Scuba Pete · Dec 24, 2005

majikthise said:
Oh, you poor things.
Some people think atheists go around skinning babies and worshipping satan(WHICH IS IGNORANT AS WE DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HIS EXSISTANCE.).:areyoucra

So you believe that because a FEW Christians are bigots, it's OK for you to be a bigot? i can't compete with logic so solid.

Belief in God . . .

Member

Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Bodhisattva in Recovery

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

-- untitled --

Well-Known Member

Member

A fool

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Bodhisattva in Recovery

Member

Member

Majikthise

Guest

Le plongeur avec attitude...