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How much bareness = nudity?
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i found your reply to question one more interesting than most others. i take it that if a males nipples are showing that is not nudity and if a females are showing that is nudity or maybe partial nudity. i don't see any difference in shape and form of a female and male nipple, why doesn't the showing of a male's nipple constitute nudity or part thereof?
people don't necessarily dress according to the weather. those who are at the beach claim it is hot and wear so little, but if it's hot for them it is hot for those construction workers too, especially wearing a long sleeve shirt, long pants and a hard hat that kills you. based on my own personal experiences only those who wish to show skin use the hot weather excuse.
i as well as many thousands of other people have worked hard labour under the hot australian sun at temperatures of 50 degrees, some even told me they have worked under temperatures of 55 degrees, thats about 120-130 F. we were not allowed to pull our sleeves up and in fact they designed the long sleeve construction shirts in a way that it makes it quite difficult to roll the sleeves up by having the button area at the wrist stitched.
during summer doctors actually advise people to dress with long sleeves, long pants/trousers and wear broad rimmed hats in order to prevent skin cancer etc. and to use sun block on all other sensitive parts of the body that are not covered such as the face. average temperatures in australia during summer are above 30 degrees (80F) and thats for the colder parts of the country.
and just so you are informed better, both males and females have a dress code, it is very rare to find a practicing muslim male who wears shorts. so i guess i'm one of those people who would go to the beach in jeans lol
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i haven't mentioned anything about why one should or would be ashamed yet, don't jump ahead you'll ruin the thread. :sad4:
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i believe that is the case and so do many others even on this forum, however, no one really wants to admit it. men are not affected as much by this stuff and the need to show their beauty, but women must.
compare the the commercials and ads in which both genders appear separately, women will most likely be wearing very little while men will most likely wear what we would consider normal. there is very rarely a topless man in a car advert but there almost always is a woman in bikini or the like.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i never said that being nude or partially nude equates to what you are saying.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Why does it depend on gender? Men also have mammary glands and can develop breasts. The only difference is a man's chest is usually flat while a woman's is usually not.
Nudity is the body in it's most natural state. As for having even some coverage and being considered clothed, it's a funny aspect of a lingering Puritan heritage in a culture that is drifting away from it. We tend to think everything is ok as long as genitals aren't showing, and for some bizarre reason female nipples. I think it's probably because people have been programed to think such things are dirty, shameful, and things of very strict taboo.
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pwfaith
Active Member
:yes:
I wouldn't consider 70-90% uncovered as nude, they still have 10-30% of their body covered in some form or fashion, particularly the intimate areas. However I would consider it slightly immodest to immodest, depending on what part(s) of the body were included in that 70-90%. Immodest does not necessarily = nude.
Obviously I was brought up with the dominant Australian culture. So the meaning i take from the word 'nudity' is to be completely without covering. This means even lingerie (bras, underwear) is not worn. Or 100% naked.
I do think that our perceptions are subjective and also contextual. This means that in one place or situation, what a person wears might be seen as chaste but wearing the same outfit in another place/situation would be considered unchaste. For example, wearing a bikini at the beach in this culture is considered normal. But if a girl wears a bikini in a restaurant, it would be very unchaste.
This is how psychological life is! There are cultures that allow even less clothing than in Australia. I have been to beaches in Italy where all the women are bare-breasted. I was really shocked and uncomfortable. These were normal Italian beaches. But the few men around hardly seemed to care that all these naked women were around. It was so normal for them. But if an Australian man went to one of those beaches, he would be very excited.
So how we perceive things and how we are affected by them is very much to do with what we are accustomed to. And so something like nudity will be perceived differently by different people.
I'm sure this answer is much longer than necessary :cover:
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Well if your forced to wear long sleeve shirts for hard labor, that sucks. Id suggest the union negotiate that bs
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Don't get mad at me. Its american outlook. I was simply answering the mans question
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Now I am on the desktop, I will try to answer better then just making fun of Australia
I believe Shadow Wolf addressed this. But truthfully it is all because of the sexualization of female Brest. Its taboo to be in public and women and topless. Its practically every puberty teen males day dream.
But as an example of how whats acceptable and whats no varies from country to country, in Africa, some tribal women don't cover them up.
Its all cultural.
I believe Shadow Wolf addressed this. But truthfully it is all because of the sexualization of female Brest. Its taboo to be in public and women and topless. Its practically every puberty teen males day dream.
But as an example of how whats acceptable and whats no varies from country to country, in Africa, some tribal women don't cover them up.
Its all cultural.
And again, that sucks and sounds very harmful to wear such on the beach, especially when working hard labor. But American women and men usually dress down when going to beach to "catch some sun" and swim in the sea. They usually do not need PPE because they are there for relaxation.
Again, that sucks. In America, I have yet to see such from blue collar workers. Usually a t-shirt and jeans are good (with PPE)
Id like some source of this. Because it sounds like bs. In fact, I always here Doctors suggest lighter wear considering the danger of over heating.
That sucks. So what, you swim in jeans?and just so you are informed better, both males and females have a dress code, it is very rare to find a practicing muslim male who wears shorts. so i guess i'm one of those people who would go to the beach in jeans lol
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
I said "some Islamic societies" because I know not all are so orthodox. I herd Turkey is very relaxed and their women and men are allowed to dress down.
What do I think that they might share this attribute of extreme modesty? Because of the traditional modesty laws of old. Society as a whole, especially in the West, has gone through a lot of change. It wasn't that long ago that it was scandalous to just show your belly button.
By the way, I was honestly trying to vaguely make a point, in which I expanded a bit more on a recent post to Eslam, that modesty and whats acceptable and unacceptable is a cultural thing. (And of course I know some Orthodox share similar attitude. Like Haredi)
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i think it is a state of mind. its how we personally view another persons body. If you see a man or woman with her arm or leg showing, and you instantly think of sex/nudity, there is something wrong with how you personally see things.
I do agree that some forms of dress are too revealing though and this is about how i personally view it. However, the location and purpose of what is worn has a bearing on things too. If im at the beach, and I see lots of men and women in nothing more then a bikini or speedo's, i dont think anything of it because in this setting, its perfectly fine to take off all other clothing when you go for a swim.
but if i saw man or woman in the shopping center buying groceries dressed in swimming clothes, then that is not appropriate. So all factors need to be taken into account.
What about a person lying naked on an operating table? perfectly acceptable.
cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
Most the people I have met who told me they were naturists I wouldn't want to see naked anyway, it would give me nightmares and take years of therapy to get over it:sad4:
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Nudity is defined as being without clothing. One can expose certain parts of their body, but they aren't nude unless they are naked.
In a free society, it's perfectly acceptable to express yourself through clothing - meaning you can wear anything you want as long as you are not exposing your genitals to others. It's deemed innappropriate for a woman to expose her nipples in public, unless she's breast feeding and there are some people who take issue with that. It is polite to cover up when breast feeding.
I dress for occasion and comfort.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
What does it have to do with his opinion about Islamic societies, which ARE more conservative on this issue, much more conservative than mainstream Jewish society, which the ultra-orthodox do not represent. the ideas of the ultra orthodox draw plenty of anger from mainstream Jewish society, sometimes especially on issues of sexuality and gender.
the beaches of Tel Aviv have topless women and abundance of bikini, or the recent mass nude photography of Israelis in the Dead Sea, these are things you will not see in the Islamic world.
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