waitasec
Veteran Member
seems to me thief, you have a problem with the existence of opposing views...
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My God Why have you forsaken me
- Thread starter idav
- Start date
seems to me thief, you have a problem with the existence of opposing views...
Thief
Rogue Theologian
waitasec
Veteran Member
your goal post repositioning of not being allowed to speak about ones view on religious and or spiritual matters if one does not adhere to that way of thinking
fyi...
this isn't north korea.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I never said you're not allowed.....
and this is not Korea...agreed...
What was that you were saying about the Carpenter? (topic)
Daviso452
Boy Genius
I don't see it as fair warning. Did you believe Harold Camping? Doubt it. But why did so few people believe him? Because it was a stupid claim with nothing backing it up, except for apparent numbers in the bible that translated to May 21st.
If Jesus was trying to help us, he did a ****** job.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Finally... a straight forward answer.
See? you CAN draw a line.
It might not serve you well...later on....but you can do it.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You will need a fresh thread topic to support this discussion....
But I will ask anyway...
What did the Carpenter fail to do for you?
waitasec
Veteran Member
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I see it as not being important to theological discussions. There are plenty of non-Christian theologians. As far as dysfunctional you actually have a multitude of denominations of Christians and theologians and it's obvious by how splintered they all are that it's not important to be a believer in order to critique scripture.
While it is true that I'm not a believer it doesn't preclude me from critiquing your scripture. I can debate the history, the traditions and the translations all the while disbelieving the fantastical claims made in your scripture. You choose to believe all of that.
The thread question was a general one raised to anyone who wishes to comment. Had the OP simply wanted the opinions of Christians she would have placed in the proper area. I am finding more and more here at RF when non-believers challenge your scriptures, preconceived notions and your (in general) lack of knowledge concerning biblical history, belief and the obvious fallibility of your scripture then someone dusts off the old 'you're not a believer so you shouldn't be commenting' rhetoric.....
I'm sure you can, and very well indeed. But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience.
You see, there is a two part component to humanity; the spirit and the flesh.
Yes, we have a spirit but one that had become lost, lost spiritually speaking, meaning non renewable.
Became lost in the creation process of which we have no fault in the matter.
Enter: Jesus.
Only God Himself as one of us, fleshly, human could offer us redemption by sacrificing only one, verses all of us to oblivion.
Thus salvation comes to all mankind save none.
However, we are faulted/responsible for our own behavior and subject to consequences.
How does this relate to the OP subject?
Simple. Jesus as a human, must willingly offer Himself as God's offering of sacriffice for the whole of humanity, even for all unbelievers.
God's sacrificial lamp (Jesus) was predicted in the scriptures and all that Jesus had to endure in the process, even the silence period at the cross.
A picture of Jesus being God's offering is in the story of Abraham and Issac.
Here is a ref to silence being a period of time: ISA 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.
JESUS HAS DIED ON THE CROSS, THIS 1,000 YEAR DAY SEEN AS ALIVE 930 YEARS AS ADAM, AND DEAD 70 YEARS AS JERUSALEM. THE THOUGHTS OF CHRIST PERISH FOR THE HOUR AND FORTY MINUTES. THEN HE IS REVIVED, AND REMEMBERS TYRE. "THE DAYS OF ONE KING" IS THE DAY OF THE CROSS. TYRE SINGING LIKE A HARLOT IS JESUS LOVING ALL MANKIND.
You see, one can read the bible cover to cover and not see what I just explained.
The bible can only be seen to reveal truth via the Holy Spirits help.
Ref: Jer 31:34 And they shall (Future)teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
And who are the "they"?
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
What does that mean? 1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Which goes along with the following verse: Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Contest bible scriptures all we want, for the "meat" of understanding is foreign as like a child who is still being fed milk.
"Silence" is a lack of spiritual understanding for a time, but afterwards, revelation.
Blessings, AJ
You see, one can read the bible cover to cover and not see what I just explained.
The bible can only be seen to reveal truth via the Holy Spirits help.
Ref: Jer 31:34 And they shall (Future)teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
And who are the "they"?
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
What does that mean? 1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Which goes along with the following verse: Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Contest bible scriptures all we want, for the "meat" of understanding is foreign as like a child who is still being fed milk.
"Silence" is a lack of spiritual understanding for a time, but afterwards, revelation.
Blessings, AJ
waitasec
Veteran Member
sure you can.
how convenient that what we cannot validate is beyond being validated...
heard of circular logic...?
the rest of you post is proselytizing
as it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
be careful...
Daviso452
Boy Genius
He failed to give a warning worthy of note. To me, Jesus was a man who was able to make many people follow what he said. That does not make what he said any more believable. To say he gave us fair warning is like saying every other doomsday spewer gave us fair warning. Is it fair if it is not believable in the slightest?
waitasec
Veteran Member
interesting that all other doomsday spewers are set a part from jesus...
it'll be interesting to see why...the birth of a new thread i see, do you mind if i take that liberty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467
I'm sure you can, and very well indeed. But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience.
sure you can.>>>waitasec
Let me rephrase that: "But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience". to read: But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without via the rebirth experience" is what I meant to say.
Thanks for pointing that out.
One is needed over the other!
Explaining my view on the subject via scripture as a way of looking at it in a different light is proselytizing?
Is anybody's view presented not proselytizing?
All sides should be heard for ah picking.
As for the subject, yes very much to do with the silence factor, but, Like I said quote "you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without via the rebirth experience" for the revelation of spiritual matters in the bible texts.
Blessings, AJ
waitasec
Veteran Member
you realize you are being presumptuous...
curious,is that a prerequisite of being a believer? seems to me that is a common thread amongst you folks.
i had a supposed rebirth experience....many many times...
yes it is proselytizing as it had nothing to do with the thread...
fyi, it looks like a desperate attempt for pleading...
Thief
Rogue Theologian
It's in the parables.
He was describing life after death.
And....
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you is fair warning again.
The angels will receive you as you have received others.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And the flip side of that coin would be shallow accusations of lying....or proselytizing?
Supporting a spiritual belief is difficult enough...as is.
Assuming I need scripture and history would be too much.
Lack of agreement....allows others to label me as a liar?....a hypocrite?
Same thing happened to Jesus.
A prerequisite? Absolutely!
By Jesus' own words: Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Who amongst all of humanity had seen/see the kingdom of God save Jesus?
Being Jesus was the first, all subsequent believers in Him shall also see the kingdom of God via the rebirth experience spiritually.
"Marvel not"because only the spirit of God can reveal it us.
Ref: Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Babes as in newborns spiritually.
Supposed but not really experienced? What part was holding you back?
Blessings, AJ
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I can not debate "faith", this is true.....
This is a faith based claim. I would not be able to argue against it.
Another faith based claim.
Another faith based claim.
Do you see your predictable pattern unfolding here?
Not according to your old testament.
Not according to the words of the biblical Yeshua himself.
John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Two separate entities with two separate wills.
"Whole of humanity".....?
Matthew 15:24
......I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Willing sacrifice..?
Luke 22:36
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica] "But now," he said, "take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one![/FONT]
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou will.
Matthew 26:42
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Matthew 26:44
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
:sorry1: